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FrozenGate by Avery

computer mice recommendations?

be careful for me there was no progression of pain it went from slightly hurting to my hand going completely numb. at first i thought i had been playing too much minecraft so i laid of it. but it kept getting worse. its pretty bad and while the mouse and pad are helping i might have to go see a doctor soon.

i watched this video today and it helps explain carpal tunnel well Carpal tunnel syndrome - YouTube

Yeah... my symptoms fit that far too closely for comfort... and my wrist has been uncomfortable, without that discomfort going away at home, although not a bother at work.

I'm going to have to rethink my home setup, because carpal tunnel surgery, and more important recovery, are no fun. My grandfather had surgery on his left wrist earlier in the year. ( He is 86.)

any good links for how to adjust posture? Like, I've got a fancy "ergonomic" chair, but I know I'm not sitting in it right, because the front of the desk rests on my stomach and I'm pretty much resting my chin on my chest, recliner style. Also, I don't understand your comment about chair height and the 90 degree elbow angle. So, I'm supposed to be at a height where my elbow IS greater than 90 degrees? And my wrist, if anything, should bend what, downwards towards the mouse to keep my tendons from scratching on my bones?

Well, basically, ideal posture sitting down, your knees should form at exact 90 degree angle. From hips to back, slightly over 90 degrees. The way I think of it, is like those rollercoaster restraints that go over the shoulders and press your into the seat. Shoulders back...

Ideally you shouldn't have to bend or slough, monitor should be at eye level, and at a distance such that you don't have to lean forward to read anything.

With regards to hand / elbow/ mouse angles, I'm really not sure tbh...

I'm 99% sure my problem comes from the fact that I tend to lower my chair (also a very comfortable ergonomic design,) to where I'm kind of leaning back lounging. Problem is when I do, my hand reaches up from below, and my wrist joint ends up resting on the desk corner.... I'm going to need to do something about the arrangement asap. For the moment I've resorted to using a wireless keyboard&mouse that has a trackpad instead, when I'm lounging.

It's either that, or one of those orthopedic wrist supports :undecided:

I'm curious how old are you guys? I'm 27, about to turn 28 (in 8 days). I've been using computers VERY heavily for the past 17 years.
 
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Yeah... my symptoms fit that far too closely for comfort... and my wrist has been uncomfortable, without that discomfort going away at home, although not a bother at work.

I'm going to have to rethink my home setup, because carpal tunnel surgery, and more important recovery, are no fun. My grandfather had surgery on his left wrist earlier in the year. ( He is 86.)



Well, basically, ideal posture sitting down, your knees should form at exact 90 degree angle. From hips to back, slightly over 90 degrees. The way I think of it, is like those rollercoaster restraints that go over the shoulders and press your into the seat. Shoulders back...

Ideally you shouldn't have to bend or slough, monitor should be at eye level, and at a distance such that you don't have to lean forward to read anything.

With regards to hand / elbow/ mouse angles, I'm really not sure tbh...

I'm 99% sure my problem comes from the fact that I tend to lower my chair (also a very comfortable ergonomic design,) to where I'm kind of leaning back lounging. Problem is when I do, my hand reaches up from below, and my wrist joint ends up resting on the desk corner.... I'm going to need to do something about the arrangement asap. For the moment I've resorted to using a wireless keyboard&mouse that has a trackpad instead, when I'm lounging.

It's either that, or one of those orthopedic wrist supports :undecided:

I'm curious how old are you guys? I'm 27, about to turn 28 (in 8 days). I've been using computers VERY heavily for the past 17 years.

wont work... trust me

im 15... far, far too young for this :yabbem:

Comfort Guidelines

both of you take a look at that. It almost seems as though arm rests are not a good idea. i read elsewhere that if you have a wrist pad for your mouse dont rest your wrist on it. rest the back of your hand on it.

exercises for tendinitis (tendonitis) and carpal tunnel (cps) - YouTube!

consider trying those stretches. They haven't solved the problem, but i can feel them stretching the tendons.

@bshan

the inside angle of your elbow-forearm should be obtuse

desk_ergonomics.jpg


wrist ideally should not bend and keyboard tray should be right above your legs.
 
Crap I feel OLD. Went out for drinks today after work with colleagues... I don't remember how it came up, but we came to the question of age.

Sadly I recall taking somekind of a test years ago, when I was younger, that calculates age not based on chronology, but rather lifestyle and health. At the time I was 45.

