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FrozenGate by Avery

Is there a doctor in the house?

I'm already long winded enough so with EXTREME CONTROL I will simply say that I agree and disagree with lots here.
I'm a Canuck too and the health (un)care system here is far from being all that great. If you want to find out more try being part of the population living well below the "poverty line" for a length of time when you end up NEEDING some emergency health services ! Let me show you the scar and the misalignment of flesh when the doctor only stiched me back together with 5 stitches instead of the 10 he said I needed because I was broke at the time. (He even tried lecturing me on how "affordable" the monthly medical premiums were while he stiched me up. His assumptions about me drinking beer and the quantities he thought I must consume were used as comparison. Then he didn't believe me when I told him that even if I were to think about buying alcohol that I am alergic to beer so I wouldn't start with that. Then he went red in the face and started manhandling my appendage being stitched !)

I think a lot of professionals treat you with some disrespect as a means of self preservance. They don't want to think of you as a person or associate you with someone they know or care about as they may loose some of their objectivity.
Most of the time it wouldn't be a problem but if you started to know someone fairly well and then had to give them tragic news or worse it could really mess you up. And the medical profession would be one of those that it would happen more times than most. So chalk it up as a mental defense mechanism.
I do and it makes it a lot easier to tolerate it.


And after all those years of medical training why do they insist on calling it "practise" ?
I want the guy who has done it enough times that he's Pro !
 





I really hope that this recurring theme of questioning the word "practice", or suggesting that it is somehow ironic, is a joke... it is right?

IE, people DO get that it's not the same usage of the same word right? It's not the "practice makes perfect" sense of the word that doctors are employing, but rather the "put XYZ into practice" sense of the word - the usage that suggests "to frequently engage in"

That said - I think you may be right about the defence mechanism. That makes sense. I also think it just plain takes a special type of individual to be willing to sit through 10+ years of education. Every cross section of society has people with poor social skills. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the cross section containing that small group of people willing to spend 10+ years on education, has more of those people with poor social skills in it ;)
 
I also couldn't agree more with that statement. Doctors are like the rest of the population. There are good ones and bad ones. Ones that actually care and those that at the very least have become so jaded that they no longer seem to care. It just seems like more times then not I send up with the latter. It's very frustrating to say the least.


Rhd I don't know your background but it sounds like you are either already in the medical field or working towards it. If that's the case please try not let the job make you like like these "bad" doctors. :)

And yeah I understand the use of the word practice in this context but it certainly makes it more fun to pick on them by using it :p
 
your doctor just happens to be rude. cutting somebody off mid thouht is poor ettiquette. as to him wanting to give you more test, i will agree with RHD on this.

remeber there is an old saying, you are your doctors best diagnostic tool. i recently found a new primary care doc and he is great. he wants to run all kinds of tests because of my family history and i just turned 30. but he is polite and let me talk and kept asking about me and how i feel. i was pretty impressed.

you also have to remember that dr.s get kick backs from insurance companies and pharmaceutacle companies. so your dr. might just be worried about that. I wouldn't be concerned about the ethnic part.

but good luck with your diabetis

michael.
 
Chip it sounds like you have found a good one there. Stick with him and be sure to let him know you appreciate him. I really don't mind the testing if I can at least feel like it's valid. If this new guy would spend a moment and "make his case" to me I'd be a lot better about it.

I think of it as almost a job interview when I go to a new doctor. First impressions for a doctor go a long way with me. As a doctor you have about 60 seconds to impress me or at the very least not piss me off. ;)
 
rhd said:
I really hope that this recurring theme of questioning the word "practice", or suggesting that it is somehow ironic, is a joke... it is right?
Click to expand...


Yes, RHD. In my post it certainly was a joke. Thats why I put the ":crackup:" after that sentence. ;)
 
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jcranmer said:
By continuing to read this thread, you certify that you are a non medical professional. If you are in the medical field, you agree that you will only reply if you are in full agreement with me. If you do not agree to these terms you must click here rather then continue to read. Failure to comply means you are breaking the terms of this EULA. :D

RANT
Why is it whenever I see a new doctor, specialist or not, I start thinking the medical education system in this country is completely broken. A person with only a high school education should not feel as if they know more then their very highly paid doctor.

