Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

[DTR]

Good info.

Running your 405 for ten minutes. That's ballsy.

Do you have a picture of the testing setup to get a better idea how the sensors are placed on the host?

 

[jayrob]

There appears to be a discussion going on here DTR. you don't have to read this post. that what unsubscribe is for.

I have received numerous emails from people reading these threads thanking me for the information and sharing my experiences. So there is some value here especially for people trying to decide which kit to get. You have built many lasers, lost parts presumably, and don't need to know this stuff. So i am not sure why you are telling me to stop posting. I have posted my experiences, answered people's questions, explained ESD, shared aspects of the different kits, etc. This is all useful information. If its not something you are interested in then just unsubscribe.

Also, related to the customer service issues I had with jayrob and FP: i don't really care. i had some issues, brought them to their attention, and i posted my experiences. i am not at all demanding they do anything. they have made their points and so i have.

so as far as i can tell this thread is full of useful, valuable, interesting information that benefits a good many people. other parts of the discussion are a small part of the thread such as FP claiming i was lying and not proving this to be true. or discussions about opinions around warranties.

we've also learned that other parts suppliers such as digi-key, provide a warranty and if you were to buy something from them and it died they might replace it even if it user error was involved.

all in all, good stuff. if its making you angry, unsubscribe.

but you inadvertently made a point which i agree with: i have covered all the issues and so there is not really much else to say. so i will not post anything about these customer service issues, parts replacement, etc. however as i continue to work with these two kits i will provide data and learning but i will most likely do that in the first post (i want to measure heat dissipation, duty cycles etc). if anyone asks me a question in the thread i will answer it, however. but you are right, there is no more to be said around the parts issues.

Some of the things you talk about are informative, and you are doing some interesting measurements with heat dissipation and so forth...

But you fail to see that your accusations are damaging to my reputation, and it is not warranted...

I'm speaking only of myself here. I don't want to argue for flamminpyro because your transaction with him is not my business.

But you have no ground to make negative statements towards my customer service. And you have done so on several occasions.

This is where you fail... You seem very intelligent. But why is it that you fail to see this point?

 

[Kevlar]

Plexus, I never did see a definitive answer on how you driver died using Jayrob's kit. Did one of the wires detach from the diode or the driver because the pill and heatsink did not turn together or was it because you didn't insulate the driver from the host?

If you do not know how can you blame Jayrob for his kit? You knew yourself what his kit consisted of before you put it together, did you not? I assume you read his tutorial and you said yourself you did some dry runs, without the driver and diode, turning the pill and heatsink together to make sure you could do it.

I haven't purchased the same kit you did from Jayrob but I did buy his SS CR2 kit which has the same basic principals ( the pill and heatsink must be turned together). When I first put i together I couldn't understand how it was done myself but I PM'd Jayrob and he explained it to me and with his instructions I successfully assembled it.

 

[WLHostage]

point out to me where i say the diode you sold me was not working from the beginning.

also if you want i will post our PMs. i made it very clear the diode was working then stopped working and you suggested a variety of things that might have caused this due to my error. i addressed each issue and in each case i made no such errors.

there is no conspiracy here. i bought i diode from you, i built it into a laser properly observing all safety and best practices and even more so with the use of a Lasorb. the diode worked, and then it died. i replaced it with a 12x 405 in the exact same build and that laser has been working fine. there were no shorts. the driver was not damaged. the evidence suggests the diode malfunctioned and only after less than an hour of use. you bid me a "have a good day" and I posted my experiences here.

this is a forum for sharing knowledge and experiences and to provide input and insight into this hobby. it is unfortunate that you chose to handle the situation the way you did, but there it is. that was your decision. had you told me from beginning that there was no warranty on the diode, there would not be a problem. no expectations were set by you or jayrob other than i would be "taken care of" by the both of you.

lesson learned: if you are selling things to people. you should tell about your your return and exchange policy. if you buying things from people and they dont tell you what their policy is, ASK!

outside of that, one can argue there is a warrany implied, or there isn't. but since the sellers did not specify either, its simply a matter of opinion. (and not worth arguing about)

as for how does a shorted out diode get damaged by ESD. simple the ESD travels through the shorted leads to the substrate. shorting the leads offers no protection from ESD. if you don't believe me, take your diode, short the leads, apply ESD and test the diode. it will be dead.

I think that was likely in response to my post where I stated that he sent a non functional diode (that was my understanding at the time). However, if he sent you a functional diode, that you installed and were able to use and then it burned out on you that's more of a grey area. Technically in this case the seller met his obligation, he sent you a working diode. It's possible it simply burnt out on you that quickly, but looking at it from his perspective it is far more likely that you simply pushed it beyond it's limits and burned it out and would now like a new one.

None of us knows what really happened, but if it was working when you got it... I probably would not expect a new one to be shipped, it would be nice if it was, but I wouldn't expect it.

