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Encap

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Just filed it. I can go through my credit union as well. I have all the emails also. Thanks for the help guys. -eric
Too bad you didn't come here for advice first.

You are 100% right, as other have said.
Don't take can't return it for an answer.
That guy has been around for a while --he was an active member for a while attempting to market his business and lasers here. He stopped posting here after he found that nobody was buying his overprice laser selling daydreams.
Those lasers typical sell at retail prices of $60 to $95.


The guy//his business/his web site is reselling from within the USA hand held lasers with >5mW output to customers within USA. I could be wrong but it seems what he is doing is in violation of US laws, rules, and regulations, probably in several ways.
If so that would be a "Prohibited Activity" under PalPal's Acceptable Use Policy here: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?locale.x=en_US

See for yourself below the most current statements by the US FDA reflecting US laws, rules, and regualtions are as follows:

"FDA regulates all laser products, even handheld, battery-powered lasers that are available for purchase FROM manufacturers, importers, assemblers, dealers or distributors in the United States and its territories. This includes lasers manufactured or obtained on a continuing basis for the purpose of sale or resale.

FDA requires that manufacturers of these lasers limit the power of the laser light to 5 milliWatts (often abbreviated as "mW") or less. The labeling or packaging must allow the purchaser to know the power of the laser, its hazard class, and its wavelength before the laser is purchased. Even online advertisements must display this information for the purchaser.

Even the smallest handheld, battery-powered lasers are capable of emitting laser light at hazardous powers. Larger models, the size of a small flashlight, can burn skin and pop balloons. More importantly, consumers should assume any size handheld battery-powered laser they do not directly control has the potential to blind or permanently affect eyesight.

One way to determine if such a laser has been manufactured to regulatory power and hazard class limits is to find labeling. The labeling that comes with the laser (and online labeling) must display the power, hazard class, and wavelength. The wavelength is a number that describes the color of the beam.

The label must display the laser power. It must be 5 milliWatts or less. The label must display the hazard class. It must be Class I, Class IIa, Class II, Class IIIa or Class 1, Class 2 or Class 3R."

"REMEMBER:
Do not purchase a handheld, battery-powered laser labeled with hazard Class IIIb, Class IV, Class 1M, Class 2M, Class 3B or Class 4 unless the manufacturer has an approval from FDA (called a "variance") to allow the purchase. Lasers approved for purchase in these classes often have very specific uses and may be sold under certain conditions known to the manufacturer. Sales without a variance, or sales that violate the conditions of the variance, ARE ILLEGAL"

From 6/29/2016 update FDA web site here: Does FDA regulate these new powerful laser "pointers" and are they hazardous?

Additional explaination from FDA as follows:
"Laser pointers are hand-held lasers that are promoted for pointing out objects or locations. Such laser products can meet one of two definitions for laser products. The first is for “surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products” as defined by Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 1040.10(b)(39):

“Surveying, leveling, or alignment laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for one or more of the following uses:
(i) Determining and delineating the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement.
(ii) Positioning or adjusting parts in proper relation to one another.
(iii) Defining a plane, level, elevation, or straight line.”

Hand-held lasers promoted for entertainment purposes or amusement also meet the second definition, that of “demonstration laser products” as defined by 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(13):
“Demonstration laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended, or promoted for purposes of demonstration, entertainment, advertising display, or artistic composition.”
"Laser products promoted for pointing and demonstration purposes are limited to hazard Class IIIa by FDA regulation.

21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa. This means that pointers are limited to 5 milliwatts output power in the visible wavelength range from 400 to 710 nanometers. There are also limits for any invisible wavelengths and for short pulses. Pointers may not exceed the accessible emission limits of CDRH Class IIIa or IEC1 Class 3R."

From FDA website last updated 3/12/2015 here: http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-Emittin.../ucm116373.htm
 
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Subfanatic

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Thanks, He doesn't list any specs for that particular laser on the site, I emailed him to get the specs. I hope it goes my way but he lied about everything so who knows. I jumped in too soon and should've asked you guys first rather than after the fact. I still don't see a logical reason I can't just send it back. He must have this happen a lot due to the fact he says he always wins the dispute and has this policy in the first place. I have no idea how he thinks I'm doing something legally wrong by trying to return it. You should see the jumbled mess he wrote to PayPal in the dispute. Calling names etc., anger issues.
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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Actually call PayPal, don't say pointer at any time, and otherwise explain what happened. Ask for them to issue shipping label, film packing and sealing the package, then send it back.