I'm a diabetic, I was diagnosed in the early 80's and have mostly taken care of it on my own with limited help from my family doctor for the past 10 years. I'm trying to get more serious about my health and since I'm really starting to have issues controlling my blood sugar, I agreed to see an endocrinologist for the first time in over 20 years.

I went to this guy for one reason only; to get an order for an Insulin pump. I want to try one and see if I am a good fit for it. I'm a generally smart person and like to do much of my health care on my own. Of course there are somethings you just can't get without one of these very educated persons signature. :(

The conversion went like this:
DR: I see you are a type II
ME: No I'm a type I
DR: Are you sure??
ME: Um...Yeah I've been insulin dependent for nearly 30 years, and when I was diagnosed they called it juvenile diabet....
DR: (interrupting me) That doesn't mean anything. We must test you.

Yeah....

Then we started the next conversation:
DR: Your face is red, have you ever been tested for Cushings?
ME: Yes, I just had a complete blood workup for several generic issues, including Cushings. (It was negative)
DR: (interrupting me yet again!) That's not good enough! I need to test you again.

Of course the fact that my BP was 170/109 just moments before wouldn't have had anything to do with my face being red. :banghead:


You folks still reading all of this??

ARGHHH...Nothing annoys me more then arrogance, except maybe continually interrupting me when I am trying to answer YOUR questions.

Word of advice to new doctors, don't be an ass. Listen to the people you are trying to help. Try to understand that some of them are more educated then a 1st grader. If you don't, It's a sure fire way to get your medical school loans paid back much slower as you lose patients.

/RANT
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Doesn't matter if you've been tested, all that matters if you've been tested by that doctor or still have the results from your tests. America is a sue happy place and there are people looking to fuck you around every corner. Because of this, doctors are forced to perform unnecessary tests to assure that you DON'T have something. Because if you do and they failed to diagnose it, they get their ass pounded in court.
That's the only reason for these tests. He should of been putting you on medication for hypertension, or changing your existing dosage. I guess that's really something for your family doctor to worry about, not the endocrinologist.
I prefer the doctors that will just let me tell them what I need, and give it to me so I can leave.
 
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Yep. I know this is at the heart of it as well. :(

The BP thing I'm chalking up to a mistake. My BP is high if not treated. I was little late on meds, but even untreated it's not normally anywhere near that level.

However it is treated, to the point of going overboard. I've had several dizzy spells in the past the ended up from be pressure being to low. Right now even if I'm late taking a dose of meds, it's never higher then 150 / 90. Normal results are right on 120/80 or lower. This is another one of those things that I've worked so hard with my primary doctor on and it's the one area I know we have done a good job. I check my readings nearly ever day and sometimes 4 or 5 times a day. I also keep track of them all and give them to my doc on every visit. :)

Later if I'm in a sharing mood, I'll give you all some of my past history with doctors and why I am so darn picky about them now.

Mohrenberg said:
Doesn't matter if you've been tested, all that matters if you've been tested by that doctor or still have the results from your tests. America is a sue happy place and there are people looking to fuck you around every corner. Because of this, doctors are forced to perform unnecessary tests to assure that you DON'T have something. Because if you do and they failed to diagnose it, they get their ass pounded in court.
That's the only reason for these tests. He should of been putting you on medication for hypertension, or changing your existing dosage. I guess that's really something for your family doctor to worry about, not the endocrinologist.
I prefer the doctors that will just let me tell them what I need, and give it to me so I can leave.
Click to expand...
 
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I know I'm digging up an older post, but I'd rather just reply to this then to create a new post. :)

So in contrast to my original post, I had a really good experience with a doctor yesterday and thought it was worth mentioning to temper some of my obvious distrust of the medical profession.


I got a call at work yesterday at lunchtime from my Mom. She was taking the dog out for a walk after a rainstorm and slipped in the mud at the bottom of the 3 stairs coming off the deck. Although she has never broken a bone, she was certain she broke her wrist catching herself and thought she might have severely damaged her knee.

Some things to note: My mother is 67 y.o. and not in the best of health. She has had breast cancer, multiple heat attacks, a quad bypass, and has a pacemaker. What possesses her to still try to walk a stubborn 100 lb rottweiler is beyond me. Never the less she still does, but this time it didn't work out well.

