First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using diodes

[micheal rosen]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

To everyone suggesting to build a knife edge setup this all looks awesome from what im reading up on but im afraid for now I can't go further into the unknown since I only have a few months here and a few full time jobs basically 0_o

Below is the right direction I feel but im really hoping someone on here might have experience with these TO5 9mm 520nm Green Laser Diode Arrays 8W.



Michael, thanks! Isn't the Diode array the same exact as the one I posted just double the price? Here is the one I am planning on so far (To5 9mm 520nm Green Laser Diode Array/8w 520nm Laser Array - Buy Laser Diode,520nm Laser Diode Array,Green Laser Diode Product on Alibaba.com) These look to be the same 'turn key' arrays and then it will just be matter of electrical, cooling, power, mounting..

Cooling will not be so bad honestly. Clearly we will only be running this at night and it can get COLDDDD at night. Sometimes even below freezing at night and in the 90's by day :evil:

There are those warm/hot nights that come out of nowhere tho, plus we might take this structure to art basil in Miami one of these years and other large gatherings.

I hope I can find someone on here who has worked with these before and can help be devise a great cooling solution.




You are correct that the existing hole clips the laser as it is now. The hole is roughly a 4" x 4" square. The slight clipping of the laser makes for a pretty crazy refraction of the light out the top though off the aluminum and a nice visible glow as well....Im still gonna hack off some more though especially when you see my ridiculous attachment below



I'm too excited about this now to rent one again ($1,500 to rent our current laser sky canon)

As i said before its pretty chilly at night but I do want to plan for the future with this and make sure it can go anywhere with us.

I wonder what a safe operating temperature is for these diodes? Im afraid, with getting these straight from alibaba that I will have little to no information on the diodes. Clearly I want to build the best enclosure for the entire cluster of arrays or perhaps leave it all exposed and all simply mounted to a water cooled plate..

Below is my idea as of now although my treasury/finance friends from the camp will not like this much..

Here goes nothin...This is (8) arrays. Mounted to a water cooled plate.

My main if we go for this will be hopefully teaming up with someone on here who is confident in helping me design the wiring diagram and other aspects of this monster.

Our current cluster is actually 38 1w blue diodes so its safe to say, at 64 1w green diodes, this is a massive upgrade and we will get to call it our own...and whoever wants to help me with this )

Lets sign the moon

Would you say that the 38W of blue was enough light? Becuase if so, 64W of green will be an insane increase, about 15 times brighter, so only 16W would probably be enough, since it's 3.5x brighter, so consider that. It would also make cooling much easier. If you want to, go for 64W, but it will provide a rather large technical challenge for cooling and wiring.

Also, be sure to check out CNI laser, then are a very reputable Chinese supplier, and they can hook you up with a completely ready to go display laser with active cooling and with more power of 532nm, which is brighter and has better beam specs.

 

[behmer]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

Would you say that the 38W of blue was enough light? Becuase if so, 64W of green will be an insane increase, about 15 times brighter, so only 16W would probably be enough, since it's 3.5x brighter, so consider that. It would also make cooling much easier. If you want to, go for 64W, but it will provide a rather large technical challenge for cooling and wiring.

Also, be sure to check out CNI laser, then are a very reputable Chinese supplier, and they can hook you up with a completely ready to go display laser with active cooling and with more power of 532nm, which is brighter and has better beam specs.

Id say the current setup is about 1/3 the brightness I would prefer. That is incredible that Green lasers are 3.5x brighter. I had no idea. This definitely makes me think my design here is overkill but I could be ok with that...We are raising the pyramid to 64' next year as well so it might be nice to have a laser that we still need to fully grow into. Either way I have to file for clearance with the FAA well in advance so we may as well overly justify that temporary airspace.

My main thing here you mention is now electrical and cooling. This is what is so unknown to me since the specs on this alibaba page and all pages for these units is minimal at best. I am leaning towards a water cooled plate though.. One of our camp mates has lots of knowledge with water cooling components so that's a plus.

