Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

[DrSid]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Yes .. when it is on driver, it's not big problem .. but before that, and during assembly it can come handy. Also for direct drive playing !
Here in Czech Republic it's still pretty humid, ESD season did not start yet .. but killing your diode is bad way to learn it had started.

 

[Flaminpyro]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

@ Eudaimonium What camera did you use to take these pictures ?

Your camera seems to be decent and capable doing much better macros.

Try maximum optical zoom and then get as close as you can, instead of going very close without zooming. Then , crop out everything you don't need, and then of needed resize:

ON topic

Over 1 W after optics is really too much for that host. No matter the material of heatsink, I think the duty cycle will be far from "decent". Copper has enough troubles radiating heat into sorroundings as it is.

Your driver will overheat from excessive current, and start strobing after a few seconds of use.

Your battery, if not highest quality available, won't stand that much current draw which is around 1.5-1.7 A (modest estimation), not for long at least.

I'd decrease that.

Nice solder work, though.

 

[Eudaimonium]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

@ Eudaimonium What camera did you use to take these pictures ?

Olympus E400, with stock 45mm lens.

Just maximum zoom, long exposure and flash, very low ISO, good lightning and tripod.

Since it's 10.0 MPIX, you just crop out everything you don't need. That up there is like, 10 % of actual image shot.

 

[plexus]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I wanted to let you know of my customer experiences with jayrob and flaminpyro. First of all, they are both very responsive to emails and very helpful in terms of helping to determine what I needed in achieve my goals (best quality build components). They both will answer questions in a useful and direct way. And if I had any concerns or special requests they were also responsive and helpful.

I am going to post a review of their SH-032 copper kits. In terms of customer service I had an issue with each seller.

With jayrob, I found his kit hard to work with because of the need to screw in the heatsink retainer ring (stock) while ensuring the copper heatsink spins exactly in sync with the retainer ring. I was very very careful about this and gave it a few trial runs with no driver installed so i could get the hang of it. When i got it together, no light. I removed it, again being very careful to turn the two at the same time. What happened was there was some difference in them spinning together and there was a short that killed the flex drive. When i told jayrob about this and what a pain it was to deal with his design his reply was "its just a different design, not better or worse". in other words, i was on my own. Granted, it wasn't anything he did that caused this problem, nor did his product "break". but the point is, there was no support other than a "sorry for you loss". so after you buy from jayrob, assume you are on your own if you have any malfunctions due to the nature of his kit where the components needs to be meticulously spun together. assume you are on your own and possibly ensure all electrical connections are insulated in the event you don't turn them exactly right. jayrob will offer condolences, but there will be no offer to help with the costs associated with damaged components.

With flaminpyro, I purchased the some host kit. His kit is much easier to deal with than jayrobs because its a single copper piece that replaces the retainer ring. nothing to screw in meticulously. also there is more room in the heat sink to work with (although this means less copper which I will address in my review). In this case, everything went well and the 445 worked. However, at one point from a cold start it started flashing on and off regularly. i turned it off immediately thinking the micro boost i used was over heating. i let it sit for about 10 min and turned it on and the LD came on for 1 sec and went out. dead. I took it apart and saw no issues. I tested the driver on my dummy load and it appeared to be working. I removed the lasorb from the 445 LD, installed it on a new 12x 405 and connected it to the micro boost after dropping the current down to 500mA. It came on properly. I disconnected the LD and put it on the 445 LD I bought from flaminpyro. nothing. back on the 405. worked. conclusion: the 445 LD i bought from flaminpyro died and not from a problem with the build.

After I explained all this to flaminpyro he agreed it was the LD but refused to provide any compensation citing that if the LD was the issue, then the issue would be with casio or nichia. I explained that as a retailer his responsibility is to his customer (me). But I told him I would not tell him what to do but that he should do what he felt was the right thing to do. With that he bid me a nice day (eg. no refund or other compensation). I would have agreed to split the loss and buy another one from him at 1/2 price, or something like that but no offer was made. So again, with flaminpyro if you have a problem you will likely be on your own with it.

Just letting you know. They are both very helpful and wonderful to deal with pre-sale, but post-sale if you have a problem with a component they will not offer a refund or exchange.

And just to add some context, I was in the business of providing a delicate specialized tool for another hobby. I opened myself up as a retailer. In that process, some people complained about the tool breaking. My initial policy was no refund or exchange because I couldn't verify if the tool broke because of user error or not. But then I realized that as a retailer, I have a responsibility to my customers. So I changed my policy to one exchange only. This way if it was a fault of my build, the replacement would mitigate that. I just felt it was the right thing to do.