She was here by herself and I'm still not sure how she got herself back in the house to call me. I quickly headed home, packed her into the car with some help from my wife, and drove her to the nearest E.R. (About 30 mins away)

The hospital got her a wheel chair as soon as we got there and had her registered within 15 mins, she was back in a private exam room within another 15 mins (They call these fast track rooms).

I just can't say enough good things about this hospital. They are always filled with friendly staff and usually move you through the system quickly. I've been there for many things, and it's the only place I would ever willingly go myself.

A wonderful nurse and nurse practitioner took care of her. They got x-rays and confirmed that she broke her ulna and radius. The radius was actually fractured into about 3 pieces. The used a more specific term then that, but I don't remember the exact name. It's at the wrist end of these bones.

They paged out the Ortho on call and shot her full of morphine for pain. (This is one of the very few pain meds she can take due to extreme nausea and vomiting with almost all other pain meds) This was the only part that took some time. The doctor was busy with other major breaks, and his normal patient load in his office (attached to the hospital)

The doctor was beyond nice, very friendly, treated everyone with respect (also from India), made sure my Mom, myself, and wife understood everything. I just can't say enough about doctors who do this. It makes a big difference to family when they feel like they are at least informed on what is going on.

Turns out she broke it bad enough to need surgery, but because of her heart issues (on blood thinners) they have to wait a week to schedule it. He put her in a plaster formed split (long arm splint) and bandaged up her arm.

Turns out they couldn't really find anything wrong with the knee, it's not broken, so she just pulled something bad. They put an elastic brace on it and sent her home with us last night with a prescription for Dilaudid (pain) and Zofran (for nausea)

From break to ER and back home in around 8 or 9 hours. All in all a pretty fast ER visit and even though it may seem long, they took great care to manage her pain during the wait. :gj:

If you are still reading this far, you are far better at reading long posts then I am. :) I just felt it necessary to balance my less then favorably medical post with this one.
 
I'm planning to be a doctor, yes. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to blow off some of your posts, I'm not fond of having my profession chopped at. But going all the way back to the OP, I don't want to get started on how much of a dick a doctor can be. See, some of us feel like we're superheros that walk the earth, that save others lives on a daily bases. And by asserting their ego to such a point as so, they feel it their right to shoot down your opinions.
Talking over you, telling you you're wrong, being abrupt, some of them are sour. But really, it IS the doctor you have, as rhd had said earlier. I've been taught that as a generalization that 4 year old information is too old. Technology in the field does expand at a rapid rate, so every 4 years, don't be surprised if you get tested for something again and again.

Oddly enough, we have an entire 26 week long, 7 days a week, 3 hour course teaching us how to treat patients. It is not mandatory but according to statistics since 1994, graduates who took it had a %13 higher patient approval rating. They teach you how to be nice and politely tell people that you are going to be retested. Instead of interrupting you, I would have waited until you were finished with your statement, then say "Since your information is 20 years old, I'm going to have to do a diagnostic test again since the technology has advanced so much since then, are you alright with me running a diagnostic test?" It's important to let the patient be in control, if they don't want something done, you can advise it but NOT pursue or force it.

Personally, I'm studying to be an ER surgeon, so dealing with people will be more of a "Can you feel this?" situation.

Also, "Your face is red, have you ever been tested for Cushings?" What is he doing talking like the terminator?

And how he forced the test for cushings on you, you can always say "I do not consent of the progressing actions" or something else of the nature and by law they must not continue unless lives are at risk.
 
Fenzir said:
And how he forced the test for cushings on you, you can always say "I do not consent of the progressing actions" or something else of the nature and by law they must not continue unless lives are at risk.
Click to expand...

I've tried that a few times, and the doctors got very cold, and unresponsive.

Obviously there are going to be egos involved when you are in control of peoples lives. Some doctors handle it better than some. I've been to few doctors who could careless. My doctor now told me point blank that "she had no sympathy for my condition (3 herniated disks, minor fibromyalgia, arthritis in my spine, and degenerative disc disease) because I was over weight, and that I had to have something wrong with me mentally to eat that much". I mean WTF?
 
