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FDAs Proposed Ban Of Laser Pointers

LSRFAQ

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Unintended uses like illuminating cars, planes, ships, trains, soccer players, football players, baseball batters, hockey players, concert goers, rock stars, and idiotic stuff like this is why FDA is asking to roll back to 1990s rules and performance. Once upon a time when laser diodes were expensive and never expected to get above 10 mW of 670 nm red, the FDA issued a blanket ruling allowing bypass of manufacturing paperwork and approval for Class IIIA and under pointing devices. The idea back then was CDRH/BRH officials could spend their timing reviewing approvals for more serious uses, and to AID COMMERECE by reducing regulatory burden.

The FDA now wishes to roll things back and take back their authority, due to idiots being idiots and the fact that the market is FLOODED with less then 20$ devices. It was never expected in the late 1990s and early 2000s that a pointer could be made for less then say 75$ and sold at gas stations. Back then many pointers were priced at 400-700$ and used a HENE Tube for the most part. Technology got better, and the rules did not catch up. Bar code readers and CD players drove the cost of IR and red diodes down. FDA is merely asking for the ability to roll back to an older rule, one that was in effect when I was in High School and College, due to unexpected consequences.

Stuff like this idiot is also why.....

https://youtu.be/Q8zC3-ZQFJI

I think he's too young to understand that posting the source code makes him a Class IV IDIOT. Either that or he clamors for his 15 minutes in the spotlight.
I think his future engineering or computer industry employers will find that video interesting "pre-interview".


Yes, once in a while some one from the FDA in DC reads LPF, more or less to keep an idea on what is "out there" in terms of new implementations of diode technology. I'm quite sure with the Wicked mess, those threads were read daily. Don't ask me to go into details, but I KNOW the 445 thread(S) was/were read all the time back then.

DC is not anti-hobbyist when it comes to lasers. Over the years, I've heard that time and time again from specialists inside the beltway. FDA has a mandate to increase commerce and to aid in science. It is the commercial production of devices that they are mainly interested in.



Other agencies pretty much scan all on-line forums, so if a politician or someone in LE or FAA, or some one in Intelligence or Homeland, , requests a report, a computer generated summary is generated in seconds based on keywords. In fact, in most cases, no human is involved. Get used to that, it is here, and its not going away short of Armageddon. A MUCH LARGER threat then the government ever will be, is the private data harvesting companies that are interested in doing an automated summary of everything you post or look at, with the intent of selling everything they know about you.

Steve
 
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Hap

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:mad: some people shouldn't be allowed to have lasers!

-Alex
 

paul1598419

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I remember that video too. I thought, "what an idiot". Be careful what you wish for, Alex. It might come true. Thank you, Steve, for the history lesson. It helps to put things into perspective.
 

Radim

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Unintended uses like illuminating cars, planes, ships, trains, soccer players, football players, baseball batters, hockey players, concert goers, rock stars, and idiotic stuff like this is why FDA is asking to roll back to 1990s rules and performance. Once upon a time when laser diodes were expensive and never expected to get above 10 mW of 670 nm red, the FDA issued a blanket ruling allowing bypass of manufacturing paperwork and approval for Class IIIA and under pointing devices. The idea back then was CDRH/BRH officials could spend their timing reviewing approvals for more serious uses, and to AID COMMERECE by reducing regulatory burden.

The FDA now wishes to roll things back and take back their authority, due to idiots being idiots and the fact that the market is FLOODED with less then 20$ devices. It was never expected in the late 1990s and early 2000s that a pointer could be made for less then say 75$ and sold at gas stations. Back then many pointers were priced at 400-700$ and used a HENE Tube for the most part. Technology got better, and the rules did not catch up. Bar code readers and CD players drove the cost of IR and red diodes down. FDA is merely asking for the ability to roll back to an older rule, one that was in effect when I was in High School and College, due to unexpected consequences.

Stuff like this idiot is also why.....

https://youtu.be/Q8zC3-ZQFJI

I think he's too young to understand that posting the source code makes him a Class IV IDIOT. Either that or he clamors for his 15 minutes in the spotlight.
I think his future engineering or computer industry employers will find that video interesting "pre-interview".


Yes, once in a while some one from the FDA in DC reads LPF, more or less to keep an idea on what is "out there" in terms of new implementations of diode technology. I'm quite sure with the Wicked mess, those threads were read daily. Don't ask me to go into details, but I KNOW the 445 thread(S) was/were read all the time back then.

DC is not anti-hobbyist when it comes to lasers. Over the years, I've heard that time and time again from specialists inside the beltway. FDA has a mandate to increase commerce and to aid in science. It is the commercial production of devices that they are mainly interested in.



