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FrozenGate by Avery
INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!!
- Thread starter Daedal
- Start date
Gazoo
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
That must be one super powered Jr...lol. 260mw's....wow! I would think it would require at least ~400ma's of current. It's tempting to take out the parallel resistor on my 7135 so the diode gets the full 350ma's...hmmmm. I don't know...lol. Seriously, I think you have a freak...Daedal's graph also peaked out just above 200mw's when he tested the GB diode.
SenKat said:
That must be one super powered Jr...lol. 260mw's....wow! I would think it would require at least ~400ma's of current. It's tempting to take out the parallel resistor on my 7135 so the diode gets the full 350ma's...hmmmm. I don't know...lol. Seriously, I think you have a freak...Daedal's graph also peaked out just above 200mw's when he tested the GB diode.
Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Akima: So what are you going to call it?
Cale: I think I'll call it ... Bob.
Akima: You can't call a planet "BOB"!
Cale: So now you're the boss now, huh. You're the King of Bob.
Akima: Can't we just call it "Earth"??
Cale: No one said you have to live on Bob.
Akima: I'm never calling it that.
Akima: So what are you going to call it?
Cale: I think I'll call it ... Bob.
Akima: You can't call a planet "BOB"!
Cale: So now you're the boss now, huh. You're the King of Bob.
Akima: Can't we just call it "Earth"??
Cale: No one said you have to live on Bob.
Akima: I'm never calling it that.
Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Pseudo... I believe Phazor sounds better than bob...
You should know... you were saying something about jade?
It just slid off my tongue and sounded like it had a nice ring to it
As about the Voltage... maybe you are confused... or you've been drinking ;D Voltage has nothing to do with it... The diode requires a specific voltage equivalent to it's voltage drop... the more you supply it, the more heat it generates... and the output is a measure of current and not voltage.
I tried my best at supplying as complete a graph as I could... and then I did my best at smoking this diode... I honestly blew a fuse when I was trying to kick out that much regulated power to the diode the first time around... and it wasn't a short! And the second time around I had 2 regulating circuits running side by side to supply that much power with that much regulation... graphed on an oscilloscope the output was solid and steady... incredibly steady... and I just slowly ramped up the current through the circuit until it blew... it was around 700mA and it outputted a maximum of 323mW of nice solid ruby red! I should have recorded it seeing that it was in fact meant to be a push to max test... but given that the diode is rated at 200mW CW and 350mW pulsed sounds right on the money with these results. If you would like... I could set up a pulse circuit pushing 800mA for the next test... but it won't be on that last diode there... that next one is getting the royal treatment... I'm going to hook up both my DMM and the LPM to the laptop and graph both simultaneously... that way you guys get a very nice picture of what the data looks like
When I get time... that is exactly what you'll see
Based on my personal experience, this diode is a beast... it's a heck of a beast even. I'm sorry we didn't order more from the get go on that first raffle... I would love for everyone to get their chance at playing with it... And perhaps this GB is what will allow that
Also, guys, please be advised that IF you are planning on pushing this thing past 400-500mA... you'll need more than one regulation circuit... trying running 2 in parallel or something... otherwise... you can't control it, predict it, or filter it properly... Not to mention most things here are not rated to over 1.5W of power... I'd say even 3 or 4 circuits in parallel is a good idea
GL;
DDL
Pseudo... I believe Phazor sounds better than bob...
You should know... you were saying something about jade?
It just slid off my tongue and sounded like it had a nice ring to it
As about the Voltage... maybe you are confused... or you've been drinking ;D Voltage has nothing to do with it... The diode requires a specific voltage equivalent to it's voltage drop... the more you supply it, the more heat it generates... and the output is a measure of current and not voltage.
I tried my best at supplying as complete a graph as I could... and then I did my best at smoking this diode... I honestly blew a fuse when I was trying to kick out that much regulated power to the diode the first time around... and it wasn't a short! And the second time around I had 2 regulating circuits running side by side to supply that much power with that much regulation... graphed on an oscilloscope the output was solid and steady... incredibly steady... and I just slowly ramped up the current through the circuit until it blew... it was around 700mA and it outputted a maximum of 323mW of nice solid ruby red! I should have recorded it seeing that it was in fact meant to be a push to max test... but given that the diode is rated at 200mW CW and 350mW pulsed sounds right on the money with these results. If you would like... I could set up a pulse circuit pushing 800mA for the next test... but it won't be on that last diode there... that next one is getting the royal treatment... I'm going to hook up both my DMM and the LPM to the laptop and graph both simultaneously... that way you guys get a very nice picture of what the data looks like
When I get time... that is exactly what you'll see Based on my personal experience, this diode is a beast... it's a heck of a beast even. I'm sorry we didn't order more from the get go on that first raffle... I would love for everyone to get their chance at playing with it... And perhaps this GB is what will allow that
Also, guys, please be advised that IF you are planning on pushing this thing past 400-500mA... you'll need more than one regulation circuit... trying running 2 in parallel or something... otherwise... you can't control it, predict it, or filter it properly... Not to mention most things here are not rated to over 1.5W of power... I'd say even 3 or 4 circuits in parallel is a good idea
GL;
DDL
- Joined
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Daedal, I actually have a pretty clear mind right now. Here's the point:
If SenKats diode, and your diode draw the same current at the same voltage, they're pretty much the same diode. A higher power diode of the same type will, all things equal, draw more current at the same voltage.
Overdriving a diode with TEC cooling till it smokes CAN be circumstancial evidence, or it can be total luck of the draw. If you can show us how voltage affects current draw, or perhaps output, it will go much further to let us know how similar, or different these diodes are.
Honestly, we know there's no reason to automatically trust anything a random OEM/reseller tells us. We have no spec sheet, we only have some circumstancial evidence, and a whole lot of hope. Comparing the current draws at the same voltage though - that will tell us something. Just like a 1W 808nm will draw ~twice what a 500mW 808nm will at 1.8V, we can use the voltage vs. current data to see how amazing or not these Bobs are!
Daedal, I actually have a pretty clear mind right now
. Here's the point:If SenKats diode, and your diode draw the same current at the same voltage, they're pretty much the same diode. A higher power diode of the same type will, all things equal, draw more current at the same voltage.
Overdriving a diode with TEC cooling till it smokes CAN be circumstancial evidence, or it can be total luck of the draw. If you can show us how voltage affects current draw, or perhaps output, it will go much further to let us know how similar, or different these diodes are.
Honestly, we know there's no reason to automatically trust anything a random OEM/reseller tells us. We have no spec sheet, we only have some circumstancial evidence, and a whole lot of hope. Comparing the current draws at the same voltage though - that will tell us something. Just like a 1W 808nm will draw ~twice what a 500mW 808nm will at 1.8V, we can use the voltage vs. current data to see how amazing or not these Bobs are!
Gazoo
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
pseudo,
I am glad you have a clear mind because in your previous post I had a hard time understanding what you were getting at.
Now I know. I did a quick current test between the Sony GB and an open can, and wrote the voltages down.
Sony GB:
245ma's 2.83 volts
Open Can:
245ma's 2.55 volts
Obviously if I would have run the open can with 2.83 volts, it would have drawn much more current.
But we also have to look at the differences in the power output. According the the graphs, the Sony GB diode puts out ~50mw's more when 245ma's is applied. The graph plot crosses over at ~375ma's and at this point the open can begins to put out more power. I don't mean to hijack the thread by comparing my open can, but the graph for it is very close to the "Bob" diode.
pseudo,
I am glad you have a clear mind because in your previous post I had a hard time understanding what you were getting at.
Now I know. I did a quick current test between the Sony GB and an open can, and wrote the voltages down.
Sony GB:
245ma's 2.83 volts
Open Can:
245ma's 2.55 volts
Obviously if I would have run the open can with 2.83 volts, it would have drawn much more current.
But we also have to look at the differences in the power output. According the the graphs, the Sony GB diode puts out ~50mw's more when 245ma's is applied. The graph plot crosses over at ~375ma's and at this point the open can begins to put out more power. I don't mean to hijack the thread by comparing my open can, but the graph for it is very close to the "Bob" diode.
Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Gazoo... thank you for that data
The phazor diode, or 'bob's as you like to call them, are not the same as the SenKat GB didoes... and are not intended for the same purpose. Pseudo, the diode I have here is still under development in terms of application... and so a datasheet is, quite literally, unavailable. These are the next batch of diodes to be used in the higher power DVD burners. 22X maybe?
Anyway... without an argumentative nature... I will do the test as you would like to see... and not to be sounding rude or anything, but saying it like that is a pretty much attacking me and my claim of it being a higher power diode.
I was shocked to see your earlier post. I thought if there was anyone that would be on my side it would have been you... :-?
Either way... I'm off to sleep as I'm going to the FLEM tomorrow, and will most likely be posting my pictures of all the cool gadgetry, geekiness, laserism, and equipment on here very soon too
Thank you;
DDL
Gazoo... thank you for that data
The phazor diode, or 'bob's as you like to call them, are not the same as the SenKat GB didoes... and are not intended for the same purpose. Pseudo, the diode I have here is still under development in terms of application... and so a datasheet is, quite literally, unavailable. These are the next batch of diodes to be used in the higher power DVD burners. 22X maybe?
Anyway... without an argumentative nature... I will do the test as you would like to see... and not to be sounding rude or anything, but saying it like that is a pretty much attacking me and my claim of it being a higher power diode.
I was shocked to see your earlier post. I thought if there was anyone that would be on my side it would have been you... :-?Either way... I'm off to sleep as I'm going to the FLEM tomorrow, and will most likely be posting my pictures of all the cool gadgetry, geekiness, laserism, and equipment on here very soon too
Thank you;
DDL
Benm
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Current for a give voltage might tell you something about its abilities, but it's not a sure shot at all.
It depends on where the extra power comes from: if the actual lasing area is longer, and the construction otherwise equal, you'll get more current draw in a linear relation with power capability. This scenario basically equates to running 2 diodes paralel, drawing double current for a given voltage.
Another major factor in power capability is resilience to optical failure, where the quality of the end facets is the determining factor. Current draw will give you no indication of this, its just a matter of maximum optical power levels that the materials can handle.
I'd say stop messing with LM317's for these experiments. They are excellent little circuits to build into flashlights and such, but constructing a decent current source that can drive several amps is not THAT difficult.
pseudonomen137 said:Comparing the current draws at the same voltage though - that will tell us something. Just like a 1W 808nm will draw ~twice what a 500mW 808nm will at 1.8V, we can use the voltage vs. current data to see how amazing or not these Bobs are!
Current for a give voltage might tell you something about its abilities, but it's not a sure shot at all.
It depends on where the extra power comes from: if the actual lasing area is longer, and the construction otherwise equal, you'll get more current draw in a linear relation with power capability. This scenario basically equates to running 2 diodes paralel, drawing double current for a given voltage.
Another major factor in power capability is resilience to optical failure, where the quality of the end facets is the determining factor. Current draw will give you no indication of this, its just a matter of maximum optical power levels that the materials can handle.
I'd say stop messing with LM317's for these experiments. They are excellent little circuits to build into flashlights and such, but constructing a decent current source that can drive several amps is not THAT difficult.
Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
I agree Ben. I'm not using the LM317 circuit for the second diode test. I do have another plan in mind... As soon as I get the time and parts, the second one will be getting the royal treatment with a ramp test
--DDL
Benm said:
I agree Ben. I'm not using the LM317 circuit for the second diode test. I do have another plan in mind... As soon as I get the time and parts, the second one will be getting the royal treatment with a ramp test
--DDL
Gazoo
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Something else to consider, and I know this has been brought up before, would be to run these diodes at their pulsed rating. Of course the problem is we don't have a data sheet, but maybe we could go by the previous one to calculate the frequency.
I know it has been said that running on pulsed power will not be any different than running on cw, but I do not see how that can be. I mean they rate this diode at 350mw's pulsed and 200mw's cw. If I were to measure the difference with a meter, I would think I would see 350mw's when running pulsed. Am I right or is this not worth exploring?
I don't have the skills needed to build a pulsed circuit or I would have done so by now. But it would seem to me if this is a possibility and a circuit would not be too difficult to build, we could really get more than our moneys worth out of our diodes by running them pulsed.
Something else to consider, and I know this has been brought up before, would be to run these diodes at their pulsed rating. Of course the problem is we don't have a data sheet, but maybe we could go by the previous one to calculate the frequency.
I know it has been said that running on pulsed power will not be any different than running on cw, but I do not see how that can be. I mean they rate this diode at 350mw's pulsed and 200mw's cw. If I were to measure the difference with a meter, I would think I would see 350mw's when running pulsed. Am I right or is this not worth exploring?
I don't have the skills needed to build a pulsed circuit or I would have done so by now. But it would seem to me if this is a possibility and a circuit would not be too difficult to build, we could really get more than our moneys worth out of our diodes by running them pulsed.
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Sorry to sound if I was attacking you. I assure you that was all in my poor phrasing, sorry.
The way I see it though, voltage vs. current and voltage vs. mW is essential. I admit its not a perfect test, but given what information and materials we have, it seems like the best possible test we have by far.
Sure, different diodes may be more resilient to COD, IE, better at having their junctions driven a little harder. However, there's still the fact that for a 658nm single-mode diode, the typical operating voltage will be similar across the outputs. Its not valid to say that since a 200mW diode needs ~2.9V, a 1mW diode would 0.0145V, and that's the key to my suggestion.
If both diode draw the same current, and output the same mW at the same voltage, the only thing we could possibly say is that the Phazor diodes may be a little better at being driven harder - and even that would just be a guess based on a 'statistically insignificant' sample. However, if we see the Phazor diodes drawing more amps, and outputing more power at the same voltage, it'll be a very clear indication of their... awesomeness.
So that said, if possible can we see some voltage vs current and voltage vs power data comparing the SenKat GB and Phazor diodes? Doesn't need to be a graph, but a few data points would be nice. Thanks for your time DDL!
Sorry to sound if I was attacking you. I assure you that was all in my poor phrasing, sorry.
The way I see it though, voltage vs. current and voltage vs. mW is essential. I admit its not a perfect test, but given what information and materials we have, it seems like the best possible test we have by far.
Sure, different diodes may be more resilient to COD, IE, better at having their junctions driven a little harder. However, there's still the fact that for a 658nm single-mode diode, the typical operating voltage will be similar across the outputs. Its not valid to say that since a 200mW diode needs ~2.9V, a 1mW diode would 0.0145V, and that's the key to my suggestion.
If both diode draw the same current, and output the same mW at the same voltage, the only thing we could possibly say is that the Phazor diodes may be a little better at being driven harder - and even that would just be a guess based on a 'statistically insignificant' sample. However, if we see the Phazor diodes drawing more amps, and outputing more power at the same voltage, it'll be a very clear indication of their... awesomeness.
So that said, if possible can we see some voltage vs current and voltage vs power data comparing the SenKat GB and Phazor diodes? Doesn't need to be a graph, but a few data points would be nice. Thanks for your time DDL!
Benm
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Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
I could build a pulsed driver if required, but i find it very difficult how i should determine if its doing any good. The only way to tell if pulsed is better is do to destructive testing while using a power meter that has no problem with the pulsed input (any thermal sensor would do).
I'd enjoy investigating all of that, but i dont have a power meter, nor 10 or so diodes to fry as a reasonable sample.
I would dare to speculate that pulsed operation has little use on the GB diodes however. People here have pushed those in CW to the point where the power/current graph begins to level off, without adverse effect.
Pulsed operation can only result in larger average power if the power/current curve is rising more than 1:1, which is not the case above 200 mA or so.
I could build a pulsed driver if required, but i find it very difficult how i should determine if its doing any good. The only way to tell if pulsed is better is do to destructive testing while using a power meter that has no problem with the pulsed input (any thermal sensor would do).
I'd enjoy investigating all of that, but i dont have a power meter, nor 10 or so diodes to fry as a reasonable sample.
I would dare to speculate that pulsed operation has little use on the GB diodes however. People here have pushed those in CW to the point where the power/current graph begins to level off, without adverse effect.
Pulsed operation can only result in larger average power if the power/current curve is rising more than 1:1, which is not the case above 200 mA or so.
Re: INTEREST GAUGE for PHAZOR Diodes -- 200mW CW!!
Pulsing can help with burning. I used to superpulse a one of my lasers. The laser was run CW with a stream of high power pulses. The high power pulses were short in duration with respect to the thermal time constant of the laser. The high power pulses would slightly char the surface and increase absorption. Then the normal laser power would be able to burn the target.
Pulsing can help with burning. I used to superpulse a one of my lasers. The laser was run CW with a stream of high power pulses. The high power pulses were short in duration with respect to the thermal time constant of the laser. The high power pulses would slightly char the surface and increase absorption. Then the normal laser power would be able to burn the target.