regalis
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Have fun with your new high-power-module 
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FrozenGate by Avery
FS: "Mosquito" Version 2 - All In One 1.2W+ 445nm Modules - 1667 mA
- Thread starter rhd
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rhd
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IN THE OP - adding it here for subscribers' benefits:
"A Humbling Lesson in Selling to Fellow Enthusiasts"
Well, after perhaps half a dozen sales on LPF, to perhaps 3 dozen elsewhere, I'm sad to say that selling these at $75 to the LPF community is proving to be a huge loss-leader. The LPF sales have proven to be a money-loosing proposition. Some may find it interesting to read my reasons.
At $75, the Mosquitoes are not a sustainable item on LPF
At $75 to the community (less than I was selling them for elsewhere), I was making them with almost no profit margin on LPF (perhaps $12). When I produced a batch of 10, there were generally 1 to 2 diodes that couldn't handle the high 1,666mA currents that these are being run at, which meant that it effectively took 12 diodes to produce 10 modules. The LPF sales were a zero profit margin endeavor with that consideration in mind.
However, that wasn't the deal killer.
I wasn't trying to make any kind of substantial profit here. These were meant as really easy drop-in modules for people who were getting stared in the hobby. They were supposed to be a quick and easy way to get a good functioning high powered blue laser for inquisitive new entrants into the community who were not yet ready to jump into a complete DIY yet. I wanted to sell them at an awesome price, as a way to get new entrants into the hobby engaged in doing more than just posting a thread in the BST saying "WTB: 1W blue laser!!!!"
Of course, anyone is free to purchase anything from me, and it would be crazy (even borderline sleazy and unethical) to say "no vets allowed". My skin cringes. But, as a junior-mini-semi-vet (fair characterization I hope), I can certainly attest to the fact that we have high expectations in the laser hobby community. Heck, even five or six builds into the hobby, most hobbyests start to develop high expectations. Again, that's cool, and that's why we're on the cutting edge of a fringe hobby, those high expectations are a good thing.
Unfortunately, it also makes the idea of a really low-cost all-in-one laser module, unsustainable.
Of the half a dozen LPF sales, 3 of those have proven to take more time and overhead than the entirety of all 35-ish sales I've made elsewhere. In the end, those 3 LPF sales have done relatively little for my feeling of having contributed something positive to the community, that others were happy about. So, at almost zero profit, it just doesn't make sense to keep producing these.
Despite my own (perhaps naive) notion of who the target market for these modules would be, the sales on LPF have generally been to somewhat experienced users, who are drawn to the notion of saving some build time, with LPMs, and power expectations to go with them.
If I was selling these for $100
Then I'd cherry-pick high efficiency diodes, custom set the current on each driver, LPM each module, include chart printouts with the purchases, and warrant every sale with a power guarantee.
But I didn't want to sell these for $100 as a premium item, nor does it do any good to continue selling them for $75 to members who consistently expect high efficiency diodes. Not when 1/3rd of the buyers get low efficiency diodes and are unhappy, 1/3rd are lukewarm, and only the remaining 1/3rd (who get high efficiency diodes) are really happy (yet tend to remain silent anyway). It's loose/loose/win for me, and I'm just not cool putting my name behind a proposition with odds that are so poorly stacked against me. In the end, this was a cool idea, but I messed up in determining the target market.
Now what?
First and foremost, to the two purchasers with Mosquitoes in the mail right now - you'll of course get my full attention and support through your process of building your lasers. That doesn't change just because I'm not selling these going forward.
In figuring out what to do next with this thread, and with this concept, my first gut thought was "Post the Eagle PCB file on the forum, donate it to the public, and let everyone use it however they see fit!". I love this idea - it's totally in line with my approach to contributing to the community.
But then it occurred to me that while the V3 of this module was designed by me from the ground up, the V1 and V2 were designed for me by another forum member. While I gave him a 445 diode as a thank-you, the designs really should be seen as the result of his brain-power, not mine. So ethically speaking, the V1 and V2 schematics and PCB designs are not mine to give away. However, the V3 (which would have been very cool!) IS. So V3, once the boards arrive and I can test that the schematic + design works, will be donated to the forum. The V3 schematic / PCB is a quad AMC-7135 driver, that is smaller than V1/V2, and has a substantially lower voltage dropout.