 

[plexus]

Learn to use the multiquote and the edit buttons

Plexus, I never did see a definitive answer on how you driver died using Jayrob's kit. Did one of the wires detach from the diode or the driver because the pill and heatsink did not turn together or was it because you didn't insulate the driver from the host? [snip]

This thread is a review of my experiences with the jayrob and flaminpyro SS032 kits and my experiences dealing with them. i am not going to reiterate what happened and what i said (its in the thread somewhere). i did not make a fuss about either of them in either instance of a component failure. neither expressed a warranty policy and so i asked them about it (in jayrobs case due to my error using his hard to use kit, and in flayminpyro's case an expensive laser diode suspect of being damaged before it came to me). it is as simple as that. i told each of them what happened and asked if they could provide any compensation or support and they said no.

Why do i expect this level of support? because no post-sale warranty was ever discussed and some retailers will provide this level of service. flaminpyro brought up a good example being digi-key, that will work you to find a suitable solution even if a part breaks because of user error. They have a Return of Evaluation process and i was told by their customer service they will work with you to provide a replacement part, it might require a restocking fee or be free.

I do not feel it is unreasonable to tell these sellers what happened and ask if they can provide any support on it. I did and posted their replies. Their reply is not my problem. Its up to the next person to decide if its reasonable or not. I wish they had both told me what their warranty policy was. Only jayrob offered some insight into this when he kept telling me "i will take care of you". it is apparently up to the retailer to offer their warranty policy up front as can be seen by almost every retailer out there. its printed on their web sites and receipts so there can be no misunderstanding.

Can we please leave it at that? This thread is a shoot out between these two kit builders and their kits. I am not going to say anymore about this issue of warranty. If you want to carry on discussing it, that's fine, I can't stop you. However if I am asked or urged to reply to something about it I will not post here, but rather PM the poster.

Back to stuff specific to these two kits...

I will post a pic of the temp measuring set up later today.

Here is the test set up:

 

[Morgan]

As I pointed out in my reply to your somewhat arrogant PM...

It may not be elsewhere but here, double posting, (and for the confused, that means posting consecutive posts in the same thread within a short period of time), is considered bad etiquette on this forum. This is not a personal opinion, this is one of the, 'understood', rules to keep the forum tidy and not build your post count. You carry on if you wish. I have pointed it out to you; you have decided not simply to ignore it but to send me a PM telling me you will continue to do it. I will not mention it again as you have no doubt seen my advice, but I'm sure others will.

This is not your forum to manipulate to the way you wish it should be run. In the same way it is not mine. I work to the way LPF runs; not the other way around.

Good luck

On topic, no point posting a photo of a setup where the readings can't be seen. I'm referring to the LPM. That could be a 5mW laser. You posted an earlier pic showing an output of 1,300mW but claimed 1,500mW. I didn't see the correction that you promised for that. Some people can post information without the photos and their reputation will allow me to believe it but I'm not confident in this case.

Just how you are going to compare two similar kits with different drivers, different diodes at different settings is also questionable to me. No comparison can be made in my opinion. Even with two similar diodes, they would have to be hand picked to match each other in efficiency. This is not an, 'apples to apples', comparison, as you like to say, and therefore a wasted exercise in posting. It may be valid on an individual laser basis to see how hot one gets compared to the efficiency of what's inside but nothing can be gained from comparing the results from two different experiments.

M

 

[plexus]

Exactly it is not an apple to apple comparison. I never said it was. However the information is still useful as it shows how the two kits (and the arctic) dissipate heat. No comparisons were drawn in the conclusions. Sorry if you mistook this as a direct comparison, it is not. I will make this clearer in the original post.

Here are shots of the 3 lasers tested, after about a 1 minute run time.

Flaminpyro SH-032 copper kit, modified aixis module, 445nm A140, 405-g-1 lens, flexdrive set to 1.2A (dummy load = 5x1N504+1ohm), 1 min runtime (with jayrob focus ring)

Jayrob SH-032 copper kit, custom copper module, 12x 405nm Lite-on, 405-g-1 lens, micro boost set to 550mA (dummy load = 5x1N504+1ohm), 1 min runtime (with flaminpyro focus ring)

WL Arctic, G1, no front glass

 

[Morgan]

Right, well there's setting yourself up for another double post, (if I hadn't been the filling in your junk post sandwich). Photos of the temperatures would have come in a seperate post then, yes? You could use the edit button. It's what it's for actually.

Either give us all the information you are going to or don't bother. If I have to split my experiments up then I post as much as I can in as few posts as I can, not drag it out over days and days... It still may take me a week to post all the info but you won't see the thread keep popping up to the top every five minutes. It means other more interesting threads might not get read or someone else who requires the help of the forum gets missed. Either post the data now or go back and edit your posts and I'll come and find it if I can be bothered. I think you are starting to troll.