Technically he is also blatantly breaking the law and you can even call fbi, since it crosses state lines and they have a task force assigned to it, but that's not really worth the hassle imo.
 

Encap

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Thanks, He doesn't list any specs for that particular laser on the site, I emailed him to get the specs. I hope it goes my way but he lied about everything so who knows. I jumped in too soon and should've asked you guys first rather than after the fact. I still don't see a logical reason I can't just send it back. He must have this happen a lot due to the fact he says he always wins the dispute and has this policy in the first place. I have no idea how he thinks I'm doing something legally wrong by trying to return it. You should see the jumbled mess he wrote to PayPal in the dispute. Calling names etc., anger issues.
It does say on his web site "Our return policy: If you receive a damaged laser in the mail we will replace it as long as you contact us within 48 hours after receiving the laser. We do not accept returns on used lasers or opened lasers as we are not able to resell any used lasers or opened packages. By ordering you accept and understand our return policy"

That he doesn't indicate an output power on the web site is for obvious reasons and is itself a violation of FDA laws, rules, and regulations.
It does not matter what his web site says or doesn't say---what he is doing is what he is doing.

No business in USA can import and sell lasers pointers >5mW .
Why do you think nobody in the USA makes, sells, or resells them?
Am talking about businesses importing and selling on a continuous basis hand held laser >5mW--general commerce--a business in the USA reselling---not an occasional sale by an individual who owns a >5mW laser.

His BS about PayPal is just that--PayPal almost always sides with the buyer not the seller. It appears that what he is doing in the real world is a "Prohibited Use" under PayPals Acceptable Use Policy

You have the emails that say it is 3000mW which it could be but probably isn't--either way is it >5mW?

I would guess you have the laws, rules, and regulations on your side.

Is up to you if you want to point out the truth of it and the FDA regulations--blow the whistle on him so to speak-- to PayPal or not--am sure you will get your money back if you do.

To buy the thing in good faith and then to find you have been ripped off by a guy taking advantage of people who don't know any better and then on top of that get abused and bullied by the guy the way you describe for doing so is beyond horrible. I hate seeing that happen to people.

I am surprised that nobody has reported the business/web site to the FDA yet-- which can be easily done---see at bottom of page the link for doing so here: Frequently Asked Questions About Lasers
"To report Web sites that you suspect are illegally selling laser products, follow the instructions at (this link) --Reporting Unlawful Sales of Medical Products on the Internet
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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He accepts payment via PayPal, he is subject to their TOS. He does business in the US he is subject to international, federal, state, County, city, and municipality laws in that order. No leeway about it, although federal enforcement is far more likely than international. Just call PayPal, they will side with you in this case, and guy would be retarded to fight it since it would mean losing PayPal services.
 

Subfanatic

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Wow, I really had no idea about any of this. I really should have done some more homework before I did anything. I'm awaiting his response to PayPal. Item not as described is basically what I may have on my side. I really do appreciate all the help I have received from all of you. -eric
 

Encap

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Liars piss us off a lot. At least they do piss me off.
I 100% agree.


Wow, I really had no idea about any of this. I really should have done some more homework before I did anything. I'm awaiting his response to PayPal. Item not as described is basically what I may have on my side. I really do appreciate all the help I have received from all of you. -eric
"Item not a described" -- may work.

As InfinitusEquitas said: " Ask for them to issue shipping label, film packing and sealing the package, then send it back"

Best of luck whichever way you decide to go with it.
 
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GSS

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Liars piss us of a lot. At least they do piss me off.
Someone has to find his posted video on this forum when he's using his 1W at the table with his child sitting at it. I don't know if he has his cheesy mustache in this vid as iv'e seen in first avatar pic with his family "that shows he's a good man":whistle:
This might be petty stuff i'm typing but like I mentioned before he jumped on me instantly when I was new here telling me his "301" has a special module and to pay him in 5 minutes for quick shipment, because he is going to the beach and sells them there and only has 50 units to sell and they go fast! I hate when these guys win:mad:
Hows this, I have 1442 messages in my box and "Worldcoolest" is the ""1st"" I got here. He hears my then pain of not trusting were to get a good laser and and he's the 1 to trust!
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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This might be petty stuff i'm typing but like I mentioned before he jumped on me instantly when I was new here telling me his "301" has a special module and to pay him in 5 minutes for quick shipment, because he is going to the beach and sells them there and only has 50 units to sell and they go fast!
That's an extremely crappy application of the "create urgency" approach by anyone who's done any kind of sales, and usually, to me, an immediate signal to walk away.
 

GSS

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That's an extremely crappy application of the "create urgency" approach by anyone who's done any kind of sales, and usually, to me, an immediate signal to walk away.
Yup, and I find this hard to say, I actually thought about sending it for a few minutes:eek:
Hey I was new if that saves me some face:whistle:
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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I think we've all been there when new. Ordering lasers, and lights that were never ever going to live up to their advertising.
 

GSS

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This is too funny so I had to waste a post. Look at his FB page where he says he was eating at at resteraunt with his family and he saw a man wearing Vets hat and he just had to pay for this mans meal:rolleyes:
 

Subfanatic

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I think we've all been there when new. Ordering lasers, and lights that were never ever going to live up to their advertising.
I had been looking at so many different lasers retailers, very confusing, especially when you don't know who's being truthful about the product. I did see some good reviews on his site (around 5 or so) and 1 referral from this forum. I can't find it for the life of me, it must have been very old but it's on here.

Initially I thought the laser was 3 watt and then I saw a similar body shape laser just looking through pics on Google. This particular one was a 1 watt. I really didn't care if it was 1 or 3, just as long as the quality was great and would be very reliable. Seller assured me of both of these. I wasn't prepared enough to know the right questions to ask about the internals. Maybe his idea of quality and my idea are quite different. Doesn't change the fact that he knew where he sourced it and that it probably wouldn't last very long.

I really should have compared prices on items online, that is my own fault. I rushed in to buying a laser. Again, my fault. I trusted that what I was being told was true due to the reviews I saw. That's really all one has to go by online. I'm a member of many forums from High end watches to Remote control aircraft and eBay. I have NEVER had one negative word spoken about how I handle my business, NEVER a negative review. I've shipped a 4K JLC watch to Australia, Rolex Sub to Chicago etc. I have feedback to prove most of it, if the buyer was kind enough to leave it. Basically, I'm a very conscientious seller.

The reason I'm using the "item not as described" is because it's not high quality, it's not going to be reliable, and its very unlikely that it's 3watts. Again, the watts are not as important to me as the quality and reliability, but I did get rather excited when he said it was 3, the only sticker on it says its 3watt. The fact I paid approx $129 too much does not make me super happy either. I did read his policy on returns. I did NOT think it would apply to a laser that is not the quality I was expecting and way over priced. I feel bad and I'm not proud of how our phone conversation went but it's done and I can't change it. His attitude in our email conversations had me a tad on the upset side. Whether this goes my way or the sellers is yet to be seen but I will be more careful in the future either way. Again, thanks everyone for the help and I hope my next one is as nice as it looks. -eric
 
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GSS

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We've all been there when new and this guy really spices up his sight and I just happened to ask another member about his products and just lucked out of from falling victim.
Of course you lost your cool no shame. This guy is also using thug tactics. I don't even know what to say on that? He's a disgusting human being in my mind, not a man out to provide for his family. And it still tortures me he still has victims. I could maby see an over priced quality product but he's up to a 10x mark up on some junk.
He is still a member without many posts but thats because he prey's potential noobies with PM's. He still has no neg reps but maby its time to change that so at least someone here has a chance.
Just watch how much you will learn here Subfanatic in a matter of a month if you follow the forum:) Yes its mind boggling like you said. It will come down to about 10 very good companys', some in the middle, some ebay type could be or could be bad products and then you find some very good private builders.
 




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