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Looking to buy a Dragon Lasers 50mw 589nm Spartan

Encap

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I contacted cni a few months ago. 30mW 589nm module $540 80mW 589nm module $910

You can get a 10mW 589nm CNI module from dragon Lasers for $370.
Interesting.


Sorry to tell you so but that laser is old and used, Also being in the UK doesn't mean much since the UK left the EU in jan this year so it will still pass through customs as a package from the US would. Also, That price is too steep since I can get a Brand new 80mw yellow module from dragon lasers for 300GPB and the overall build cost would be way lower than the 400 you want for it and I would be getting a brand new laser in a custom metal host of my own design. Edit: You also mention in that thread that the laser also has an issue with mode hopping on start-up sorry but that further makes me believe it doesn't worth the price listed, I wish you the best of luck in the sale but I am not interested. Clarification: Even if the laser has low hours and is in a bairly used condition I cannot be sure on the condition of its internal components and crystals due to age. Further clarification: I know that the UK has left but the trading relationship within the EU will stay the same for a period but I have found out that Greek custom can be quite... Picky.
I saw that Dragon Laser had a CNI 589nm 10mW which Dragon Lasers calls a PH module at $370
Looks like they have changed it to 50mW at same $370 stability 20%, 3VDC versions 26mm X 55mm which take 2 C 1.5V batteries.
CNI also makes circular drivers that are 3.6VDCVDC for 1X 18650 so perhaps one can be ordered that way for you if you want.
The 589 Spartans all took 1 X 18650

The CNI web site doesn't show either of the DL modules any longer in product listing, only a black PGL-H1 26mmX 100mm. and a similar smaller one that is max 30mW http://www.cnilaser.com/Laser-Module.htm

If you order one from Dragon Laser be careful to nail down what the actual specs are --what you can expect to receive.
 
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Gianakakis

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Interesting.




I saw that Dragon Laser had a CNI 589nm 10mW which Dragon Lasers calls a PH module at $370
Looks like they have changed it to 50mW at same $370 stability 20%, 3VDC versions 26mm X 55mm which take 2 C 1.5V batteries and they make drivers that are 5VDC for 1X 18650

The CNI web site doesn't show either of the DL any longer a products on;y a black PGL-H1 26mmX 100mm. http://www.cnilaser.com/Laser-Module.htm

If you order one from Dragon Laser be careful to nail down what the actual specs are --what you can expect to receive.
Possibly old stock, On that note I didn't get that I thought the actual output voltage of the driver PCB was 3v not that it needed 3v furthermore this gets more confusing since they specify 2 powers for the same module. unknown.png
Anyways my point is that 500$ is kind of too much for a 5-year-old laser that is barely over spec and can be built brand new for cheaper.
Sidenote: I'll have to think about how to get this into a host working then. I suppose I could change out the driver or possibly use a small buckboard next to it to give it constant 3v from a 18650 since I have space as it's going to be a 28mm at least in OD and 26 ID.
Edit: It seems like the module that DL offers is custom made since the length differs a lot from the cni module of the same power.
 

Encap

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Possibly old stock, On that note I didn't get that I thought the actual output voltage of the driver PCB was 3v not that it needed 3v furthermore this gets more confusing since they specify 2 powers for the same module.
Anyways my point is that 500$ is kind of too much for a 5-year-old laser that is barely over spec and can be built brand new for cheaper.
Sidenote: I'll have to think about how to get this into a host working then. I suppose I could change out the driver or possibly use a small buckboard next to it to give it constant 3v from a 18650 since I have space as it's going to be a 28mm at least in OD and 26 ID.
Edit: It seems like the module that DL offers is custom made since the length differs a lot from the cni module of the same power.
The older PGL-H-589 dats sheet did show 2 possible power supplies--3VDC and 3.6VDC---that is the input V to the driver not a constant current spec to the diode which would be a given VDC and mA to the to the diode--many of their hand helds used 2 X C batteries and some used 1X18650 See: http://www.cnilaser.com/PDF/PGL-H-589.pdf

Anyway you can see from this 532nm PDF that they mean by 3VDC power is 2X C batteries and the 3.6VDC driver power is for 1 X 18650 http://www.cnilaser.com/PDF/PGL-III(-C)-532.pdf

Better ask about that aspect to be sure--- if it needs to be ordered could easily be ordered either --your choice I would guess.