No idea where I am now, but certainly I'm not getting younger :(

Regarding that comfort link... My work setup is actually almost exactly like that. My home setup, my table is way too high it seems. For typing it's fine, but for mouse use.... no good, I think I might have to build an additional shelf onto the table. :eek:
 
That's interesting! For anyone who wants to take such a test, I have located one: Life Expectancy Calculator

Mine lists me a 9.6 virtual years old. LOL. Guess that means I am mostly healthy.
 
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Crap I feel OLD. Went out for drinks today after work with colleagues... I don't remember how it came up, but we came to the question of age.

Sadly I recall taking somekind of a test years ago, when I was younger, that calculates age not based on chronology, but rather lifestyle and health. At the time I was 45.

No idea where I am now, but certainly I'm not getting younger :(

Regarding that comfort link... My work setup is actually almost exactly like that. My home setup, my table is way too high it seems. For typing it's fine, but for mouse use.... no good, I think I might have to build an additional shelf onto the table. :eek:

:tinfoil: im just really young ...

yeah i think i need to raise my monitor. it sits right on the desk and i think its making me hunch over.

did you read on to mouse usage? they said the mouse should only move with your fingers between the thumb and pinky fingers. :undecided:

do you type/use the mouse while resting your arms on an arm rest? i took the arms off of mine, partially because they are a bit too wide and probably not at the right height, but also just to see what happened. im not sure if it better or worse.:can:

btw as far as how i said the wrist brace wont help. its because its not the actual wrist its the tendons from the fingers, as i understand it.

does your wrist hurt on the inside of your arm or on one of the sides? it may help with side to side though :thinking:
 
FML... Virtual age 38.9, life expectancy 63.1. Seems both my family history, and lifestyle essentially point to the same thing... live fast and die young :eg:

Then again I came to the expectation that I would not be long for this world, nor would I want o be alive, long past 65. Quality of life takes a HUGE plunge once you get into late sixties, or at best mid seventies.

Edit:

Here's my mouse at/mousepad at home. I know... might be time from a new one :o

2012-11-16210113Custom.jpg

2012-11-16210058Custom.jpg

2012-11-16210029Custom.jpg
 
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any good links for how to adjust posture? Like, I've got a fancy "ergonomic" chair, but I know I'm not sitting in it right, because the front of the desk rests on my stomach and I'm pretty much resting my chin on my chest, recliner style. Also, I don't understand your comment about chair height and the 90 degree elbow angle. So, I'm supposed to be at a height where my elbow IS greater than 90 degrees? And my wrist, if anything, should bend what, downwards towards the mouse to keep my tendons from scratching on my bones?

While you ought to try other postures, etc. the main goal is to sit in the manner that is most comfortable to you for the longest periods of time.

There are studies that show that sitting back at around 135 degrees is optimal, rather than up straight. It puts less strain on your spine. Still, look at the guy's neck. That can't be comfortable, so it's going also depend on the chair, and whether other parts of your body are comfortable as well.

I believe that the most ergonomic and proper way to sit is the way that produces the least strain for as many parts of your body as possible. Many "proper" postures, etc. assume a certain set of conditions. Many of those conditions are outdated.

The traditional typing posture, for example, was established in different times. Think about the equipment people were using in when the proper posture for typing was established: hard straight-back chairs without armrests; keyboards that were elevated inches above the surface of the table; transcribing from papers on the desk, rather than other sources. The keyboards, or rather typewriters, were mechanical devices; electric typewriters weren't developed until later. Having your hands raised above the keyboard would give you more ability to use your arm to push the keys, not your wrist, reducing strain. It made sense that "proper" posture was important--for that technology.

It's not the 1950s anymore. We've got other options, better equipment, and don't use the same techniques for our technology. For example, nowadays you're supposed to have the keyboard at around waist level, instead of above on your desk. This saves you the effort of elevating your arms, reducing strain. This is possible because you're not requiring to put much force into your typing, and now you've got computer monitors to work with.

The same kind of thing occurs with slouching. My friend works on his computer (laptop) in much the same way you describe, with his back almost completely on the chair, chin to chest, and his legs outwards. Because my friend only uses the laptop, he doesn't need to move his head around, which would require straining his neck. It's comfortable for him because all parts of his body are supported by the chair so he's relaxed.

This may be different for a different situation. To go back to the traditional typing posture, many of those typists were concentrating on transcribing documents. Having a straight back to look down on papers on your desk would be important. These days, however, transcribing is rarely done. Your head is level with your monitor, and it is more important to keep your head level with your screen, not perched above your desk.