 

[jayrob]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I wanted to let you know of my customer experiences with jayrob and flaminpyro. First of all, they are both very responsive to emails and very helpful in terms of helping to determine what I needed in achieve my goals (best quality build components). They both will answer questions in a useful and direct way. And if I had any concerns or special requests they were also responsive and helpful.

I am going to post a review of their SH-032 copper kits. In terms of customer service I had an issue with each seller.

With jayrob, I found his kit hard to work with because of the need to screw in the heatsink retainer ring (stock) while ensuring the copper heatsink spins exactly in sync with the retainer ring. I was very very careful about this and gave it a few trial runs with no driver installed so i could get the hang of it. When i got it together, no light. I removed it, again being very careful to turn the two at the same time. What happened was there was some difference in them spinning together and there was a short that killed the flex drive. When i told jayrob about this and what a pain it was to deal with his design his reply was "its just a different design, not better or worse". in other words, i was on my own. Granted, it wasn't anything he did that caused this problem, nor did his product "break". but the point is, there was no support other than a "sorry for you loss". so after you buy from jayrob, assume you are on your own if you have any malfunctions due to the nature of his kit where the components needs to be meticulously spun together. assume you are on your own and possibly ensure all electrical connections are insulated in the event you don't turn them exactly right. jayrob will offer condolences, but there will be no offer to help with the costs associated with damaged components.

With flaminpyro, I purchased the some host kit. His kit is much easier to deal with than jayrobs because its a single copper piece that replaces the retainer ring. nothing to screw in meticulously. also there is more room in the heat sink to work with (although this means less copper which I will address in my review). In this case, everything went well and the 445 worked. However, at one point from a cold start it started flashing on and off regularly. i turned it off immediately thinking the micro boost i used was over heating. i let it sit for about 10 min and turned it on and the LD came on for 1 sec and went out. dead. I took it apart and saw no issues. I tested the driver on my dummy load and it appeared to be working. I removed the lasorb from the 445 LD, installed it on a new 12x 405 and connected it to the micro boost after dropping the current down to 500mA. It came on properly. I disconnected the LD and put it on the 445 LD I bought from flaminpyro. nothing. back on the 405. worked. conclusion: the 445 LD i bought from flaminpyro died and not from a problem with the build.

After I explained all this to flaminpyro he agreed it was the LD but refused to provide any compensation citing that if the LD was the issue, then the issue would be with casio or nichia. I explained that as a retailer his responsibility is to his customer (me). But I told him I would not tell him what to do but that he should do what he felt was the right thing to do. With that he bid me a nice day (eg. no refund or other compensation). I would have agreed to split the loss and buy another one from him at 1/2 price, or something like that but no offer was made. So again, with flaminpyro if you have a problem you will likely be on your own with it.

Just letting you know. They are both very helpful and wonderful to deal with pre-sale, but post-sale if you have a problem with a component they will not offer a refund or exchange.

And just to add some context, I was in the business of providing a delicate specialized tool for another hobby. I opened myself up as a retailer. In that process, some people complained about the tool breaking. My initial policy was no refund or exchange because I couldn't verify if the tool broke because of user error or not. But then I realized that as a retailer, I have a responsibility to my customers. So I changed my policy to one exchange only. This way if it was a fault of my build, the replacement would mitigate that. I just felt it was the right thing to do.

Actually I always try to help in any reasonable way I can, if you have questions or concerns after the sale...

But is it reasonable that I should replace your driver or your diode if the damage was caused by you? (I didn't even sell you the driver or diode) In fact, I don't sell diodes...

What I did when you told me about it, was to explain a couple of different methods of how to assemble it safely. I do feel for you...

We have all lost a driver or a diode, and it is always a bummer. But you surely cannot expect me to pay for your accident that occurred during assembly??

Even if I did the 'Hot' option. (which I did not) It was still something that happened during your assembly.

The assembly is a little tricky at first. But once you learn how to do it, there is not a problem. I give tips in my thread, as well as in my instruction sheet. There is also a special tool that I offer to help. This tool is shown near the bottom of my thread. It is a tool that can be very helpful not only for this particular kit, but also for other builds. Such as pens and stuff like that...

So in my defense, I don't feel it's fair to say I offer no support after the sale. I am a very reasonable person. But this example is not a reasonable request...

 

[Coherent Light]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I would have to side with Jayrob on this one. I found myself in a similar position with a purchase from daguin. I bought a 10x and after I harvested it, it was DOA, but I didn't expect daguin to give Me a new diode or a discount. This hobby has it's risks for both the sellers and the buyers, and there will aways be a Grey Area of responsibility.

