Confirmation on PHR Design / Date / Origins?

[seoguy]

I had heard anecdotally that the PHR-803T was from the HD-DVD drive for a Microsoft XBOX360, that it was used in an earlier version of this drive, and that a later version used a different/less powerful sled/laser diode?

Doing some research, I also came across an external HD-DVD drive for the XBOX360 that appears to have been released around Nov. 2006? -
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/17/xbox-hd-dvd-drive-to-connect-to-pcs-via-usb/
and that was actually based on a Toshiba drive, model SD-S806A, one unit of which had a manufacturing date of Sept. 2006 -
http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/
http://achernob.blogspot.com/2007/04/mounting-xbbox-360-hd-drive-into-my-pc.html

Is this all correct?

Is the PHR-803T the sled for the first version of the XBOX360 HD-DVD Drive that was released ~Nov. 2006?

Is it, in fact, the sled from the Toshiba SD-S806A Drive?

Does anybody have any information on the design or manufacturing dates on the PHR-803T sleds we are using to make 405nm burners?

Thanks!

 

[leukoplast]

I don't have any info on this, but I find it interesting that the diodes used on the X360 HD-DVD drives were/are so powerful. It seems Microsoft probably had plans to make this thing a burner at some point in time probably with a firmware update, But when Blu-Ray took the cake, their plans were foiled.

 

[JLSE]

My toughts would be that they wanted an extra long life on their sleds.. If you look at the PS3, they seem to have laser burn out issues and it just so happens that the diodes cant push the same. I wonder if microsoft actually wanted these to last? Doesnt seem very corporate of them :

 

[leukoplast]

Possibly, although it could have been for both reasons. Extra long life, and for the possibility of burning. Although like you said, I can hardly imagine why they would want extra long diode life. Doesn't fit their MO.

Although back when these drives were released...there wasn't even any burners out there (that I know of, or it was very very rare to see any 2x or 4x burners) so those diodes must have been very costly since they were so powerful. Either that or the designers just accidentally made them more beefy.

 

[pullbangdead]

Possibly, although it could have been for both reasons.  Extra long life, and for the possibility of burning.   Although like you said, I can hardly imagine why they would want extra long diode life.   Doesn't fit their MO.

Although back when these drives were released...there wasn't even any burners out there (that I know of, or it was very very rare to see any 2x or 4x burners) so those diodes must have been very costly since they were so powerful.   Either that or the designers just accidentally made them more beefy.

When a diode maker is making diodes, they're not aiming for a certain power initially. They're simply trying to make the best diode possible. They make them all the exact same way, and at the end of it all the "bin" them according to performance. Right now, the very best diodes go to 8x, then 6x, then 4x, then readers, and so on. A few years ago, the very best diodes weren't nearly so good, so they went into whatever they could fit into, mostly readers, and a few slow burners.

The same is true for computer processors: Intel doesn't design a batch to be 1.3GHz, a batch to be 1.5GHz, and another 1.7GHz. Every processor is made the same way and tested at the end to see how well it works, and then gets branded that way, with the better ones being more expensive (even though they cost exactly the same amount to make, but they're "more rare" in the outcome).

And power rating isn't the only thing that gets tested when the diode is made; they also test the beam specs, they test the output spectrum, lots of things that people on here just don't have the ability to test, in general. Maybe the PHRs aren't quite as good in some other unseen way? Who knows.

 

[seoguy]

Your digression is interesting, but unfortunately none of the replies answers the questions that were the purpose of creating this thread.

The reason I was asking these questions is I am trying to get a handle on the specific technology that was used to create the PHR-803T diodes. If I can do that, I may be able to shed some light on these other issues, get us a better handle on understanding this diode's peculiarities, as well as how we can best use them to create more reliable burners!

But in order to do that, I need to know that I am looking at the right drive and dates! Someone here must be able to at least confirm the year that these things came out? :-?

 

[ndrew2505]

the phr's we were getting were from sd-h802a not 806a. there seemed to be 2 versions of the hd-dvd drive, one with the phr sled and another with the dt-0811. the only difference i think anyone found was the ROM version on the sticker on the drive itself. one was labelled ROM ver 000 and the other was ROM ver 001 i think... :-?

 

[ElektroFreak]

Your digression is interesting, but unfortunately none of the replies answers the questions that were the purpose of creating this thread.

The reason I was asking these questions is I am trying to get a handle on the specific technology that was used to create the PHR-803T diodes.  If I can do that, I may be able to shed some light on these other issues, get us a better handle on understanding this diode's peculiarities, as well as how we can best use them to create more reliable burners!

But in order to do that, I need to know that I am looking at the right drive and dates!  Someone here must be able to at least confirm the year that these things came out?  :-?

While your intentions are great, this work has already been done on PHRs. They are a ~60mW class 405nm diode with a high-reliability current rating of ~80-100mA. Some members say that they can be driven higher and still have a long life, but if you want to see anywhere near 5000-10000 hours, don't exceed 90mA.
I myself have had a PHR powered up continuously at 90mA for about 4 1/2 months, equating to about 3360 hours give or take. It outputs about 75mW with tiny variations depending on temperature.

This type of experimentation still needs to be done with 4X, 6X, and 8X blu-rays. It's more expensive to conduct these experiments on those diodes, though, so progress has been slow in finding definitive numbers.

The only way to get solid data on a diode that you have no datasheet for is for lots of people to be involved in the testing and their results compared and averaged.

 

[seoguy]

Eletrofreak, I think you misunderstand the nature of my inquiry. I am not looking at this from a destructive testing / experimental "let's crank 'er up and see how much she can take" approach. I am looking at this from another angle, one that may be able to address the unanswered questions, ones that cannot be answered by brute-force testing alone.

This type of experimentation still needs to be done with 4X, 6X, and 8X blu-rays.

Agreed. I was planning on pursuing those as well, but decided to start with the PHR's, as they have been around the longest, so I figured people at LPF would therefore be more familiar with them.

It's more expensive to conduct these experiments on those diodes, though...

Thankfully, my line of inquiry does not involve burning-out any diodes! ;D

the phr's we were getting were from sd-h802a not 806a...

Thank you, Drew, that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for!

I have one of those PHR's from you, by the way, and plan on playing with it, as soon as I can decide on a good driver & host!

UPDATE: It appears that model # 806A was the result of a late-night typo! :-[ However, further research seems to indicate that it may not be a SD-H802A as you indicated, but perhaps a SD-S802A? (Appears SD-H802A was a generic drive, and SD-S802A was designed for the XBOX?)

there seemed to be 2 versions of the hd-dvd drive, one with the phr sled and another with the dt-0811.

Is it correct that the PHR came first, and was then replaced by the (less powerful?) DT-0811? Most importantly, do you know when the ones containing the PHRs were being made?

UPDATE: Is the pic below it? Is that around the right date for the PHR ones? Thanks!

 

[HumanSymphony]

Eletrofreak, I think you misunderstand the nature of my inquiry.  I am not looking at this from a destructive testing / experimental "let's crank 'er up and see how much she can take" approach.  I am looking at this from another angle, one that may be able to address [highlight]the unanswered questions, ones that cannot be answered by brute-force testing alone.[/highlight]

What questions good sir? :

 

[ElektroFreak]

[highlight]Eletrofreak, I think you misunderstand the nature of my inquiry.  I am not looking at this from a destructive testing / experimental "let's crank 'er up and see how much she can take" approach.  I am looking at this from another angle, one that may be able to address the unanswered questions, ones that cannot be answered by brute-force testing alone.[/highlight]

OK.. maybe you'd like to elaborate a little on just what it is you're looking for?.. :-?

edit.. didn't notice HS beat me to it..

 

[seoguy]

HumanSymphony, ElektroFreak, all will become clear shortly.

But if you look at some of the posts above, you will find a few examples.

But I was just getting some confirmation on a few things for some research I am doing first...

Anyways, it appears I found some of the answers I was seeking!

After doing some deeper searching in Google, I was led back to this amazing thread! -

http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1209940381/0

I just spent well over 4-5 hours reading through all 524 posts!

I was able to confirm the following -

1) The drive was in fact the SD-S802A, as referenced in my last post above.

2) The PHR does appear to be the older version, and was replaced with the newer DT0811.

3) While the model # is identical, the PHR versions appear to be identifiable in two ways -

The Ver. No. (for the drive, not the ROM) is 000 (100 for the DT0811)

The Part # is X810225 (for the DT, is X810268)

4) From the drive pics posted by various members in that thread, the older PHR version also appears to have been in production since at least Sept. 2006.