I'm considering selling a "Mosquito Kit", consisting of a driver, diode (pressed), lens, wires, spring, and then a bunch of resistor combinations so that purchasers can set their own current, attach the diode in whatever configuration they want, add leads and a spring, etc. We'll see. I'd love feedback as to whether this would be a valuable contribution to the community, or whether I'd be likely to wind up saying the same thing as above, a month from now.
I also have a very cool "Mosquito Red" driver in the works for our 635 Mitsubishis, that I may sell on it's own. Stay tuned for that. And of course, the big whopper project (project "NovaLuxy") that I've been engaged in for 4 or 5 months now, is looking fairly close to some tangible success.
-------------
"A Humbling Lesson in Selling to Fellow Enthusiasts"
Well, after perhaps half a dozen sales on LPF, to perhaps 3 dozen elsewhere, I'm sad to say that selling these at $75 to the LPF community is proving to be a huge loss-leader. The LPF sales have proven to be a money-loosing proposition. Some may find it interesting to read my reasons.
At $75, the Mosquitoes are not a sustainable item on LPF
At $75 to the community (less than I was selling them for elsewhere), I was making them with almost no profit margin on LPF (perhaps $12). When I produced a batch of 10, there were generally 1 to 2 diodes that couldn't handle the high 1,666mA currents that these are being run at, which meant that it effectively took 12 diodes to produce 10 modules. The LPF sales were a zero profit margin endeavor with that consideration in mind.
However, that wasn't the deal killer.
I wasn't trying to make any kind of substantial profit here. These were meant as really easy drop-in modules for people who were getting stared in the hobby. They were supposed to be a quick and easy way to get a good functioning high powered blue laser for inquisitive new entrants into the community who were not yet ready to jump into a complete DIY yet. I wanted to sell them at an awesome price, as a way to get new entrants into the hobby engaged in doing more than just posting a thread in the BST saying "WTB: 1W blue laser!!!!"
Of course, anyone is free to purchase anything from me, and it would be crazy (even borderline sleazy and unethical) to say "no vets allowed". My skin cringes. But, as a junior-mini-semi-vet (fair characterization I hope), I can certainly attest to the fact that we have high expectations in the laser hobby community. Heck, even five or six builds into the hobby, most hobbyests start to develop high expectations. Again, that's cool, and that's why we're on the cutting edge of a fringe hobby, those high expectations are a good thing.
Unfortunately, it also makes the idea of a really low-cost all-in-one laser module, unsustainable.
Of the half a dozen LPF sales, 3 of those have proven to take more time and overhead than the entirety of all 35-ish sales I've made elsewhere. In the end, those 3 LPF sales have done relatively little for my feeling of having contributed something positive to the community, that others were happy about. So, at almost zero profit, it just doesn't make sense to keep producing these.
Despite my own (perhaps naive) notion of who the target market for these modules would be, the sales on LPF have generally been to somewhat experienced users, who are drawn to the notion of saving some build time, with LPMs, and power expectations to go with them.
If I was selling these for $100
Then I'd cherry-pick high efficiency diodes, custom set the current on each driver, LPM each module, include chart printouts with the purchases, and warrant every sale with a power guarantee.
But I didn't want to sell these for $100 as a premium item, nor does it do any good to continue selling them for $75 to members who consistently expect high efficiency diodes. Not when 1/3rd of the buyers get low efficiency diodes and are unhappy, 1/3rd are lukewarm, and only the remaining 1/3rd (who get high efficiency diodes) are really happy (yet tend to remain silent anyway). It's loose/loose/win for me, and I'm just not cool putting my name behind a proposition with odds that are so poorly stacked against me. In the end, this was a cool idea, but I messed up in determining the target market.
Now what?
First and foremost, to the two purchasers with Mosquitoes in the mail right now - you'll of course get my full attention and support through your process of building your lasers. That doesn't change just because I'm not selling these going forward.
In figuring out what to do next with this thread, and with this concept, my first gut thought was "Post the Eagle PCB file on the forum, donate it to the public, and let everyone use it however they see fit!". I love this idea - it's totally in line with my approach to contributing to the community.