Edit: the 5 VDC driver is a different type --rectangular not for a handheld.
I meant in the above 2 drivers --a 3VDC for 2X C batteries and a 3.6VDC for 1 X18650. Looks like all the 589nm PLG -III-C models took 1X18650. At 20% stability don't expect a new one will not mode hop until it warms up--is a very temperamental and complicated/difficult to make DPSS wavelength which is partly why nobody else makes one.

Is confusing as CNI has been selling 589nm hand held and modules since 2005 for 15 years and has a whole array of different specs for different iterations and revisions of hand helds and module drivers over the time span.

Looks like all the 589nm Spartans took 1 X 18650
 
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Gianakakis

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THe older PGL-H-589 dats sheet did show 2 possible power supplies--3VDC and 5VDC---that is the input V to the driver not a constant current spec to the diode which would be a given V and a given mA to the to the diode--many of their hand helds used 2 X C batteries and some used 1X18650 See: http://www.cnilaser.com/PDF/PGL-H-589.pdf

You can see from this 532nm PDF that they e=mean 3V is 2X C batteries http://www.cnilaser.com/PDF/PGL-III(-C)-532.pdf

Better ask a bout that aspect also.
Yes, I know that the diode needs a constant current source, not CV I just thought 3v was the minimum voltage for the driver. It seems kind of weird to me that the voltage must be a specific value indicates that they are possibly using an Op-amp based driver as the cheap 303 lasers do. If you give it more voltage it overshoots on current.
 

trencheel303

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Sorry to tell you so but that laser is old and used, Also being in the UK doesn't mean much since the UK left the EU in jan this year so it will still pass through customs as a package from the US would. Also, That price is too steep since I can get a Brand new 80mw yellow module from dragon lasers for 300GPB and the overall build cost would be way lower than the 400 you want for it and I would be getting a brand new laser in a custom metal host of my own design. Edit: You also mention in that thread that the laser also has an issue with mode hopping on start-up sorry but that further makes me believe it doesn't worth the price listed, I wish you the best of luck in the sale but I am not interested. Clarification: Even if the laser has low hours and is in a barely used condition I cannot be sure about the condition of its internal components and crystals due to age. Further clarification: I know that the UK has left but the trading relationship within the EU will stay the same for a period but I have found out that Greek custom can be quite... Picky. Also, I'd bet that if you where to contact dragon lasers they could sell you a spartan using the module they offer for cheaper since 400GPB equals about 500$ which is 100$ more than the original spartan in the original packaging brand new. Clarification: the module they currently sell (PH series) Is the exact same one used on the spartan.
I never said you had to agree to the price I named, only that it was the price I had chosen. A market is formed when a buyer and seller agree to the terms and form a deal... my price may seem high, but I don't see a raft of people willing to sell their Spartans at the same price or less than they bought them for.

Good luck in your endeavour though, it seems you have this corner of the market totally sussed out and a solution in the making.

As an aside; yes it mode hops. A small amount that is only noticeable if you're looking for it. Don't be so ridiculous. It's a highly complicated DPSS process in a handheld laser. I suspect they all do this to an extent; whether everyone who sells one is as absolutely honest about its running I can't possibly comment on (or perhaps they realise the buyer's market is largely aware of and appreciates the foibles of DPSS).
 

Gianakakis

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I never said you had to agree to the price I named, only that it was the price I had chosen. A market is formed when a buyer and seller agree to the terms and form a deal... my price may seem high, but I don't see a raft of people willing to sell their Spartans at the same price or less than they bought them for.

Good luck in your endeavour though, it seems you have this corner of the market totally sussed out and a solution in the making.

As an aside; yes it mode hops. A small amount that is only noticeable if you're looking for it. Don't be so ridiculous. It's a highly complicated DPSS process in a handheld laser. I suspect they all do this to an extent; whether everyone who sells one is as absolutely honest about its running I can't possibly comment on (or perhaps they realise the buyer's market is largely aware of and appreciates the foibles of DPSS).
See, that argument is inherently false cause some of the spartans are much more stable than others. Think of it as the cpu silicon lottery where even the same CPUs from the same batch can have major differences in stability Also >it's a highly complicated DPSS process in a handheld laser. That's no excuse an expensive laser like that should have no such issues again it's mainly because of manufacturing errors case and point other spartans have no such issues in that extent.
Edit: I have to give you points though for being honest and straight forward best of luck with your sale! I'd bet somebody here is looking for that original DL host it just isn't me. Anyways also something else you could do is find a member in the UK to meter yours so you know exactly how over spec it is if its way overspec the price goes up :).
 
