Hit in eye with 1000mw 445nm blue laser

[Seldovia]

It's a small world. But it's an even smaller laser world. Not 5 hours ago I was just reading this article: http://www.laserpointersafety.com/news/news/nonaviation-incidents_files/a6392218b70b40d2334943c4fc97e677-206.php
Then I find your post by accident. :wtf:

 

[wendylou]

Per some people's suggestion, I set up a donation site here: https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/1ym3/stem-cell-treatment-for-laser-damaged-eye

I really appreciate any donations you all are able to give. It is my hope that this procedure is successful and gives others that have this condition some hope for a better future. Thank you all so very much!

I've so sorry this has happened to you. I just donated via your link. I'm glad you found a stem cell treatment. They are remarkable cells. No doubt it will be successful. Recently, I ran across a stem cell trial that eliminates diabetes type 2 in most who were treated, so there's much hope for you.

Update: I just added your fundraiser module to my website.

 

[xoul]

You people are incredible! I never expected this kind of reaction. I was starting to accept that I would never be able to afford this treatment. You all have given me hope. I truly appreciate what you all are doing, and hope that one day your generosity is returned to you. I believe it will be. Thank you all so much! :thanks:

 

[DrSid]

I'm glad you really want to do this, and I like you went ahead and started a site. But this service seems odd choice for me. The only accept credit cards .. no google, no paypal. Also they want almost $8 as a fee.
Sure, if you expect people to send $100, it's no big deal, and I'm happy to see some already sent such amounts. With internet sourcing however, expected amounts like $10 can give you more money in the end, as anyone can send you that little .. in such case $8 fee is too much.
As I know LPM site has donation program going .. maybe we can ask mods to take care of it ? They have the software side up and running. And I even actually trust LPM more than some site I have never been on.

 

[Arshus]

You can give any amount you want, and the fee for a $10 donation is a little under $1. I believe the $7.89 is for a $100 dollar donation which is the default.

-Sal

 

[DrSid]

You can give any amount you want, and the fee for a $10 donation is a little under $1. I believe the $7.89 is for a $100 dollar donation which is the default.

-Sal

OIC .. might be the case .. still no paypal option kills it for me. At least until other options are investigated ..

 

[xoul]

OIC .. might be the case .. still no paypal option kills it for me. At least until other options are investigated ..

Wow... I had no idea there was a fee involved and they wouldn't accept PayPal.... That's very underhanded. I apologize about that. I actually chose GiveForward because of horror stories I read about using PayPal donation, but I may can set up a donation site with PayPal also for those who wish to use PayPal, such as yourself. Or, if the forums have a better system, I am totally open to using it, but I don't have those kind of connections with the mods around here like some of you might. Let me know if I can do anything to pursue that.

 

[DrSid]

Wow... I had no idea there was a fee involved and they wouldn't accept PayPal.... That's very underhanded. I apologize about that. I actually chose GiveForward because of horror stories I read about using PayPal donation, but I may can set up a donation site with PayPal also for those who wish to use PayPal, such as yourself. Or, if the forums have a better system, I am totally open to using it, but I don't have those kind of connections with the mods around here like some of you might. Let me know if I can do anything to pursue that.

I've asked on veterans forum, but so far it get little attention, I guess, Christmass and all. If you can use one more different site with other options with little effort, sure, go ahead.
The discussion with mods will still have it's merits, as the site may promote the event.

Anyway .. as the treatment might actually worsen the situation, I want to be sure we are clear about this. We are not pushing you into this. We can't carry the risks, even if we wanted. It's your decision, your responsibility. It would be good to get detail about the treatment, and who knows, maybe there is more people here who do know more.

 

[xoul]

I've asked on veterans forum, but so far it get little attention, I guess, Christmass and all. If you can use one more different site with other options with little effort, sure, go ahead.
The discussion with mods will still have it's merits, as the site may promote the event.

Anyway .. as the treatment might actually worsen the situation, I want to be sure we are clear about this. We are not pushing you into this. We can't carry the risks, even if we wanted. It's your decision, your responsibility. It would be good to get detail about the treatment, and who knows, maybe there is more people here who do know more.