Is there anyone here on the forums who might be able to devise the ideal power supply and circuitry for something of this caliber?

I will check CNI laser now. Thanks for any and all input to make this crazy vision a reality. I will have to lean on this new community a lot I feel but ill try to soak it in and do as much of my own homework as possible.

If anyone wants to team up on this that would offer huge peace of mind too...And I can say with plenty of confidence that this will lead to more laser builds once we are the brightest laser canon in the sky in front of 80,000.

I wouldn't mine smaller laser canons off the tip of the new floating Kazbana's I designed for this year (https://skfb.ly/PsqD) Those lasers will have to be next year tho.

 

[behmer]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

Back again! Had a great year last year. It all worked out except our laser projectors/programming left much to be desired...an escalating feeling over the years as we watch other crews pushing the envelope out there.

Long story short, this year we are jumping on a new opportunity with a pretty next level crew within our house scene for the scanners.

As for the laser space cannon , our staple to guide people home at night, our old rental company is saying we must take all their scanners again or have Nothing..No Space Cannon if we're going a different direction with the show.

A very weak move on their part but all happens for a reason i suppose.

Anyway, I digress..

Now we're back and this post below, from last year in the thread, might be our saving grace this year.

Get one of the diode blocks from a a140 projector or similar. Each of the diodes in this block are already roughly collimated and aligned - good enough. Drive each of the four series strings of 6 at 1.2A ~27V. Bolt a fan to the heat sink. Done.

I've done this, and it's relatively easy.

The crazy thing is I have access to 6 of these broken xj-a140 laser projectors for free right now!

I think you already know where im heading with this. Problem is I will need to lean greatly on the forums here or better yet find someone whos down for a fun project on a bit of budget.

What are your thoughts on how to best move forward with building an array of 6 of these 24 1w diode blocks?

I found this to be pretty useful: Hubert's laser page: Air laser

Cyparagon, lets make some magic happen haha.

 

[diachi]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

The crazy thing is I have access to 6 of these broken ca$1o xj-a140 laser projectors for free right now!

I think you already know where im heading with this. Problem is I will need to lean greatly on the forums here or better yet find someone whos down for a fun project on a bit of budget.

What are your thoughts on how to best move forward with building an array of 6 of these 24 1w diode blocks?

I found this to be pretty useful: Hubert's laser page: Air laser

Cyparagon, lets make some magic happen haha.

Heads up - we avoid typing Ca$1o on here, we don't want them getting worked up over our use of their projector diodes...

Anyway!

Where did the projectors come from? Equipment you had that stopped working or did it come used from somewhere like eBay?

Not too hard to get a string of those diodes going! Hell, you could do it with a couple of LM338s (with decent heatsinks on those!) if you wanted to drive a set of 12 diodes in a series/parallel configuration. Up it to four LM338s to simplify hooking up the diodes and you can just use one for each set of 6 diodes. It wouldn't be particularly efficient, but it'd work all the same. Super easy to work with LM338s, no different than working with an LM317.

 

[behmer]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

Thanks. Edited it out..still stuck in your quoted txt now tho haha.

They are all projectors from my old business partner. He had 8. He's down to 5 broken ones that just got dropped over all his shows and 1 fully working one which he's donating to this wild experiment.

As for this build, what if I wanted to keep all 24 diodes intact in their existing blocks? Then smash 5 more blocks side by side and either hit all the heatsinks with a ton of fans or just mount all of them to a watercooled block...

Think these blocks are all collimated enough to give us a nice straight beam up into the cosmos?

Id like to use the same wiring and pinouts if possible since its all nicely in series.

Have no clue on the power and number id need to safely run these 6 banks (totalling 144 diodes)

Crazier miracles have happened to us in a pinch though.

Hope to find a local San Francisco Bay Area guru on here so I dont set my roof on fire.

Which safety glasses are best for 445 nm diodes? I should start there before I get too excited hah.

