ophir 20c-a-1-y OUT OF STOCK???

[Trevor]

Are you serious? Read the whole listing.

Link: Ophir Laser Measurement 20c A 1 Y Sensor Laser Power Meter LPM 1706111 New | eBay

But here's a paste of it with the relevant portion bolded:

* PLEASE READ ALL OF CLC's TERMS & CONDITIONS PRIOR TO BIDDING.　　 *

* BUYERS WITH 0 FEEDBACK MUST CONTACT US BEFORE PURCHASE.　 *



This listing is for one OPHIR 20C-A-1-Y Sensor Laser Measurement Head Power Meter LPM 1706111 NEW

Sensor is BRAND NEW in the BULK PACKAGE BOX.

Manufacturer: OPHIR Photonics - Newport Corporation

Model: Laser Measurement 20C-A-1-Y Sensor Laser Power Meter LPM

Part #: 1706111



COMES AS SEEN IN THE PICTURES.
Product is as shown in the picture.


Item will include the following as shown in the pictures (1x Unit, and 1x power cable.)

These are usually setup powered by a pair for 9V batteries and used to make a 5W LMP laser power meter.

They are brand new from Ophir. Any calibration required is buyers responsibility.

Comes with a 14 Day DOA Warranty, which does not cover calibration if required.

These are sold as hardware only.

For product details, please see the manufacturer PDF page here: http://www.ophiropt.com/laser/pdf/20C-SH_20C-A_20C-UAU.pdf

Please ask questions before purchase.

We do not specialize in these laser products, so we will do our best to give you a correct answer.



Buyer is responsible for return shipping if necessary.

We do not ship this item international.

See? We're not making anything up. I don't know if you haven't read the listing or what, but it's been right there the whole time.

They're NOS items, and in metrology you need to recalibrate from time to time. Some will be fine, some might not be. The ebay seller is aware of this.

Trevor

 

[lasersbee]

They're NOS items, and in metrology you need to recalibrate from time to time. Some will be fine, some might not be. The ebay seller is aware of this.

Trevor

Are YOU serious...
Read all of my previous post...

I've spent quite some time discussing this exact wife's tale
with the Coherent Applications Engineer prior and after buying
our Coherent FieldMax TO from them.

I was specifically told that our LPM would need Yearly re-calibration
when used in a production or daily environment time frame.

When we asked... we were also told that if we put our New LPM
in a sealed drawer with normal ambient humidity and temperature
and do not use it at all it would still be calibrated correctly after
many years of not using it.

It seems that daily use and dust and sensor deterioration are
some of the normal factors that cause de-calibration.... not Time...

Even our LaserBee products that are used sparingly are still
calibrated after a few years (4) as you yourself have stated...

I can't see why the New OPHIR heads are any different...

BTW... NOS is NEW stock that has been manufactured previously
but is NEW. How much previously is not known since these OPHIR
heads are still being produced...



Jerry

 

[Trevor]

When we asked... we were also told that if we put our New LPM
in a sealed drawer with normal ambient humidity and temperature
and do nit use it at all it would still be calibrated correctly after
years of not using it.

These NOS Ophir sensors are not guaranteed to have been stored in that sort of environment.

Glad to see you finally read the listing...

Trevor

 

[lasersbee]

These NOS Ophir sensors are not guaranteed to have been stored in that sort of environment.

Glad to see you finally read the listing...

Trevor

How do you know....??

:thinking::thinking: You really need to read ALL of post #80..

Not just select words to try to prove a point....:beer:


Jerry

 

[Trevor]

:thinking::thinking: You really need to read ALL of post #80..

Not just select words to try to prove a point....:beer:


Jerry

I did read all of it.

EDIT: How do YOU know they were stored in that kind of environment? The screws on the front of many of the heads are corroded, which can be a marker for storage in an environment that wasn't too favorable. Can YOU prove they were properly stored? The fact of the matter is - we can't know that for sure. We don't know the whole history of these heads. So it's a good idea to check them for calibration even if they're "NEW."

There is well-documented variation in Ophir sensors coming from this source, including variation outside the calibration spec in "new" sensors. I expect you check them and recalibrate if necessary before selling them, and you're just playing dumb here, as usual.