[EDIT: For those of you coming to this post from the Rep page, I did PM this member but his arrogance at flouting forum etiquette needed to be pointed out in public. I also happen to think that saying this thread was being dragged out by only disclosing small parts of the experiment at a time was definitely on topic. I wonder if we'll see a completed write up soon. I certainly hope so.]

M

 

[Pontiacg5]

As I pointed out in my reply to your somewhat arrogant PM...

He is an arrogant troll, sending me PM's telling me how he makes 6 figures and has a million dollar house with a bunch of cars...

Yet he cries over a $26 flexdrive and $45 diode.

He's been a troll since the get go, going on and on about how great the Arctic is (Now he's trying to sell both of his.)

I've briefly browsed the dribble he is posting as an "experiment" He obviously doesn't know what he is doing so I wouldn't trust any "data" that comes from this "experimenting"

The fact that he thinks he is better than the rest of us and can continue double posting as he sees fit after being confronted about it is just a kicker.
-rep for the double posting. It's beginning to get ridiculous.
(well crap, I can't give any more to him. Someone should though...)

 

[DrSid]

This double post aversion is ridiculous.

 

[Morgan]

^ Aversion? From Plexus, or the forum?

From a forum perspective it makes perfect sense. I mean where do you stop? 3? 100 consecutive posts? Limiting multiple posts serves a purpose. This not only keeps the forum tidy and information in one place but also prevents a false account of someone's activity. If you actually removed all the double and triple posts from Plexus then he would have about half the number of posts. This is misleading, lazy and rude as the forum etiquette requests you not to do it. Regardless whether it's aesthetic or serves some special data management purpose or not, the last reason should be reason enough. Off topic? Most definitely but for the right reason.

M

 

[plexus]

Here is some information from William Brenner at Pangolin, experts in laser diode ESD. posted with permission...

From: William R. Benner / Pangolin <wrb2@pangolin.com>
Subject: RE: questions about ESD+laser diode
Date: 19 September 2010 5:57:12 PM EDT

Hi,

Thanks for contacting me. My comments are below.​

hi there. i use your lasorbs when i build laser pointers for
my own use. i have a question. if the leads of a laser diode,
that is not in a circuit, are shorted together will this
protect the diode from ESD?

Generally yes, but there are laser diodes which have leads that are not
connected to the case. If you connect the two leads together, but leave the
case unconnected, and then if ESD approaches the case, it could be that ESD
can get to the silicon via the case. So for total protection, all parts
should be shorted. If it is a matter of transporting the laser diode, they
can be transported in Aluminum Foil which certainly offers the best
protection.​

also if the leads and the case
lead are connected together will provide any protection?

Yes, see above.​

if yes or no, do you have any research to "prove" this?

Our responses would always be based on science, so no external opinion would
ever influence our assertions.
​

also, in terms of IR, red, blue (the nichia 1W 445nm
specifically) and 405 (blu-ray, 6x-12x) - are any more
susceptible to ESD damage than others?

The lowest power laser diodes, and diodes that have aluminum in the active
region are the most sensitive. Generally this means that low power red and
VCSEL are the most sensitive.​

finally, are there common "modes" of damage that ESD imparts?
if so what are they?

You should read the books referenced on this page:
More information about ESD, from LASORB​

Best regards,
William Benner​

 

[Morgan]

So shorting all three pins on a floating case diode is protection enough from ESD. Shorting the anode and cathode pins on any diode with case positive or negative is also protection enough. Thanks for telling us what we already knew. You're a credit to the forum. (massive sarcasm)

M

 

[DrSid]

Come on people .. this post was very relevant and helpful to what was discussed before.

As Dave says .. Peace !

 

[plexus]

So shorting all three pins on a floating case diode is protection enough from ESD. Shorting the anode and cathode pins on any diode with case positive or negative is also protection enough. Thanks for telling us what we already knew. You're a credit to the forum.

The reply from Lasorb re shorting all pins, regarding ESD protection was, "Generally, yes..." but this is not an emphatic "yes". The advice to store/transport in tin foil is a good one. Anti-static bags are "ok" but not the best protection for highly sensitive devices (use google to verify). One supplier here, pontiacg5, apparently ships out his 445nm diodes in zip lock bags with cotton balls ( see post here http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/a140-diodes-stock-not-gb-42-50-shipped-54935.html#post787750

There appears to be a lack of knowledge about ESD and these devices. Already there is a question as to whether the 445 i purchased failed because of ESD, or not. Who knows. By employing good ESD practices it will help to mitigate any issues and the suppliers of these diodes really need to step up to this.

Short all leads, pack in tin foil. Dope baggies and cotton balls will not do.

 

[eugene420]

dang so there's a chance my diode I got from pontiacg5 might be a dud by now due to this
"ESD" guess I'll see this week when I press it into a Jayrob SS 18650 kit..