What pains me most is I can't do as much reading up on all this as I want as the whole rest of the project is on my shoulders right now. Deep into some very pressing CAD stuff for other elements that actually need to be done on August 4th :scared:

 

[diachi]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

Thanks. Edited it out..still stuck in your quoted txt now tho haha.

Oops, thanks for pointing that out! Fixed!

They are all projectors from my old business partner. He had 8. He's down to 5 broken ones that just got dropped over all his shows and 1 fully working one which he's donating to this wild experiment.

OK Good, often times the broken units picked up on eBay have already had the diodes extracted...

As for this build, what if I wanted to keep all 24 diodes intact in their existing blocks? Then smash 5 more blocks side by side and either hit all the heatsinks with a ton of fans or just mount all of them to a watercooled block...

I mean you could... are you trying to signal Mars? You'd need a lot of airflow to remove that much heat.

Think these blocks are all collimated enough to give us a nice straight beam up into the cosmos?

Yeah, as far as I'm aware anyway, from the ground it'll look fine.

Id like to use the same wiring and pinouts if possible since its all nicely in series.

Yeah, makes sense just to stick with banks of 6 in series! An LM338 will quite happily drive that ~27V at 1.2A.

Have no clue on the power and number id need to safely run these 6 banks (totalling 144 diodes)

Somewhere around ~750W, depends on what current you run them at, and there will be some variation between diodes. That results in a variation in calculated power requirements, though it won't be a whole lot.

Crazier miracles have happened to us in a pinch though.

Hope to find a local San Francisco Bay Area guru on here so I dont set my roof on fire.

dsli_jon on Photonlexicon is in SoCal as far as I know? He does shows, professionally, it's his business. Knows what he's doing and how to do it safely. Maybe talk to him?

Which safety glasses are best for 445 nm diodes? I should start there before I get too excited hah.

Go to SurvivalLasers and pick up a few sets of their Eagle Pair glasses that cover 445nm. Cheapest glasses you'll find that actually work.

What pains me most is I can't do as much reading up on all this as I want as the whole rest of the project is on my shoulders right now. Deep into some very pressing CAD stuff for other elements that actually need to be done on August 4th :scared:

See answers in red!

 

[CurtisOliver]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

You also get 10% off with code LPF445 as well with Survival Lasers.

are you trying to signal Mars?

I think he might just be.

 

[behmer]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

You also get 10% off with code LPF445 as well with Survival Lasers.

I think he might just be.

Thanks and YES, we most certainly are!

Picking up some of the units today. If anyone stands out that's experimented with these today/tonight its goin down for some hopeful test runs in only a gutted state for now.

Any advice on a good variable power supply that can scale through all stages of this project?


Here's a little 3D interactive model of our Mars beacon as well: https://skfb.ly/6sAoo

 

[Radim]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

A very nice project. Just how do you solve air traffic and potential collision of beam with aircraft? Since it is static and straight up, it should be not that likely to hit an aircraft and at angle to hit cockpit window, still there might be problem with distracting pilots. :thinking:

 

[Alaskan]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

As a pilot for over 40 years now, i'd welcome the distraction. i agree, strait up shouldn't be a problem either. how about combining red green and blue to make it a white beam output instead?

 

[BobMc]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

As a pilot for over 40 years now, i'd welcome the distraction. i agree, strait up shouldn't be a problem either. how about combining red green and blue to make it a white beam output instead?

Mornings Alaskan. I guessing it was just a typo, but r&g in lasers make yellow.

https://youtu.be/IWe_N_hHKqs

I've got a dual diode r@g to yellow, I sent it to Lifetime to get a adapter made so a Sanwu 3x can be fitted. There was to much splash. So I haven't done a review on it. ( but it's in my "musium" thread) But with Lifetime's adapter to took care of about 85% of the splash. It is so much better. It throws a great beam of yellow, with a nice dot, with just a slight ring/hue of red. Quite impressive. Going to try and do a review on it when I get back to the house.


Ps, as a pilot, you ever flash a beam up in space? Would love to see a beam shot of a laser going straight up from a plane. That would be so cool.