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Encap

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See, that argument is inherently false cause some of the spartans are much more stable than others. Think of it as the cpu silicon lottery where even the same CPUs from the same batch can have major differences in stability Also >it's a highly complicated DPSS process in a handheld laser. That's no excuse an expensive laser like that should have no such issues again it's mainly because of manufacturing errors case and point other spartans have no such issues in that extent.
Edit: I have to give you points though for being honest and straight forward best of luck with your sale! I'd bet somebody here is looking for that original DL host it just isn't me. Anyways also something else you could do is find a member in the UK to meter yours so you know exactly how over spec it is if its way overspec the price goes up :).
I made a correction to my post #67---meant 3VDC driver takes 2X 1.5V C Batteries and the 3.6VDC driver is powered by 1X18650. Looks like all the Spartans took 1 X18650

treencheel303 made good points ---without temperature control and serious driver control CNI 589nm modules and hand helds are only 20% stability and temperamental as treencheel303 and many others have mentioned.
Is not a question of "expensive laser" should or shouldn't as 589 nm modules and hand helds even at 20% stability are difficult/complicated and expensive to make and fine tune/tweak , novel, and only CNI makes 589nm modules to begin. I have never heard os anybody other than CNI has ever making and offering 589nm hand helds or modules---anyone who ever offered same was just reselling CNI made items.

As has been noted/said before about 593.5 and 589nm: "greatly varying with temperature and usually mode-hopping if they get too hot or too cold. That is because such a complex process may require temperature stabilizers and active cooling, which can't be mounted into a small-sized host ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pointer#Yellow

Many members report mode hoping of 589nm pointers---here is one member who reported mode hopping + tested the module at different currents: https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/got-my-589nm-laser-dragonlasers-589nm-50mw.97387/
He also later says in the thread about the driver current "I just quick measured the input current. It is using 1.66A. Somehow I have expected more. Edit: The laser threshold is at about 0.55A. "

You are 100% right about he lab style 589nm CNI lasers are very controlled in all aspects--they are all available with Stability <1%, <2%, <3%,<5% stability and you could expect less or no mode hopping however they say <10 min warmup time--considerable warm up time
They don't even offer any <10% much less <20% lab 589nm lasers.

Would guess you can't expect that the hand held or modules will not ever mode hop especially while warming up to operating temperature a relatively high output current driven module for max mW laser output.
If you do except no mode jhopping you had better spell out no mode jhopping at the outset when ordered and perrhaps they can make you a stability <10% or even <5%
Expect that for CNI to cherry pick one that turns out that way if there are a lot of 589nm modules in stock or if CNI can fine tune and tweak one to that stability it is going to take time and money for people at CNI to do, if possible and they want to bother for a 1 piece order.
Expect, if they will even do it, it will be sold by CNI for a premium price, not $370, probably more like the $910 Brendon7358 mentioned or above.

Good luck and be careful to nail down every aspect if you order a module from Dragon or CNI so what you get meets your expectations and if not you can return asying did not meet description/specs and ask for another better one.
 
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cmak

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I have a Spartan 589 I'm considering selling and I am in the UK. Those of you who are regulars here may roll your eyes given I was looking to sell previously and then chickened out on account of emotional attachment, but the thing is it hasn't come out of its box in all those months since and I have a photography hobby that is threatening now to turn into a career, so I am finally ready to let go of my yellow - for real this time.

I bought it from a trusted member here, gismo, several years back. He metered it for me and I can't remember whether it was overspec at either 60 or 80mW but it was definitely over the advertised 50. He has now since gone AWOL and the pictures of the LPM graph he posted went down the photo bucket hole I think, so you'll have to trust me on this. The laser has seen virtually no use if I'm honest and is still on its original red AW battery which holds a charge well. I think posting a battery within the EU (UK hasn't left just yet...) might be OK but I'm honestly not sure I'd risk it.