I can't prove you recalibrate yours, and you can't prove that the variation doesn't exist, so I really don't see the point of continuing to debate it.

All I know is that I have encountered "NEW" sensors that needed adjustment to be accurate.

Oh, and about the "professional LPM spec," that's what's listed on the Ophir 20C datasheet. In case you hadn't noticed, it's a "professional" device. :beer:

Trevor

 

[lasersbee]

I did read all of it.

EDIT: How do YOU know they were stored in that kind of environment? The screws on the front of many of the heads are corroded, which can be a marker for storage in an environment that wasn't too favorable. Can YOU prove they were properly stored? The fact of the matter is - we can't know that for sure. We don't know the whole history of these heads. So it's a good idea to check them for calibration even if they're "NEW."

There is well-documented variation in Ophir sensors coming from this source, including variation outside the calibration spec in "new" sensors. I expect you check them and recalibrate if necessary before selling them, and you're just playing dumb here, as usual.

I can't prove you recalibrate yours, and you can't prove that the variation doesn't exist, so I really don't see the point of continuing to debate it.

All I know is that I have encountered "NEW" sensors that needed adjustment to be accurate.

Oh, and about the "professional LPM spec," that's what's listed on the Ophir 20C datasheet. In case you hadn't noticed, it's a "professional" device. :beer:

Trevor

OMG.... The OPHIR 20c-A head is NOT a Laser Power Meter.
It is an Amplified Thermolpile Head... You of all people should
know that.

Show me that scientific documentation if it exists...

As I've stated many times before... ALL the OPHIR Heads we
have bought from CLCEN1 in the past were well within the
+/- 3% OPHIR specs or better and did not need any re-calibration.

The only thing we have done to the heads is zero them after a
15 minute stabilization period. We have never needed to
re-calibrate any OPHIR heads from CLCEN1...

The few Heads from LPF members that were off spec still are and are in a zip locked bag in a cabinet for safe keeping.


Jerry

 

[Trevor]

OMG.... The OPHIR 20c-A head is NOT a Laser Power Meter.
It is an Amplified Thermolpile Head... You of all people should
know that.

Show me that scientific documentation if it exists...

As I've stated many times before... ALL the OPHIR Heads we
have bought from CLCEN1 in the past were well within the
+/- 3% OPHIR specs or better and did not need any re-calibration.

The only thing we have done to the heads is zero them after a
15 minute stabilization period. We have never needed to
re-calibrate any OPHIR heads from CLCEN1...

The few Heads from LPF members that were off spec still are and are in a zip locked bag in a cabinet for safe keeping.


Jerry

It's a professional device for laser power measurement. That's really not up for debate.

You've seen the variation of Ophir sensors discussed many times right here on the forum, and you have quoted the table that I generated a number of times. Remember when my CUBE was found to be outputting a hair over 73mW and the sensors I had (and your LaserBees) were confirmed accurate, while the questioned un-tampered Ophir sensor was proved to be reading high?

The sensors I've encountered since then have, for the most part, tested accurate with an expected level of variation within spec. However, a few had larger variation outside the spec. That's the nature of a bell curve. Those were recalibrated at high power with a thermally stable laser, so as to fall within their original spec.

Can you prove these sensors were always kept in a climate-controlled storage facility for their entire life? No, you can't, and you just dodged that point entirely. Variation caused by adverse storage conditions is entirely possible, as confirmed by your conversation with Coherent.

I see you now admit to adjusting the Ophir heads. You can't prove you haven't encountered heads with a variation large enough to require recalibration (which you are equipped to do), and no one can prove that you have. I believe if I did what you just admitted to, you would accuse me of "tampering." Just saying...

If you take nothing else from my post, take this:

I saw your comment on ARG's profile; we are not claiming these sensors are inaccurate in order to sell LPM's. We don't make any money on the Ophir sensors we bundle with Rubicons. We also sell just a bare Rubicon for use with an Ophir sensor that someone already has. We have absolutely NO reason to lie to the forum about the variation present in NOS Ophir 20C-A sensors.

Trevor

 

[Livinloud]

Who is going to come out unscathed?
op:

 

[Trevor]

I have to agree...

Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it will be the end to a debate which, if all of us approached as scientists, would have never existed in the first place. :tired:

Trevor

 

[ARG]

I do not appreciate the rep you left me Jerry; I have NEVER told a lie to sell my own products.

However, you have lied to sell your products. In more than one instance.

Now since I know you'll make stuff up about me lying if I don't post evidence of you lying to your customers here is evidence of one instance.

What imaginary crashing issues are you referring to...:thinking:
You've mentioned squat to me... or are you just brown nosing
to attack our full featured bug free EagleEye software...:thinking:

Even though I have reported bugs and your own customers have reported bugs:

The EagleEye data capturing program on the Laserbee CD is in need of an update.
On Windows XP there were no problems running it, however when moving to Windows 7, on a mini i5 tower I experienced several crashes and hangs.

You have been told there are issues by many people, yet you still claim "bug free..."

My 3.2w Laserbee LPM has some bugs -
1. cannot export/load the chart, i have to take screenshots or pics before the LPM interface crashes.
2. The main power reading only reads incorrectly, missing a digit. It displays 54mW though the readings on power graph generated is 540mW.

So many things are awful about the LaserBee USB. The software is buggy under Windows 7, the USB interface is sketchy and intermittent

You've been told by myself, others and your own customers that you have bugs, and you still try to sweep them under the rug to sell your LPM's.
You are a liar Jerry, and you continually demonstrate that in majority of your posts, this thread is another such example.

I have never tried to do any such thing, unlike yourself.

I have always been a big supporter of people making their own LPM's, and sourcing their own parts.
Evidence:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f70/users-thoughts-their-5w-lpm-systems-82197.html#post1181312

I've even made Open Source ARGMeter LPM's for other people to DIY without ANY monetary benefit to me; in fact I lost money on that project. It has always and will always be a fun project for me to work on and doing a service to the community. I've told you before and I will tell you again, I am not here on LPF for monetary benefit exclusively (unlike yourself) I am here to have fun and build all sorts of things, lasers, projectors, LPM's, drivers.

Do you contribute to the community other than spamming your advertisement in the welcome section and trying to get people to buy your LPM's by arguing with every other LPM maker?

Posting on a forum *as a merchant* with such a large signature is unprofessional.
Attaching an additional signature advertising your company to every post you make is downright rude.
I know you're just trying to advertise to the new users whenever you post in the welcome section and increase your SEO, but come on, it's just a single forum. This forum won't rank too highly in google's search algorithms because of all the banner and text ads. Besides, the time you spend on this forum could be spent on developing and sourcing components for new products.

Quit posting on the threads of potential competition to try to discourage people from making their own LPM. It's pretty obvious.
Actually, quit posting on any LPM threads that do not directly mention your company. If you have a good product, others will do that for you.
Putting down individuals(as you are a company) does not look good for your company.

Here is mine.... show me yours...

I do not appreciate your attack on my word. I am a man of my word. When I said I used a Coherent fieldmax, I used a coherent fieldmax.

Name, date stamp, fieldmax, PM30, Rubicon PCB.

As you can see I am a man of my word.

















Now that you are done insulting me, and I am done defending myself let's stick to the science; okay?
Resorting to insults and non-scientific evidence only shows everyone that you don't have any real argument.















Trevor has already said pretty much everything that needed to be brought to your attention, but I will add this.

All of the OPHIR sensors that I have bought from CLCEN1 have
been within OPHIR specs of +/- 3% or better. The only ones that
were off spec by a larger than expected percentage were the
ones we bought from LPF Members that didn't want them anymore....

None of my heads came from LPF members, and there have been ones as high as 7% and as low as 6%. (Tested against the fieldmax)


@Jerry Ophir heads (as per Ophir) should be recalibrated every year for accurate measurements. After sitting in a storage facility for more than a year it would not be unreasonable to expect that a small portion of the heads haven't retained the calibration.
Without knowing the conditions they were stored in we cannot assume they are calibrated perfectly.

Maybe you just haven't had enough Ophir heads to find the few that are uncalibrated?
Maybe where you sourced your Ophir heads from was stored in better conditions than the ones I got?
There are plenty of factors in play here.

 

[lasersbee]

I do not appreciate the rep you left me Jerry; I have NEVER told a lie to sell my own products.

However, you have lied to sell your products. In more than one instance.

Now since I know you'll make stuff up about me lying if I don't post evidence of you lying to your customers here is evidence of one instance.

Even though I have reported bugs and your own customers have reported bugs:

You've been told by myself, others and your own customers that you have bugs, and you still try to sweep them under the rug to sell your LPM's.
You are a liar Jerry, and you continually demonstrate that in majority of your posts, this thread is another such example.

I have never tried to do any such thing, unlike yourself.

I have always been a big supporter of people making their own LPM's, and sourcing their own parts.
Evidence:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f70/users-thoughts-their-5w-lpm-systems-82197.html#post1181312

I've even made Open Source ARGMeter LPM's for other people to DIY without ANY monetary benefit to me; in fact I lost money on that project. It has always and will always be a fun project for me to work on and doing a service to the community. I've told you before and I will tell you again, I am not here on LPF for monetary benefit exclusively (unlike yourself) I am here to have fun and build all sorts of things, lasers, projectors, LPM's, drivers.

Do you contribute to the community other than spamming your advertisement in the welcome section and trying to get people to buy your LPM's by arguing with every other LPM maker?

I do not appreciate your attack on my word. I am a man of my word. When I said I used a Coherent fieldmax, I used a coherent fieldmax.

Name, date stamp, fieldmax, PM30, Rubicon PCB.

As you can see I am a man of my word.

Now that you are done insulting me, and I am done defending myself let's stick to the science; okay?
Resorting to insults and non-scientific evidence only shows everyone that you don't have any real argument.

Trevor has already said pretty much everything that needed to be brought to your attention, but I will add this.

None of my heads came from LPF members, and there have been ones as high as 7% and as low as 6%. (Tested against the fieldmax)

@Jerry Ophir heads (as per Ophir) should be recalibrated every year for accurate measurements. After sitting in a storage facility for more than a year it would not be unreasonable to expect that a small portion of the heads haven't retained the calibration.
Without knowing the conditions they were stored in we cannot assume they are calibrated perfectly.

Maybe you just haven't had enough Ophir heads to find the few that are uncalibrated?
Maybe where you sourced your Ophir heads from was stored in better conditions than the ones I got?
There are plenty of factors in play here.

:crackup:
Wow... you guys are like a school of Piranhas...
One thinks he smells blood and they automatically all attack...:crackup:

@ ARG...

How can you be surprised that you received a Neg Rep from me...:thinking:
Did you honestly believe that I would ignore you pi$$ing on my boots..:thinking:

Contrary to popular belief this thread is about the lack of a long term
reliable source for more cheap OPHIR heads and the insinuations by
you that the only correctly calibrated OPHIR heads are supplied with
YOUR LPM and not about my company's quite good Customer Service
over the past +30 years.

This is the reason for the Neg Reps from the new
TrevArgometer Posse.:undecided:
Yes.. you now have a new moniker...:eg:



You stated that CLCEN1's Lasers are not Calibrated.

Quite right.

The ones from CCLEN are sold as hardware only, uncalibrated. The ones forum members have sold have been recalibrated, or verified.

I reiterate... All the many OPHIR Heads I had purchaed from CLCEN1 were
within OPHIR's stated +/- 3% accuracy.
I would consider your statement either contrived up or a blatant lie.

Then there was this Quote that you changed recently... luckily I quoted
your passage in my post #80 or you would no doubt accuse me of lying.

I used a NEWER NIST traceable coherent fieldmax to get my numbers. The numerous Ophir heads I have ranged from 6% low to 12% high. All with the original factory calibration.

Most were correct, but not all.

Then you quote this in your last Post...

None of my heads came from LPF members, and there have been ones as high as 7% and as low as 6%. (Tested against the fieldmax)

So which is it when you posted your personal testing info...???
Either it is the former quote and the latter quote was contrived or
a lie or it is the latter quote and the former quote was contrived or
a lie.

Either way you lied about your tests...

In that same quote you state (Tested against the fieldmax).
Ant reasonable person proud of his NEWER Coherent FeildMax TO
would say "tested against MY feildmax".

Why have you blacked out the Item Number and Serial Number
of the Head...
What are you trying to hide and why are you being so deceptive..???
I would think you would be proud to show off a NEW Nist Traceable LPM.

Are you sure that that Coherent FeildMax TO is New and was
purchased by you..???
Sorry to be a doubting Tomas but I'm not convinced...

BTW... I was not insulting you... I'm was just going by what you
post and tried to put some truth to it.

And I was not attacking your word... I was questioning it since
you never showed any proof of your claims.

@Jerry Ophir heads (as per Ophir) should be recalibrated every year for accurate measurements. After sitting in a storage facility for more than a year it would not be unreasonable to expect that a small portion of the heads haven't retained the calibration.
Without knowing the conditions they were stored in we cannot assume they are calibrated perfectly.

Maybe you just haven't had enough Ophir heads to find the few that are uncalibrated?
Maybe where you sourced your Ophir heads from was stored in better conditions than the ones I got?
There are plenty of factors in play here.

All the OPHIR Heads that I received from CLCEN1 were sent in a sealed
Plastic bag. I would assume that no dust would have deposited onto the
Sensor's active surface as witnessed by me under closer examination.

As the Coherent Application Engineer confirmed... If an LPM and/or Sensor
is not used the calibration will not change. It will only change under use.
The heads do not need to be stored in a hermetically sealed box.
Common sense would dictate that just keeping the dust off the Sensor's
surface by keeping them in a sealed plastic bag and not subjecting them
to underwater tests would keep them accurate over time.

I've had quite a few heads pass through the shop in the past 3 years and
the only ones that were uncalibrated came from LPF sellers. I still have the
last three uncalibrated heads fr5om LPF sellers in a cabinet for future reference.

BTW... how many OPHIR 20C heads have you personally tested...


Jerry

 

[Trevor]

I don't feel like doing an itemized reply, but this is getting really absurd.

Just because YOU (claim to) have not encountered variation does NOT mean it doesn't exist.
Just because WE (claim to) have encountered variation does NOT mean it is widespread or affects every surplus Ophir head.

Just because we have seen it, doesn't mean it's impossible that you haven't. Be scientific. Be logical.

Now, let me reiterate - we make absolutely no money from bundling Ophir heads with Rubicons. We don't care if an Ophir head is bought from us or not. Just looking at the pricing model would tell you that. In fact, we actually discount the Ophirs and net less money on the meters we bundle them with. It would do us no good at all to lie about variation we've encountered.

I don't see why you don't understand that.

With regards to the differing numbers, inconsistency does not necessarily point to intentional falsehood. In fact, inconsistency is often a product of recalling a test from memory...

With regards to the FieldMax, why is he required to give you the serial number? You have provided no such proof of YOUR purchase and ownership - why do you require it of others? I expect if he did provide the serial number, you would STILL claim that the LPM must be miscalibrated. No matter what we do, you're still going to attack and lie. It's just a fact of life for anyone here who builds LPM's.

It has been since 2009.

With regards to the storage conditions of the Ophir sensors, you or I have no way or proving how long they have been sealed in those bags or whether they have been sealed in those bags their entire life. We don't know, and no one can prove anything. What we DO have is known cases of variation outside +/-3% accuracy in NOS Ophir sensors.

For a scientist, that would mean variation is possible.

Instead, you decide that this must mean that we're lying.

Trevor

 

[ARG]

The new
TrevArgometer Posse.

Name calling?

Jerry, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this thread is for facts. Scientific evidence.

Name calling will get you nowhere.

-2 rep. You earned it.
Please consider addressing this thread with a level head and facts.

:crackup:
Wow... you guys are like a school of Piranhas...
One thinks he smells blood and they automatically all attack...:crackup:

I told you to keep it to the facts.

No insults. Keep it to yourself. As I said above, insulting people shows everyone that you don't have an argument based on fact.

Please keep it scientific. Facts only, no personal attacks.
The insults get you nowhere and they only clutter up this threads.

Facts.

Not accusations.

Not made up facts.




Okay?

the only correctly calibrated OPHIR heads are supplied with
YOUR LPM

As I said above, majority of the heads are calibrated correctly. I don't know where you got the "only" from.

Please do not make things up and try to pass them off as facts.

Again, stick to the facts.