I fully understand. I actually sent several questions to their clinic several months ago to try to get some insight on possible risks and other things. Here is the questions I asked and the answers from their associate Josh, who was actually very helpful and detailed in his answers:

(His preface) We do see a lot of eye patients. I would say we see at least one eye patient a week. Generally speaking the eye patients do very, very well. We have had several patients that were completely blind regain some or all of their sight. Others with diminished eyesight have improved acuity, color blindness, night blindness, etc.


1. Since this deals with an eye condition, will the stem cells be implanted directly into the eye? Can you elaborate on the details of the procedure?

Answer: The stem cells are not injected directly into the eyeball itself. They are administered via three different routes: They will be administered into an IV in the arm, intranasally in a spray up the nose (this allows them to pass into the CNS and track down the optic nerve), and retrobulbarly with a needle (this is an injection given underneath and behind the eyeball).

2. Has your clinic ever performed this procedure for an eye-related condition? If so, was it successful?

Answer: We see all types of eye conditions: optic nerve injuries, macular degeneration, retinitis pigmentosa, diabetic retinopathy, glaucoma, etc. We have seen very good success with eye conditions.

3. What are the risks?

Answers: The risks from the stem cells themselves are very minimal. In fact, I've never seen a published paper attributing any sort of serious adverse event to an adult stem cell (if you do your own research remember that these are much different than embryonic and don't carry the tumor or rejection risks that they do). Risks from the procedure itself do exist, but again they are quite minimal. There is a chance of infection or bleeding or doctor error. We have never had any of these things happen in performing over 1000 procedures and I don't expect anything serious to ever happen, but there is a chance because it is a minimally invasive procedure.

4. How many days will I need to be there?

Answer: The full treatment lasts 2 days. The first day is a consultation day with the doctor which lasts about 1-2 hours. The second day is the day of the procedure. The fat is extracted from the body via a mini liposuction-like technique in the morning. It takes about 4 hours for our lab to process this fat and concentrate the stem cells down for injection back into the body. The injections are done in the afternoon through several different methods and the patients are usually done at about 5 to 8pm that night. We are an outpatient facility so you do need hotel accommodations for at least 2 nights. We do have hotels that work with us and provide shuttle service to and from the airport as well as to and from our clinic.

5. Do you follow up with patients post-treatment?

Answer: We do not require patients to return to the clinic for follow-up as most of our patients are from out of state or out of country, but they are welcome to if they wish. Follow-up will be done over the phone with the treating physician. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to contact us and we will be happy to assist you in any way we can.

6. Approximately how long does it typically take to notice results?

Answer: It varies quite a lot on how long it takes to see results. We have had some eye patients that have seen increased acuity very quickly (within weeks). One of our patients that was completely blind started seeing lights at about 6 months, black and white at about 9 months and then in color at about 1 year. It was almost as if his eyesight had to be rebuilt. So basically it could be anywhere in between a few weeks to a year.

7. Do the the cells ever die/cease working?

Answer: The stem cells don't 'cease working,' but they do change into other cells. When a stem cell first goes in it secretes over 60 different types of growth factors and cytokines. These have many properties that aid in healing and regeneration of tissue. They also receive signals from the surrounding tissue which essentially tell them what they need to become. Over the course of 6-9 months they slowly change into new cells. At this point they become just like any other cell in that area. They essentially are no longer 'stem cells,' they are now retinal cells or nerve cells (neurons) or whatever cell that they have changed into.

He also finished his email with: I did leave a message for you the other day because I wanted to talk with you a little about your condition. We have seen optic nerve atrophy/scarring and macular degeneration (damage to the macula/retina) improve, but we are not sure how the stem cells will react to retinal scarring. We do believe they have the potential to repair retinal damage, but we are unsure if they can repair a large scar on the optic disc/retina. I hope this helps to answer your questions. If you need anything else, let me know.

So to me, the real uncertainty is how the cells will react to scarred retinal tissue. But, I am willing to take the risks.

Again, thank you all for the tremendous support!

 

[jcranmer]

Unfortunately, no. When they performed the vitrectomy, it removed the blood you see on my avatar, but the burned/scarred retina tissue is still unchanged to this day. I still have the same sized blind spot (scotoma).

Wow, I just had a vitrectomy to remove blood due to a hemorrhage. It was non laser related, I'm a type 1 diabetic and have been for about 30 years. I am still waiting for my vision to return in the surgical eye. So far the procedure has left me worse then the hemorrhage did, since now the blood is mixed with the much thinner fluid in my eye. Instead of causing blobs and streaks of black, now it's like trying to see though a glass of thin milk. :undecided:

Mine is expected to clear up soon, so far it's only been two weeks. How long did it take for you to heal from the procedure?