The kicker is I'm not willing to let it go for a song, these are as far as I know now impossible to buy new and while I never use it I am still rather attached to it and will not see it go for less than what I think it's worth, so we'd be looking at around £400 if I was to sell it. That's the price I name and I'd be happy to discuss but it won't be moving downward by much I'll say that.

I'll repost a thread eventually but thought I'd offer it to you first especially as you're not US based which is a big plus getting this precious item through customs without it being destroyed.

Editing to add link to my original chickened out sale thread with photos https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/no-longer-for-sale.106050/#post-1579354

And yes, I was asking for less then, but that is then and this is now...
Lame cause I’m a citizen of The United States of Lamerica :cautious:

Customs would surely swallow the thing whole, yes?
 

Gianakakis

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I made a correction to my post #67---meant 3VDC driver takes 2X 1.5V C Batteries and the 3.6VDC driver is powered by 1X18650. Looks like all the Spartans took 1 X18650

treencheel303 made good points ---without temperature control and serious driver control CNI 589nm modules and hand helds are only 20% stability and temperamental as treencheel303 and many others have mentioned.
Is not a question of expensive as 589 nm modules and hand helds even at 20% stability are difficult/complicated and expensive to make and fine tune/tweak , novel, and only CNI makes 589nm modules to begin. I have never heard os anybody other than CNI has ever making and offering 589nm hand helds or modules---anyone who ever offered same was just reselling CNI made items.

As has been noted/said before about 593.5 and 589nm: "greatly varying with temperature and usually mode-hopping if they get too hot or too cold. That is because such a complex process may require temperature stabilizers and active cooling, which can't be mounted into a small-sized host ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pointer#Yellow

Many members report mode hoping of 589nm pointers---here one member who reported mode hopping + tested the module at different currents: https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/got-my-589nm-laser-dragonlasers-589nm-50mw.97387/
He also later says in the thread about the driver current "I just quick measured the input current. It is using 1.66A. Somehow I have expected more. Edit: The laser threshold is at about 0.55A. "

You are 100% right about he lab style 589nm CNI lasers are very controlled in all aspects--they are all available with Stability <1%, <2%, <3%,<5% stability and you could expect less or no mode hopping however they say <10 min warmup time--considerable warm up time
They don't even offer any <10% much less <20% lab 589nm lasers.

Would guess you can't expect that the hand held or modules will not ever mode hop especially while warming up to operating temperature a relatively high output current driven module for max mW laser output.
If you do except no mode jhopping you had better spell out no mode jhopping at the outset when ordered and perrhaps they can make you a stability <10% or even <5%
Expect that for CNI to cherry pick one that turns out that way if there are a lot of 589nm modules in stock in stock and if any turned out that way ot they can fine tune and tweak one to that stability it is going to take time and money for people at CNI to do.
Expect, if they will even do it, it will be sold by CNI for a premium price, not $370, more like the $910 Brendon7358 mentioned or above

Good luck and be careful to nail down every aspect if you order a module from Dragon or CNI so what you get meets your expectations and if not you can return asying did not meet description/specs and ask for another better one.
I am considering swapping the driver out for an ACS1500SE when I get it cause that would mitigate the problems I have with planning the build. Also on the stability issue I know how yellow dpss lasers are made encap, to say the least, I have learned a lot of stuff before returning to the forum anyways that specific module seems to be using Freq Summesion to make that yellow as I don't see a separate driver for another LD. Anyways the issue with mode hoping for me is that it seems like it happens at room temps for him, I know mode hopping is a thing in cold/hot temps, One friend has even told me stories of his yellow turning 532 when very cold. My point was that there are some spartans out there with no such issue to that extent.
 

Encap

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So ask them --demand whatever you want-be careful and specific about specs and driver.
CNI has been making 589nm and 593,5 since 2005---see if they can or will do an ideally functioning module for you.
ONe of my points was not to expect too much perfection for $370. You said 80mW for 300GPB in your post #64--Dragon Lasers web site now says 50mW <20 % stability for $370 was 10mW two weeks ago so... Maybe you will get lucky and get an overspec 70-80mW perfect/ideal 589nm for $370--who knows.