I reiterate... All the many OPHIR Heads I had purchaed from CLCEN1 were
within OPHIR's stated +/- 3% accuracy.
I would consider your statement either contrived up or a blatant lie.

Majority of the heads I purchased were within 3% as well.

Again, did you miss this part of the seller description?

They are brand new from Ophir. Any calibration required is buyers responsibility.

Comes with a 14 Day DOA Warranty, which does not cover calibration if required.

These are sold as hardware only.

They are sold as hardware, without calibration.
However, as I said above, majority of the heads maintain the factory calibration and are still in the +/-3% spec.

What doesn't add up here?
Please show me how this is a lie. The seller says it himself.

Then there was this Quote that you changed recently... luckily I quoted
your passage in my post #80 or you would no doubt accuse me of lying.

Then you quote this in your last Post...

So which is it when you posted your personal testing info...???
Either it is the former quote and the latter quote was contrived or
a lie or it is the latter quote and the former quote was contrived or
a lie.

I remembered the accuracy incorrectly, I found the paper where I wrote the numbers and corrected my post. There is nothing wrong with correcting a lapse in my memory.

As my edited post states, as high as 7% and as low as 6%.

Please do not accuse me of lying, it was a mistake. Those happen.

Again, stick to the facts.

Why have you blacked out the Item Number and Serial Number
of the Head...
What are you trying to hide and why are you being so deceptive..???
I would think you would be proud to show off a NEW Nist Traceable LPM.

I don't want you to know the unique serial number of my products. It's that simple.

Are you sure that that Coherent FeildMax TO is New and was
purchased by you..???
Sorry to be a doubting Tomas but I'm not convinced...

Am I sure it was purchased by myself :crackup:
What kind of a question is that?

No matter what I give you you're going to keep asking for more. I have proven what needs to be proven.

I use a NEW, NIST traceable, Coherent fieldmax TO with a PM-30. Purchased DIRECT from Coherent, and CALIBRATED.

That is all you need to know. I am a man of my word.

All the OPHIR Heads that I received from CLCEN1 were sent in a sealed
Plastic bag. I would assume that no dust would have deposited onto the
Sensor's active surface as witnessed by me under closer examination.

As the Coherent Application Engineer confirmed... If an LPM and/or Sensor
is not used the calibration will not change. It will only change under use.
The heads do not need to be stored in a hermetically sealed box.
Common sense would dictate that just keeping the dust off the Sensor's
surface by keeping them in a sealed plastic bag and not subjecting them
to underwater tests would keep them accurate over time.

Trevor said it better than I.

Just because YOU (claim to) have not encountered variation does NOT mean it doesn't exist.
Just because WE (claim to) have encountered variation does NOT mean it is widespread or affects every surplus Ophir head.

 

[Jacob32123]

Name calling?

Jerry, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this thread is for facts. Scientific evidence.

Name calling will get you nowhere.

-2 rep. You earned it.
Please consider addressing this thread with a level head and facts.

While we're on this subject, I would like to share a message I received from lasersbee on 7/29/13 after I left him a -rep.

What the F$%k are you mumbling about...
Get your facts straight...

Everything I said about ARG is true... All the truth
is in the Thread... Read it.

Besides... he's no competition at all.

Jerry

I personally agree that name calling is not scientific evidence, and is uncalled-for.

In the interest of full disclosure, lasersbee later apologized.

I agree with you that my opening statement may have been
a bit extreme.
It could have been attributed to the Neg Rep Rape I found on
my Rep Profile early in the morning. I apologize for that.

 

[norbyx]

Personally I just can't get you guys .... You are worse than two gals on their period.... Grow up both of you and stop fighting over and over again....

Personally I know you are great forum members but you seem to argue time and time again on your products and on your knowledge. If I was a moderator I would start deleting posts of you two that bring nothing to the forum but to see you fight. Why don't you start your fights in your own PMs?

Is it much to ask to keep the forum a bit clean?

 

[Trevor]

This "problem" doesn't exist in any other market on LPF. Driver designers don't go at each other's throats, machinists aren't always arguing and infighting, and laser builders all happily coexist.

For some reason, LPM's have been a huge bone of contention since early 2009.

It's dumb, and this issue shouldn't even exist.

Trevor