Other agencies pretty much scan all on-line forums, so if a politician or someone in LE or FAA, or some one in Intelligence or Homeland, , requests a report, a computer generated summary is generated in seconds based on keywords. In fact, in most cases, no human is involved. Get used to that, it is here, and its not going away short of Armageddon. A MUCH LARGER threat then the government ever will be, is the private data harvesting companies that are interested in doing an automated summary of everything you post or look at, with the intent of selling everything they know about you.

Steve
A very nice post, Steve.

That young man's project is interesting, however I do not like this application. Even the laser could be eye safe, it is not designed for entering eye. And posting it on YT? Seriously this guy did not think about less inteligent people than he is. Yes, he is not idiot (otherwise he would not create that thing working), but definitely not mature, responsible and/or smart enough to consider potential consequences. If the device is designed to recognize some non living moving object and hit it with dot, ok... Warning in video (not to shoot living objects) should be also included. Overall I cannot like it just because the application and presentation of the device.

Regarding agencies scanning forums - I hope they realize there exist community of responsible and legitimate users and in case of regulation there will be a way for that community how to proceed legally without any unnecessary limits (which are kept anyway by this community). With wrong regulation they will just do bad in long term - as I mentioned before on LPF - lasers are the future and any restriction to responsible community will lead to less people interested in lasers (as access to practical experience will be limited likely to university labs) and less potential students in lasers and photonics and in long term it might lead to losing competitive advantage in this field of technology developement and science. Here we go... Consequences are for sure negative in terms of value for society as well as money (in GDP for example).

Law is always several steps back, but LPF and laser community is here more than decade now, there is time to catch up a bit and respect it - just for higher purposes.

I do not support any missuse of lasers, but that is not the point discussed. Obvious reasons. And politics? Smart polititians have longer future by doing wise decisions IMO. Blind regulation not seeing our community here is not wise.
 

Hap

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I remember that video too. I thought, "what an idiot". Be careful what you wish for, Alex. It might come true. Thank you, Steve, for the history lesson. It helps to put things into perspective.
:undecided::undecided: okay :pop:

-Alex
 

paul1598419

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:undecided::undecided: okay :pop:

-Alex
What I meant was that if they pass a law where people can't have lasers, what will that do to us? I'd rather have everyone able to have them than to restrict them. They aren't firearms. No one dies from laser fire. :) Even the pilots who have reported being the target of laser pointers. To date there have been no accidents or crashes anywhere in the world because of laser pointers. NONE. No injuries either. No blinding or even flash blindness. Just angry pilots reporting that they have been targeted.
 
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Benm

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:mad: some people shouldn't be allowed to have lasers!

-Alex
Same goes for icepicks, screwdrivers, rakes, hammers, bricks, scissors, prescription medicine and many other items that have -actually been used- to commit manslaughter or murder :)

As a hazard to aviation drones are much more dangerous. Premium brands stop you for using them around airports by gps location, but other brands do not, and i'm not sure if it could in some way be bypassed for the premium brand ones as well (such as disabling or spoofing the gps module signals).

Unlike lasers drones can actually disable the aircraft itself, not just distract the pilot. For a single engine aircraft a drone strike to the propellor would probably cause instant loss of all propulsion, though it could still be landed operating as a glider if lucky.

The most common planes in civial avialtion are twin engine jet aircraft, and they could be quite vulnerable to drone attack. Lets consider that drone ingestion will completely disable a jet engine (not unreasonable for a larger type drone), flying the drone into the engine after V1 (not enough runway left to make a stop) would put a plane in servere danger.

This part of a flight is fairly critical. With one of the two engines disabled aircraft can still fly, take their time to find a place to land and all, provided that they have some altitude to spare and are not loaded to MTOW.

If you have a twin jet aircraft bound for a flight to about it's maximum capapility however, the loss of one engine on the take off roll is a big problem.

One thing few people realize is that the maximum take-off weight (MTOW) often is far larger than the maximum landing weight (MLW). This essentially means a plane can take off just fine with full fuel tanks and at that point is so heavy it could not safely be landen without dumping fuel.

Under normal operating conditions this is not problematic, you burn the difference between MTOW and MLW in flight to your destination.

But if forced to land early this IS a big problem. Something like 767 can take off with a total mass of 200 tonnes, but only land with 160 tonnes. This is no problem considering there could be about 70 tons of fuel in the tanks, which would be mostly depleted upon scheduled landing.

Losing one engine upon takoff is a problem though: the aircraft may not be able to climb on one engine being so heavy, yet also unable to land within safely limits even if it can find a nearby runway.

In practical situations it will problably be able to land, possibly causing some damage, if a nearby airfield is available, but that would be a very serious incident and something somewhat 'lucky to survive'.
 




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