1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

[Benm]

It's not overy hard to defend yourself against though, simply wearing glasses might already help quite a bit.

Another factor is that it's actually quite dangerous, as it's also very irritating to the lungs and could cause severe respiratory problems.

There are various potencies of the stuff, and they should probably be considered chemical weapons. Things like pepper spray and tear gas in general are actually prohibited in warfare, but legal in domestic crowd control in many countries... crazy stuff

 

[RedCowboy]

You have to think about the aftermath of your actions.

You never want to have to shoot someone, especially outside of your home, many days in court defending yourself and more could be involved and you must never be the aggressor, even in States like mine where we have ( Stand your ground ) laws I still feel a moral duty to retreat because people do lose their temper, why destroy someone for having a bad day, be the good guy and walk away, who cares what trash they talk just walk away, but if you have to use force cracking someones head against the ground can still be much worse than pepper spray, and a dazzler I would be afraid to use in anything other than all out anarchy where mass chaos necessitated it's use to escape a violent crowd situation.

If there is an active shooter RUN AWAY.

But I would rather people sprayed than dazzled, I would rather be sprayed myself than risk permeant blindness.

Pepper spray is known as a defensive tool, but you still don't want to use it unless you have to.
However in the case of pepper spray you may not want to display it to deter because you want the element of surprise to get a good eyes shot, that's why a bright flashlight goes well with it.
My point is I would much rather explain why I sprayed someone than shot, stabber, battered, or dazzled them because spray is typically seen as defensive in nature.
I buy the hottest stuff I can get, not to be cruel, but some people such as military and prison inmates can take the level 1 stuff because of repeated contact with it, so I buy hot stuff and hope to never need it, ( I have seen it used in person and it works ) 18% is nasty stuff and I don't buy the tiny cans.
Also there is shelf life and you need to shake it every so often, and before use if possible.
I carry it when walking at night as we have packs of dogs running around, and command presence usually works but there is the pack mentality and if the alpha is aggressive the others will follow.

MILK is the best neutralizer, regular cow milk.

 

[Benm]

You use the stuff on wild dogs?

Seems interesting though i doubt it's always effective.

As far as people being able to withstand it with training that is somewhat plausible. Capsacin is an intersting substance that activates heat receptors, but there is actually no damage. I guess in some parts of India or Pakistan people would just be offended you sprayed them with a curry ingredient

For animals i wonder if it is effective since it doesn't actually render them immobile or something, and they just could plough through the pain on enough adrenaline - perhaps similar to drugged out people.

 

[Rivem]

You use the stuff on wild dogs?

Seems interesting though i doubt it's always effective.

As far as people being able to withstand it with training that is somewhat plausible. Capsacin is an intersting substance that activates heat receptors, but there is actually no damage. I guess in some parts of India or Pakistan people would just be offended you sprayed them with a curry ingredient

For animals i wonder if it is effective since it doesn't actually render them immobile or something, and they just could plough through the pain on enough adrenaline - perhaps similar to drugged out people.

It works very well on most predatory mammals. Bear spray is the same stuff but a bit more powerful, and it has proven to be much more effective for avoiding bear attacks than most pistols. I've heard of people using it against cats (if they spot them first) and dog packs with decent success as well. I think they might just be a bit more sensitive to it than people are.

Don't expect to use it on a raged ostrich, cassowary, or emu though. :crackup:

 

[Benm]

It will not work on -any- bird indeed, the peppery plants produce capsacin to avoid being eaten by mammals but promote birds eating the fruit, spreading the seed further. I'm not sure about reptiles, but they might not be sensitive too, so don't go pepperspraying snakes either

I'm not overly sure it will work against bears, wolves or packs of dogs. I suppose it will if they aren't overly hungy and the pain isn't worth the effort needed to survive. If hungy enough things like lions will go for stupid targets like adult elephants, though that's usually the last thing they do.

 

[RedCowboy]

The pepper spray the cops and military train new troops with is a level 1, something like 0.5 percent I think, even the police carry spray is weaker than civilian market spray and animal spray for dogs is weaker as their nose is sensitive.

This 18% 3,000,000 SHU stuff you can buy on ebay is no joke and you don't want to test it on yourself, you could have your airway close up, rubbing your eyes is a mistake and water only helps a little, cow milk contains a protein that binds and neturalizes it the fastest, but what's already under your skin takes time to get over.

 

[Benm]

Yeah, i still don't like them as a product in law enforcement at all. People might just start wearing gas masks to render them immune to any concentration of the stuff.

What makes it worse is that one wearing a gas mask you can bring a bit of punch yourself, not limited to capsacin. I suppose the last thing we would want is people wearing gas masks blasting around mustard gas or worse without suffering ill effect themselves. Chemical warfare is interesting in many ways, but street application is not one of them, even if it just starts with peppers.