Sorry to tread on Your review, but I felt My experience is appropriate here.

 

[paulzimm]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

In his defense, Jayrob has been more than helpful in advising me with my custom build. This is a DIY hobby and it does come with some risks. These risks are what makes this hobby so much fun! Heck, what other hobby can you so easily risk losing an eyeball

If I totaled my car because I incorrectly installed brake pads, it's not like I can go back to the store and ask them to buy me another car. I wanted to save some money and do it myself - so I must accept the risk. Now if you paid someone to do it for you, then that would be a completely different story. You could just as easily purchase a brand new or custom DIY unit at a premium. In my opinion, most of the fun is actually in making it yourself!

I feel for you my friend, I have the same exact SS 18650 host on order...

 

[DTR]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I definitely feel for you. It's one of the worst feelings when a build fails. But to say that Jay does not provide service after the fact is not fair. I owe a lot of the knowledge that I have gained for this hobby to Jay. I have countless PM's with mind numbing questions for him that he answered quickly and informatively. Never giving me the go away and search response. I also have quite a few of his builds and some may be tricky but they all are very well constructed.

On another note I found a good way of putting this host together. I used some sockets and a pair of pliers to pinch the pill and heatsink together. Then you can twist the head on without binding it. This pic is from the SS 10440 but the concept is the same.

 

[EnergyCoherence]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

On another note I found a good way of putting this host together. I used some sockets and a pair of pliers to pinch the pill and heatsink together. Then you can twist the head on without binding it. This pic is from the SS 10440 but the concept is the same.

Good idea, but will it work for the 18650 kit, which would be slightly larger? I didn't order a tool, so I am kind of worried about damaging it. I was thinking why not add some type of interlock to the pill and heatsink so they can not twist when inserting into the host? Maybe that would be more complex and cost more, but I think it could be done.

 

[jayrob]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

That's a good idea...

Another simple idea, is to use a small amount of thermal adhesive between the heatsink and the pill...

I say 'small amount', because you don't want it so glued together that it will be difficult to take apart if you ever want to adjust the current or change the diode...

For a very easy assembly, my black 18650 kit is the one you want...
http://laserpointerforums.com/f64/fs-18650-build-kit-easy-assembly-445nm-blu-ray-red-43857.html

 

[plexus]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I would have to side with Jayrob on this one. I found myself in a similar position with a purchase from daguin. I bought a 10x and after I harvested it, it was DOA, but I didn't expect daguin to give Me a new diode or a discount. This hobby has it's risks for both the sellers and the buyers, and there will aways be a Grey Area of responsibility.

Sorry to tread on Your review, but I felt My experience is appropriate here.

hey coherent. your input is good here for sure. i agree, if you bought a sled and harvested the diode yourself and it was dead then yes, its a grey area as to whether it was dead to begin with or was killed by your harvesting. my issue is more with the LD i bought from flaminpyro which was working fine and then died yet there was nothing in the build that appeared to contribute to it. he himself agreed, in email, that it was the diode. but there was no offer to replace or refund in anyway and a rejection of my suggestion to split the difference.

with jayrob there is less of a disagreement however i wanted to point out that his SH-032 kit was a real challenge to work with and the design itself has inherent risks to it. the risks are because of the design. there are better heatsink designs (eg flaminpyro's) that would mitigate these risks. there was not even an acknowledgement from jayrob that his design has such risks and i basically resented the reply of "i am sorry for your loss". caveat emptor. my post about jayrob was to share my experiences with other builders so they are away of the risks of the build design and of the policies of the person selling it - reasonable or not.

 

[cd520]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

In your pics it shows the case pin and negative tied together and your using a microboost correct?

 

[plexus]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

In your pics it shows the case pin and negative tied together and your using a microboost correct?

in the post here http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/flaminpyro-ss-1w-445nm-build-image-heavy-55456.html#post781832 i point out that before i powered it on, i checked all the connections (and double checked, as i always do) and realized that with the micro boost the case pin needs to float. so i disconnected the case pin so the case was floating when it was powered on and later operation.

 

[DTR]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

It does look like that picture is showing the drivers positive out connected to the anode(positive) pin and the case pin on the diode? If so that would surely cause problems.

 

[plexus]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

^ read the previous post DTR and post #13

the 445 diode that died is not the one is this build or in this picture. that LD is working just fine.

 

[DTR]

Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I did not say that I thought it was this build. I was noting that cd520 thought it was the negative and the case pin and I thought it looked like the positive and the case pin. And I see this is a flexdrive not a microboost.