There were also comparisons in the thread with things like the 6x, which seemed to make no sense (I figured the 6x would have been newer than the PHR), until I realized that it took you guys about 2 years between the time the PHR first came out (2006), until LPF members finally noticed it (2008)! Shame on you slow-pokes! ;D

At any rate, it appears that ridiculously long thread provided much of the information I was seeking.

My next question is - does anybody have a better macro shot of an open-can PHR (perhaps at an angle to show the chip better?) than this? (by DanQ)

 

[pianoman2011]

I just spent well over [highlight]4-5 hours [/highlight]reading through all 524 posts!

...you have way too much free time on your hands. But I wish you well in your quest for answers .

-Jakob

 

[lasersbee]

HumanSymphony, ElektroFreak, all will become clear shortly.

But if you look at some of the posts above, you will find a few examples.

But I was just getting some confirmation on a few things for some research I am doing first...

Anyways, it appears I found some of the answers I was seeking!

After doing some deeper searching in Google, I was led back to this amazing thread! -

http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1209940381/0

I just spent well over 4-5 hours reading through all 524 posts!  

I was able to confirm the following -

1) The drive was in fact the SD-S802A, as referenced in my last post above.

2) The PHR does appear to be the older version, and was replaced with the newer DT0811.

3) While the model # is identical, the PHR versions appear to be identifiable in two ways -

The Ver. No. (for the drive, not the ROM) is 000 (100 for the DT0811)

The Part # is X810225 (for the DT, is X810268)

4) From the drive pics posted by various members in that thread, the older PHR version also appears to have been in production since at least Sept. 2006.

There were also comparisons in the thread with things like the 6x, which seemed to make no sense (I figured the 6x would have been newer than the PHR), until I realized that it took you guys about 2 years between the time the PHR first came out (2006), until LPF members finally noticed it (2008)!  Shame on you slow-pokes! ;D

At any rate, it appears that ridiculously long thread provided much of the information I was seeking.

My next question is - does anybody have a better macro shot of an open-can PHR (perhaps at an angle to show the chip better?) than this?  (by DanQ)

That is the proper way of getting info on the Forum.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Well done...

Jerry

 

[ElektroFreak]

[highlight]HumanSymphony, ElektroFreak, all will become clear shortly. [/highlight]

But if you look at some of the posts above, you will find a few examples.

But I was just getting some confirmation on a few things for some research I am doing first...

Anyways, it appears I found some of the answers I was seeking!

After doing some deeper searching in Google, I was led back to this amazing thread! -

http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1209940381/0

I just spent well over 4-5 hours reading through all 524 posts!  

I was able to confirm the following -

1) The drive was in fact the SD-S802A, as referenced in my last post above.

2) The PHR does appear to be the older version, and was replaced with the newer DT0811.

3) While the model # is identical, the PHR versions appear to be identifiable in two ways -

The Ver. No. (for the drive, not the ROM) is 000 (100 for the DT0811)

The Part # is X810225 (for the DT, is X810268)

4) From the drive pics posted by various members in that thread, the older PHR version also appears to have been in production since at least Sept. 2006.

There were also comparisons in the thread with things like the 6x, which seemed to make no sense (I figured the 6x would have been newer than the PHR), until I realized that it took you guys about 2 years between the time the PHR first came out (2006), until LPF members finally noticed it (2008)!  Shame on you slow-pokes! ;D

At any rate, it appears that ridiculously long thread provided much of the information I was seeking.

My next question is - does anybody have a better macro shot of an open-can PHR (perhaps at an angle to show the chip better?) than this?  (by DanQ)

Ahhh.. the thrill of a mystery..

Anyhoo.. I had mentioned that pretty much everything that can be gleaned from experimentation with PHRs has been gleaned. The fact that you spent 4-5 hours reading a thread with 524 posts (which isn't even close to the only thread dealing with PHR experimentation) should pretty well prove that.. I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish, even after reading every post in this thread.. so I wish you well in you research, and hopefully you'll keep us posted. If you've found some way of positively identifying the PHR diode (exact part number, manufacturer, and datasheet) then many people here will be glad to have such info..

 

[rkcstr]

My next question is - does anybody have a better macro shot of an open-can PHR (perhaps at an angle to show the chip better?) than this?  (by DanQ)

Here's a macro vid of one I made a little while back. It was "blown" and just put out the "LED" light, but otherwise was intact minus the can.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPZ4g3bhIU[/media]