Can't find any reviews of DL 589nm Spartan that didn't mode hop a bit but maybe there are some------note: the little GLP low power pens have a 589nm module that is pulsed at 720 Hz to help stabilize and keep temperature under better control and don't mention mode hopping

PS Unique Yellow ---Dr Laser had CNI build him the first 5-7mw 577nm GLP pen w, pulsed output--very unique wavelength in a hand held and very expensive Approx $2400US see: https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/cni-glp-577-the-worlds-first-yellow-laser-pointer.101336/

Good luck.
 
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Gianakakis

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So ask them --demand whatever you want-be careful and specific about specs and driver.
CNI has been making 589nm and 593,5 since 2005---see if they can or will do an ideally functioning module for you. My point was not to expect too much perfection for $370. You said 80mW for 300GPB in your post #64--Dragon Lasers web site now says 50mW <20 % stability for $370 was 10mW two weeks ago so... Maybe you will get lucky and get an overspec 70-80mW perfect/ideal 589nm for $370--who knows.

Can't find any reviews of DL 589nm Spartan that didn't mode hop a bit but maybe there are some------note: the little GLP low power pens have a 589nm module that is pulsed at 720 Hz to help stabilize and keep temperature under better control and don't mention mode hopping

PS Unique Yellow ---Dr Laser had CNI build him the first 5-7mw 577nm GLP pen w, pulsed output--very unique wavelength in a hand held and very expensive Approx $2400US see: https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/cni-glp-577-the-worlds-first-yellow-laser-pointer.101336/

Good luck.
Thanks, I am planning on getting the module and either using another driver like the ACS1500SE or having an extra buck voltage regulator board inside the laser giving the original driver the 3v it wants then as for host I will hit up either Rich or Trinh.
 

Snecho

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Lame cause I’m a citizen of The United States of Lamerica :cautious:

Customs would surely swallow the thing whole, yes?
Hey cmak, it's good to see you post :)

That's extremely unlikely. In fact, I haven't read anything about people having issues with customs since about 8 years ago. Everyone I've talked to seems to support this.

This is why we can buy from Sanwu and JL.
 

trencheel303

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Lame cause I’m a citizen of The United States of Lamerica :cautious:

Customs would surely swallow the thing whole, yes?
I remember you PMing me a while back about being interested in the 589 but wanting to pay in instalments, I honestly can’t even remember if I got back to you.
While I would sell it to someone in the US, it would be on a basis of mutual understanding that if it got destroyed by your country’s customs, the buyer would not hassle me for a refund. In essence, you buy entirely at your own risk. I don’t think this is unfair, but I make it clear so there is no ambiguity. If you are interested you know where I am?
 

Gianakakis

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I remember you PMing me a while back about being interested in the 589 but wanting to pay in instalments, I honestly can’t even remember if I got back to you.
While I would sell it to someone in the US, it would be on a basis of mutual understanding that if it got destroyed by your country’s customs, the buyer would not hassle me for a refund. In essence, you buy entirely at your own risk. I don’t think this is unfair, but I make it clear so there is no ambiguity. If you are interested you know where I am?
Hm Hey, I got an Idea Since it low power enough stick a polarizing film in front with non-permanent but strong glue and then rotate it so it just passes a bit of light so when customs tests it, It would register under 5mw and the flim will not burn cause its only 60mw.
 

cmak

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Hey cmak, it's good to see you post :)

That's extremely unlikely. In fact, I haven't read anything about people having issues with customs since about 8 years ago. Everyone I've talked to seems to support this.

This is why we can buy from Sanwu and JL.
Thank you!! I’d just received two wonderful Sanwu’s (my first!!) this week: a 492nm 0.1W Pocket and a 488nm 0.15W engraved stainless steel Guardian. :love:


I remember you PMing me a while back about being interested in the 589 but wanting to pay in instalments, I honestly can’t even remember if I got back to you.
While I would sell it to someone in the US, it would be on a basis of mutual understanding that if it got destroyed by your country’s customs, the buyer would not hassle me for a refund. In essence, you buy entirely at your own risk. I don’t think this is unfair, but I make it clear so there is no ambiguity. If you are interested you know where I am?
Please pardon the delayed response. I understand clearly and will keep this in mind. I deeply appreciate the opportunity!!


Hm Hey, I got an Idea Since it low power enough stick a polarizing film in front with non-permanent but strong glue and then rotate it so it just passes a bit of light so when customs tests it, It would register under 5mw and the flim will not burn cause its only 60mw.
GENIUS. 🍻
 
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