 

[Encap]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

A very nice project. Just how do you solve air traffic and potential collision of beam with aircraft? Since it is static and straight up, it should be not that likely to hit an aircraft and at angle to hit cockpit window, still there might be problem with distracting pilots. :thinking:

Would think/assume they need an FDA laser variance and FAA approval to be to not be in violation of US laser laws, rules, and regualtions and that they already know that and a familiar with the process. The OP meantions filing for approval with the FAA in post #18, but no mention of variance from FDA however.
In any case there is not enough time between now and 4 August 2017 to build the envisionsed 4" X 4" diode array, test it, and get an FDA variance and the FAA approval required by FDA before they will grant a variance. So would have to be something for next year.

"Demonstration lasers such as light shows, and SLA lasers are often used outdoors. For these two applications, anyone using Class 3B or 4 lasers (above 5 mW for visible wavelengths) must fill out FDA Form 3147 to obtain a “variance.” The user describes the intended use and safety features in order to get permission from FDA to vary from the regulations.
Further, if the use is outdoors, FDA will not grant the variance unless the user submits a description of their laser operations to FAA using FAA Form 7400.2 and receives a letter of non-objection from FAA. In this indirect way, demonstration/lightshow lasers and SLA lasers are the only outdoor uses of lasers that are required under Federal law to get permission in advance from FAA."

See: U.S. rules and regulations for those using lasers outdoors

Also see: http://www.lasershowsafety.info/us-laws.html

 

[Radim]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

As a pilot for over 40 years now, i'd welcome the distraction. i agree, strait up shouldn't be a problem either. how about combining red green and blue to make it a white beam output instead?

Surely it would be nice to see laser. Unless it hits approach corridor or low altitude used often (by small aircrafts). I guess it is not the case in OP's project.

Would think they need an FDA laser variance and FAA approval to be to not be in violation of US laser laws, rules, and regualtions.

"Demonstration lasers such as light shows, and SLA lasers are often used outdoors. For these two applications, anyone using Class 3B or 4 lasers (above 5 mW for visible wavelengths) must fill out FDA Form 3147 to obtain a “variance.” The user describes the intended use and safety features in order to get permission from FDA to vary from the regulations.

Further, if the use is outdoors, FDA will not grant the variance unless the user submits a description of their laser operations to FAA using FAA Form 7400.2 and receives a letter of non-objection from FAA. In this indirect way, demonstration/lightshow lasers and SLA lasers are the only outdoor uses of lasers that are required under Federal law to get permission in advance from FAA."

See: U.S. rules and regulations for those using lasers outdoors

Also see: U.S. laser laws and regulations

Good to mention - I owe you a rep now (spreading).

OP should be aware of that not to have problems with authorities.

Still the safety risk, if my assumption above is valid, is not significant, but there might be this significant legal risk.

...

Ps, as a pilot, you ever flash a beam up in space? Would love to see a beam shot of a laser going straight up from a plane. That would be so cool.

Definitely - like seeing extraterrestrials in space ship trying to kidnap people for various experiments. :crackup:

As AlienLasers' signature shows.

 

[BobMc]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

@Encap, forgot about the FAA, such pain in the butts!

@Radim, haaaaa,

 

[Alaskan]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

I assumed they put in for all required permissions from our all mighty regulators. Also, becomes another beast when doing what are called laser light shows, whether paid for or not. Show your neighbors your cool new pointer beaming into the night sky and you very well may be breaking the law regarding laser light shows.

On a side note, I've just come to an understanding regarding the reason some members post, not always to provide info, but to show others what you don't know and they do. That, in my opinion, is a wrong use of community.

 

[BobMc]

Re: First Post - Looking to create the brightest possible 4" X 4" thick beam using di

@Alaskan, no offense was intended when I posted that r&g makes yellow. I thought it was a typo, that you meant to post that rgb makes white. Oooops, my apologias.

Also wanted to brag a little about my r&g to yellow build that throws such a beautiful yellow beam/dot. ( yea I'm a bit of a ham ) :tinfoil: