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FrozenGate by Avery

FAA: Laser incidents soar, threaten planes

Arshus said:
Ahh I see your point. Still in my opinion, it will be a licensing requirement instead of a ban. Too much money to be made, and much easier to implement.

A ban would legally be too complicated, and probably unconstitutional. We do have the right to bear arms. Think of it this way: does a weapon have to be a "gun" to be a weapon? Does a "gun" have to shoot pieces of metal to be a "gun"? How much longer will guns shoot bullets before something more lethal is invented?

But I digress. Incidents with lasers and planes doubled last year. This is logical because of the increased availability of handheld lasers. The point is that if people don't stop wonton misuse of handheld lasers, something will be done, and wether a ban is implemented or other types of restrictions are used, either way, we loose.

Legislation restricting/banning ALL handhelds is still pretty far away. You may think that a few people on some forums may not be able to help, but we can. Alot of people into lasers end up here, and we can do something to prevent the problem or even keep it in check, before something bad happens.
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I agree and feel if we don't make our selfs into a unit working as one we will get steamrolled by the nay sayer and media slaves.
 





Its funny how the media paint lasers as this evil thing that people are surprised isnt regulated already. "Anyone can order one of these things off the internet" they say, like its some thing that shoudlnt be allowed lol.

The media will latch onto anything for ratings and lasers are the "flavor of the month". Its not too late though, it will take alot more than a little negatve media for something widespread to happen.

I think the "Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2010" was basically congress' response to the whole thing.
 
Benm said:
I'm not sure what type of aircraft are typically involved in the mentioned incidents. If its large passenger carriers landing on major airports, they will probably be able to complete the landing using class-3 ILS.
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I can not simply switch to a CAT-3 Auto-Land ILS the last few thousand feet of an approach. There are multiple requirements that have to be met both on the ground and in the air. The airplane has to meet certain equipment requirements. Very few items can be inoperative on the aircraft and they have to pass a functionality test en-route to the airport of intended landing. Then there is the approach briefing. A standard brief on a clear day might take 30 seconds. A briefing for a CAT-2 or CAT-3 ILS will take several minutes - like 10 or so. Also the briefing needs to be done before descending below 10,000 feet. My company prefers above 18,000. Also every ILS - CAT-2 and 3 - have to meet certain requirements of visibility and all have a DH "Decision Height". Only the CAT-3c ILS is without restrictions in regards to visibility and DH. In other words a CAT-3c ILS permits landing totally blind. All other categories of ILS have a point at which you need to be able to see at least part of the runway environment. But... nowhere on the planet Earth is CAT-3c used.

You mentioned filtering goggles. There is a problem with filtering out certain wavelengths of light outside of the obscuring instruments problem:

Most common color of lasers involved in these "attacks": Green and Red.

The beginning of the runway is marked by green lights. The end of the runway is marked by red lights. Put those goggles on and now I can't tell where the runway starts and stops for sure.

Landing short of the runway and/or overrunning the runway might equal death.

The root of the problem though is shining a laser at an aircraft is stupid, and you can't legislate against stupidity.
 
Joe said:
I can not simply switch to a CAT-3 Auto-Land ILS the last few thousand feet of an approach. There are multiple requirements that have to be met both on the ground and in the air. The airplane has to meet certain equipment requirements. Very few items can be inoperative on the aircraft and they have to pass a functionality test en-route to the airport of intended landing. Then there is the approach briefing. A standard brief on a clear day might take 30 seconds. A briefing for a CAT-2 or CAT-3 ILS will take several minutes - like 10 or so. Also the briefing needs to be done before descending below 10,000 feet. My company prefers above 18,000. Also every ILS - CAT-2 and 3 - have to meet certain requirements of visibility and all have a DH "Decision Height". Only the CAT-3c ILS is without restrictions in regards to visibility and DH. In other words a CAT-3c ILS permits landing totally blind. All other categories of ILS have a point at which you need to be able to see at least part of the runway environment. But... nowhere on the planet Earth is CAT-3c used.

You mentioned filtering goggles. There is a problem with filtering out certain wavelengths of light outside of the obscuring instruments problem:

Most common color of lasers involved in these "attacks": Green and Red.

The beginning of the runway is marked by green lights. The end of the runway is marked by red lights. Put those goggles on and now I can't tell where the runway starts and stops for sure.

Landing short of the runway and/or overrunning the runway might equal death.

The root of the problem though is shining a laser at an aircraft is stupid, and you can't legislate against stupidity.
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We really do appreciate your in-put and would love for you to stay around. I think making airplanes laser resistant would be very hard near impossible as you have described. And also agree, we will never be able to stop everyone from getting a powerful enough laser (even if it was banned) and be stupid enough to shine it at anything with people in it.

We can tho, create a community of laser owners that the public can see as responsible and we would follow guidelines, protecting our rights to own a laser responsibly. Unless we mass together we will never have a voice, as we will watch out hobby get taken away.
 
Its funny how the media paint lasers as this evil thing that people are surprised isnt regulated already. "Anyone can order one of these things off the internet" they say, like its some thing that shoudlnt be allowed lol.
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Yup, thats the media alright. If someone is attacked with a hammer they should also mention that there is a huge problem since everyone get just pick up one of those lethal things at wallwart :D


Joe said:
The root of the problem though is shining a laser at an aircraft is stupid, and you can't legislate against stupidity.
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I'm affraid that IS the conclusion... :(
 
Joe said:
You mentioned filtering goggles. There is a problem with filtering out certain wavelengths of light outside of the obscuring instruments problem:

Most common color of lasers involved in these "attacks": Green and Red.

The beginning of the runway is marked by green lights. The end of the runway is marked by red lights. Put those goggles on and now I can't tell where the runway starts and stops for sure.

Landing short of the runway and/or overrunning the runway might equal death.
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Thank you.. I've brought this up several times in response to the "Why can't they just put a special filter coating on the windows?" response. Which seems to be about as inevitable as the "But the window are on top, not on the bottom!" response.

People have the wrong impression of flight and aviation. Many people I've talked to have assumed that planes today essentially have a "land" button, and that's it.

Sure, there's a lot more pilot assistance than there used to be in a modern glass cockpit, but its not quite like that, and being distracted during landing can easily kill you.
 
Pass all that.... We seriously need to start banning together and set up a group that will support laser safety and the use of them. Other wise we wont have them. We need to form a group that will defend the right to safely use lasers.

If we don't we will have them taken away sooner than you would think.
 
HAUP - Hobbyists Against Unsafe Practices
HALA - Hobbyists Against Laser Abuse (this would read as: "The H-A-L-A")
HALM - Hobbyists Against Laser Misuse
HALS - Hobbyists Advocating Laser Safety

Just a to name a few possibilities, first thing to do would be to vote on the name and then form social group on here with that name to see how many people would join, and then move on from there.

The 2nd one down is my choice.

Just a thought,

Sal
 
aryntha said:
People have the wrong impression of flight and aviation. Many people I've talked to have assumed that planes today essentially have a "land" button, and that's it.
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Ah well, thats about as stupid as assuming a car will drive itself once you put on the cruise control and keep the steering wheel roughly centered. Sure, it will work, for about 5 seconds.

Perhaps hearing the stories from actual pilots might help to convice people not to shine lasers at aircraft. When a big, far away, organisation like the FAA pushes for a ban, people will think it is another useless security measure. Without any prior knowledge i'd assume it would be about as dangerous as bringing a can of soda on a plance, which is just as prohibited.

But i suppose its idealistic to believe in education rather than legislation, i am affraid the us citizens here might face a laser ban of sorts whatever our opinion on the matter is. Come over and light up the skies of europe, but make sure to miss the planes :D
 
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