 

[xoul]

Wow, I just had a vitrectomy to remove blood due to a hemorrhage. It was non laser related, I'm a type 1 diabetic and have been for about 30 years. I am still waiting for my vision to return in the surgical eye. So far the procedure has left me worse then the hemorrhage did, since now the blood is mixed with the much thinner fluid in my eye. Instead of causing blobs and streaks of black, now it's like trying to see though a glass of thin milk. :undecided:

Mine is expected to clear up soon, so far it's only been two weeks. How long did it take for you to heal from the procedure?

I honestly can't remember exactly how long it was - it's been so long ago. Perhaps a month or so before the redness in my eye died down and vision returned to mostly normal - it wasn't very quick. I still have a feeling like there's higher pressure or as if someone is slightly pushing my eye. I reported this on one of my follow-ups but they just told me my pressure was normal and couldn't see any issues with it. That sensation was worse in the beginning, it doesn't bother me nearly as much, now.

Wishing you well on your recovery!

 

[xoul]

Just wanted to let you all know that I should now have the donation site configured to accept paypal, if you wish to donate via paypal. Thanks again, everyone!

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/1ym3/stem-cell-treatment-for-laser-damaged-eye

 

[Escher]

Just shared on my Facebook timeline...

Hey guys - if we all like his page he will get a lot more hits and hopefully more support for the treatment!

Best of luck my friend!

 

[DrSid]

Ok guys, X-mass are over, you can't skip this anymore ! I finally donated small amount, and I made my sig to call for help. If you want to use the sig too, send me PM, I will send you the code. Or you can make a better one :beer:

 

[xoul]

Thank you very much Escher, Sid, and everyone else for the generous donations that have been received so far! I never expected this much reaction. For those of you who may be wondering, the "deadline" on the donation site is not valid. The site forced me to put a deadline, but it can be extended. I plan to just keep extending the deadline as long as needed (or as long as they let me, but I don't think there's a limit to extensions).

Thanks again!

 

[Atomicrox]

First of all, I'm really sorry about your condition. I also have to say I read this post from time to time... we all start to get reckless eventually and this serves as a good reminder not to.

I'll give you my 2 cents on the stem cell therapy. Please understand that I absolutely don't want to take away your hopes, on the contrary - I want to make sure you make an informed decision before doing this.

I'm no expert and I have done no research on the subject but a few things about that treatment have tickled my mistrust:

-A few months before you said they gave you a price for a treatment without having seen the specifics of your case. It shouldn't go like this, specially for an "experimental" treatment. They should have made a personal appointment to examine you, analyse your case and determine not only the price but IF the treatment would be appropriate nd HOW it would be done. When working with something new you don't just pull a generic, pre-cooked answer up your sleeve.

-The fact they don't DEMAND medium/long term follow-ups. How the hell do they know their treatments are being successful? What if something goes wrong (and it could - biology isn't math), how are they gonna find out early and fix it? Let me give you an example - my mom did refractive surgery, which is an "old", well understood technology and she still had to return to the doctor a few times during the first post-surgery year. And that's a good thing, it shows the doctor gives a shit about you.

-They didn't have ONE infection in over 1000 treatments? That seems very, very far fetched.

-From their website:

Naturopathic physicians are Doctors/Licensed Primary Care Providers with Prescription Rights (prescribing up to DEA Class II narcotics) who are specialists in holistic diagnosis and natural therapeutics.

Sounds like pseudoscience to me. I would never trust my health to any clinic that dabbles in - please forgive my wording - bullshit. Note that I didn't read their whole site, but as soon as I saw that name it rang a bell.

Maybe it's just me being too paranoid but better be safe than sorry.

If you are serious about carrying on with this treatment please do a lot more research into the subject, read some peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject (might ask them which ones they base their treatments on), make sure you talk to their doctors (and verify they are actual doctors), try to get in contact with some of their eye patients and ask them about their outcomes. And most important of all - get a second, a third and a fourth opinion, from other doctors and other clinics.

Edit: reading my post again it looks like I'm bashing all stem cell treatments. I'm not and I think they have a LOT of potential to fix many problems, including yours. But this one sounds sketchy to me..