I started thinking about this with chairs in general. This was after my legs would fall asleep on longer flights. What makes a chair comfortable to sit on for long periods of time? The answer came to me: evenly distributed pressure. Distributing the pressure ensures that individual parts of your sitting body (butt, lower thighs, back, neck, etc.) don't individually have their circulation cut off and start hurting. When typing, it's not so much important to have your knees bent at 90 degrees, but rather finding that balance that prevents your legs from cutting off circulation, while also not causing too much angled pressure on your lower legs.

All this will depend quite a bit on what your furniture can do for you as well. If you have a chair that can support your lower back while slouched, as well as your neck, maybe 135 degrees is the best angle. If you're in some chair that doesn't support your back, you'll need to sit up straight.

We've got so many ergonomic technologies at our disposal. Rather than be forced into some posture, why not adapt your furniture to suit the way you work? There's no one-true-way to sitting comfortably. The important thing is that you're aware of what makes you comfortable, and can make adjustments to become comfortable.
 
do you type/use the mouse while resting your arms on an arm rest? i took the arms off of mine, partially because they are a bit too wide and probably not at the right height, but also just to see what happened. im not sure if it better or worse.:can:

btw as far as how i said the wrist brace wont help. its because its not the actual wrist its the tendons from the fingers, as i understand it.

does your wrist hurt on the inside of your arm or on one of the sides? it may help with side to side though :thinking:

The discomfort/pain is on the inside for me.

I've been paying attention a lot to my comfort level at work, vs home, and what I notice is at work, my table is lower. The weight of my arms is essentially supported,and distributed to my whole forearm.

At home though that same weight is focused on a much smaller area.

I think this may well be the impetus I need to go ahead and buy a new desk. So many new designs out now... plus mine has quite a few laser burns on it now :o
 
Bionic: i would rep you 5x if i could. that makes more sense than any chart i have observed. but i also think some things are universal so to speak, for instance when it comes to wrist placement while typing i doubt it is ever a good idea to have an extreme angle of the wrists. but the back, sitting up straight ETC do make sense as it being personal.

but i used to sit like your friend everyday... now im typing the majority of this with my left hand.

@ IE looks like your fingers are quite curled up is that how it always is. and if you need a new mat i am very happy with my mionix propus

tap on the inside of your wrist do any of your fingers get numb, tingly or have pins and needles?
 
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Nope, no tingling from tapping anywhere, but I am familiar with sensation you are describing, and have experienced plenty of times. It is quite possible that I'm just being a hypochondriac, and regular fatigue is just aggravating the issue.
 
update:

i went to the doctor today. he wants me to wait a little while before he does anything drastic. he thinks i have carpal tunnel but says he has never seen some one as young as me with it. he gave me a brace to wear for now...
 
Hopefully it's nothing serious. Maybe it's a circulation problem?

Keeping your arm+wrist level might help, but it can be hard if you have bad habits. By accident more than by design, my wrists are generally the only things that touches the desk surface, the rest of my arm hangs off. It actually keeps my hand relatively level with my arm which might explain why I don't suffer from many problems when typing.

I have had that tingling sensation before, but it usually didn't last, and I can't recall what circumstances may have caused it. Maybe it was when playing a game using the number-pad for movement instead of WSAD.

Keeping a log of what you were doing when things started to hurt could help you identify what is causing your problems. It might help the doctor with the diagnosis too.
 
any good links for how to adjust posture?

Sit and work in whatever way feels comfortable to you.

There are plenty of guidelines to what would be the 'best' way to sit at a desk in front of a monitor and keyboard, but those rarely include the factor of experiencd comfort.

When condig 'in the zone' i may be totally off, nose to the screen, folded up in a desk chair, legs in buddha crossed position and all. Ergonomically that is all complety wrong. but if that allows me do do a days work in an hour, is it really that bad? It does leave an additional 7 hours on a comfortable couch or something similar :)
 
Hopefully it's nothing serious. Maybe it's a circulation problem?

Keeping your arm+wrist level might help, but it can be hard if you have bad habits. By accident more than by design, my wrists are generally the only things that touches the desk surface, the rest of my arm hangs off. It actually keeps my hand relatively level with my arm which might explain why I don't suffer from many problems when typing.

I have had that tingling sensation before, but it usually didn't last, and I can't recall what circumstances may have caused it. Maybe it was when playing a game using the number-pad for movement instead of WSAD.

Keeping a log of what you were doing when things started to hurt could help you identify what is causing your problems. It might help the doctor with the diagnosis too.

i hope so too.. i think its not only about form but just maybe some peoples tendons dont get as easily inflamed as others? for example i know people who are on the computer 3x as muxh as me with 3x worse form and they have no pain. the circulation thing is a good idea ill ask the doctor next time i see him.
 


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