@fenzir,
I appreciate your honest opinions. I've often heard this "super hero" thing called "a god complex". I'm sure it would affect me if I was in that position of saving lives on a daily basis as well. ER docs / surgeons are tops in my book. That is one of the few medical roles where I can even over look a certain amount of rudeness. When lives are on the line you are allowed to be less then civil. :) So my kudos go out to you for pursuing one of the most noble roles a doctor can fill. If you are looking to get into this to be an ER doc, you already seem to me like you are doing it for the "right" reasons. :beer: It's not all of your profession that I dislike, only a sub-set that seem to go out of the way to be rude.

The rude doctor I don't think of as my doctor anymore. The great thing about being in the US, is I can "doctor shop" to a certain degree. I will eventually track down one that I can get along with and that I think has my health as his / her top priority. While I didn't refuse his testing outright, he left it up to me to schedule them, since I needed to be fasting. Needless to say I most likely won't bother, or if I do, I will opt out of the Cushings testing. btw: The quote is pretty close to the way it was delivered. I don't think English was his first language, but I don't at all hold that against him.

@TJ,
Yeah I get the same grief about weight from most of my docs. They are normally nice about it though. They understand that I *get* it. Weight isn't easy to fix, and with all the issues I have, it usually get's bumped to the bottom of the "must do" list. I know what I need to do. Doing it is the issue. :) In fact most of my health issues are at least in part self inflicted. The only one I don't take much responsibility in is the diabetes. Type I at least as I understand it, isn't directly tied to diet, but to a genetic factor, although I'm sure some of that has changed over all the years.

To all the future docs out there, I don't expect you to agree with me, but if one of you remembers this thread some day in the future and treats his / her patient just a little more like a thinking and feeling human, I will be happy. :)
 
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I have no issues with her talking about my weight, but thats not the reason why my back is screwed up. Herniated disks, minor fibromyalgia, arthritis, and degenerative disc disease have nothing to do with my weight. She told me she cant understand why people are over weight. Which is a stupid statement considering over half the US population is over weight. She weighs 90lbs at best, and is ~6' tall. She's very gross IMO. But I dont tell her she should eat more. She obviously has a body prejudice, and cant keep it to her self.
 
Oops. I read your reply quickly and jumped to the wrong conclusions. Yeah it sounds like we both have our fair share of doctors lacking empathy or at the very least good manners.

I've also come to the conclusion that along with your two types of doctors comment way earlier in this thread, there are also two types of patients as well. Those that try to play an active role in their health care and those that follow a doctors word to the letter no matter the cost. These folks I think of as lemmings. My mother used to be one of the lemmings.

Her attitude and lack of understanding about real illnesses cost me a couple of weeks of my childhood in a psych ward at a local hospital when what I really needed was a surgeon to fix the grapefruit sized Hiatal hernia that I was suffering with for years. My childhood "doctor" misdiagnosed me more times that I can remember before finally convincing my mother that what I really had was "School-itus" (His actual words).

As an adult, I understand this has helped shape my general distrust of doctors. I'm actually much better about it these days, since I have been fortunate to find a few really good ones.
 
Yeah, english not being your first language can be really tough. Just throwing it out there, we do use a lot of odd terminology. I tried to explain the use of the term "to have sex" (odd placement of have), and "to take a piss" (odd use of take) to a french engineer major and he just did NOT get it. Understand that the english language is indeed full of BS. Still, cutting people off is not a good way to get on somebodys good side. But as somebody mentioned earlier, there is definitely two kinds of doctors, the rich parent ones and the from rags to riches. And although I'm years away from doing any major surgery, we can walk in and watch surgeries every once in a while and they are like "Get me the f***ing incisors and a fossa mirror" in a normal volume of voice and a normal every day tone.

On an anatomical note, yes, type I is more on the generic side than the activated side, you could burn more than you consume in a day and still get it or live a sedentary life and not get it.
Rather off topic, how could somebody mess up a Hiatal hernia with scoliosis? I've had scoliosis for 6 years and it's not that bad for me although I only have a 4 degree curve. Jeez, that's almost as bad as a report I heard about where somebody with an inguinal hernia was misdiagnosed with three testicles :thinking:
 
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