But then it occurred to me that while the V3 of this module was designed by me from the ground up, the V1 and V2 were designed for me by another forum member. While I gave him a 445 diode as a thank-you, the designs really should be seen as the result of his brain-power, not mine. So ethically speaking, the V1 and V2 schematics and PCB designs are not mine to give away. However, the V3 (which would have been very cool!) IS. So V3, once the boards arrive and I can test that the schematic + design works, will be donated to the forum. The V3 schematic / PCB is a quad AMC-7135 driver, that is smaller than V1/V2, and has a substantially lower voltage dropout.
I'm considering selling a "Mosquito Kit", consisting of a driver, diode (pressed), lens, wires, spring, and then a bunch of resistor combinations so that purchasers can set their own current, attach the diode in whatever configuration they want, add leads and a spring, etc. We'll see. I'd love feedback as to whether this would be a valuable contribution to the community, or whether I'd be likely to wind up saying the same thing as above, a month from now.
I also have a very cool "Mosquito Red" driver in the works for our 635 Mitsubishis, that I may sell on it's own. Stay tuned for that. And of course, the big whopper project (project "NovaLuxy") that I've been engaged in for 4 or 5 months now, is looking fairly close to some tangible success.
-------------
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So did u send mine or not ? as i dont know if i am one of those 2..
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rhd
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Lol, yes sir, I did. I'm sympathetic to the plight of mobile readers now that we don't have an LPF mobile app anymore, so I'll cut and paste the relevant portion of my post for you
"First and foremost, to the two purchasers with Mosquitoes in the mail right now - you'll of course get my full attention and support through your process of building your lasers. That doesn't change just because I'm not selling these going forward."
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Thx, its not so much the fact that im a mobile user, its just that my phone in particular is retarded slow.
It gets stuck every few seconds, forcing me to press the top button twice, off, on, then HOPE i'm able to get the slider moving, and carry on for a few seconds ....
Ill post some pics and a review of whatever i do with it (prolly the hotlight, but maybe something else ..)
Even tough im a fish here, thanks for what your doing for the community!!
It gets stuck every few seconds, forcing me to press the top button twice, off, on, then HOPE i'm able to get the slider moving, and carry on for a few seconds ....
Ill post some pics and a review of whatever i do with it (prolly the hotlight, but maybe something else ..)
Even tough im a fish here, thanks for what your doing for the community!!
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Sad to here these go, but I was wondering how you were sustaining this! Anyway, I can't wait to see that V3! Still going to sell me a board? ^_^
rhd
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Definitely - I promised ya that - and I'm going to have a few extras now anyway.
In fact, I see that you've added custom heatsinks to your sig. Maybe we can trade?
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Sure! Sounds like a plan! I always love working in the shop! 
jcranmer
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@rhd: That's a bummer. I was going to grab one of those from you in the not too distant future.
rhd
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Sorry about that
I'll probably put together a "kit" - saving members some shipping costs by offering diode+lens+driver+module all in one stop. I think there's some benefit to that. But I'd let purchasers choose their diode attachment configuration, and set their own current with a few different resistor combos. That seems like a little safer / happier / less stressful approach.
jayrob
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Why not keep selling them, but make your price $100 bucks?? :beer:
No cherry picking diodes unless for more...
No cherry picking diodes unless for more...
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rhd
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That's certainly doable. At $100 it would be within the margin that I could produce these modules, test + LPM each one.
I just feel like the price tag of $100 wouldn't be attractive?
jayrob
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Parts:
* Diode
* Module
* Glass lens
* Driver
* Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive
Labor:
* Assembly
* Testing
I've seen the quality of your work. I have one of your modules, and I think it's well worth $100 bucks... :beer:
P.S. You also seem to be very honest, and concerned about your customer satisfaction. A great seller...
You must also protect yourself with a honest and fair protection clause for you as the seller. Because if somebody damages the driver in some way, it cannot fall on you...
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rhd
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This is really kind feedback guys, thank you.
I'll take it to heart. I was really excited about the 3rd version of the Mosquito, so maybe I'll take the advice and continue to offer it. I'll offer it at $100, and with an LPM chart included in each purchase.
The V3 design is really neat. 8mm wide PCB, so that it will easily fit within a heatsink. Really low dropout (in the few hundreds of mW range).
I'm going to sleep on this, and of course take any other feedback that comes in from this thread. I'm expecting the PCBs early this coming week, and the tiny little ICs have already arrived from China. I'll pay attention to this thread, and update my approach to selling the Mosquito with the 3rd version, and then relaunch this at some point towards the end of the week. This has been an interesting learning experience.