 

[Pesbra]

Blinding someone with a laser is a war crime, even if they are shooting at you and you survive, if you blinded them with a laser you still go to prison, and what you just now said here will be used against you as proof of pre meditation, IT IS A WAR CRIME, it's actually on the books.
You are well advised to get that idea out of your head.

This is not correct. The military and law enforcment use lasers as less lethal options to deterr possible assailants.

https://tnvc.com/shop/glare®-mout-plus-visible-green-laser/

Whether it is legal for civilians to posess and carry such devices is an entirely diffrent question.

 

[RedCowboy]

The US military uses TALI - Threat Assessment Laser Illumination. TEMPORARY blinding lasers ( might ) be used overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq but not BLINDING lasers and I have not seen American police use them at all except on bomb robots and only the temporary flash blinding type. They are too risky for use in daily citizen interactions.

Laser designators and small arms aiming lasers are a different topic.

Temporary blinding lasers are usually green 515-532nm, there's also a puke ray that is multi color but not in use as far as I know. Maybe in Europe.

Temporary blinding lasers are designed to induce temporary flash blindness, but American police use Tasers and pepper spray because the NOHD varies from person to person and what is need to temporarily blind can also sometimes do lasting damage, it's too much of a liability, maybe for prisoner control, but not that I am aware of, kinetic bean bags and large rubber bullets, along with Tasers and pepper sprays are the non lethal tools of prison guards.

Now anti material lasers are as far as I know always invisible and the latest fiber type are in the 1050nm - 1250nm range and possibly over 1550nm so they ( the 1550nm and lower frequency/higher nm number ) are eye safe as far as powerful diffuse reflections until the point of physical destruction, but are retina safe as for diffuse reflections.

The permanently blinding lasers are not in the visible 400-800nm range, that would induce the blink reflex, they are in the 850-1400nm invisible range that still is focused by the eye's lens onto the retina and as far as I know only the Chinese military uses those. They are a violation of the Geneva convention and a war crime if used for human maiming/blinding but acceptable for anti material and range finding.

The early Abrams tank rangefinder used a flash lamp pumped crystal that could blind a soldier in an instant PERMANENTLY although that was not it's purpose, it was for range finding, but now they have switched to 1550nm and beyond to avoid blinding incidents and for tactical reasons.

--------INFO--------
The ELRF is a highly accurate, hardened system for the fire control sight in the Abrams Main Battle Tank. The ELRF gives the tank gunner the ability to determine target ranges in all battlefield conditions including fog, smoke, dust, sand and haze. Additionally, the rangefinder allows U.S. forces to train safely against each other.
Read more: http://www.defencetalk.com/laser-ra...-abrams-main-battle-tank-10884/#ixzz4J4v66t5a
---------------------

THE ORIGINAL QUESTION YOU TOOK MY QUOATED ANSWER FROM WAS ABOUT USING A 445nm 1 Watt LASER AND THAT IS NOT USED BY MILITARY OR POLICE, NOT FOR TEMPORARY-IT WON'T WORK FOR THAT, and NOT FOR PERMENANT AS IT'S NOT PRACTICAL OR LEGAL.

Read the entire thread!

BTW, Hello VG, whazzzup

 

[Theodore41]

The US military uses TALI - Threat Assessment Laser Illumination. TEMPORARY blinding lasers ( might ) be used overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq but not BLINDING lasers and I have not seen American police use them at all except on bomb robots and only the temporary flash blinding type. They are too risky for use in daily citizen interactions.

Laser designators and small arms aiming lasers are a different topic.

Temporary blinding lasers are usually green 515-532nm, there's also a puke ray that is multi color but not in use as far as I know. Maybe in Europe.

Temporary blinding lasers are designed to induce temporary flash blindness, but American police use Tasers and pepper spray because the NOHD varies from person to person and what is need to temporarily blind can also sometimes do lasting damage, it's too much of a liability, maybe for prisoner control, but not that I am aware of, kinetic bean bags and large rubber bullets, along with Tasers and pepper sprays are the non lethal tools of prison guards.

Now anti material lasers are as far as I know always invisible and the latest fiber type are in the 1050nm - 1250nm range and possibly over 1550nm so they ( the 1550nm and lower frequency/higher nm number ) are eye safe as far as powerful diffuse reflections until the point of physical destruction, but are retina safe as for diffuse reflections.

The permanently blinding lasers are not in the visible 400-800nm range, that would induce the blink reflex, they are in the 850-1400nm invisible range that still is focused by the eye's lens onto the retina and as far as I know only the Chinese military uses those. They are a violation of the Geneva convention and a war crime if used for human maiming/blinding but acceptable for anti material and range finding.

The early Abrams tank rangefinder used a flash lamp pumped crystal that could blind a soldier in an instant PERMANENTLY although that was not it's purpose, it was for range finding, but now they have switched to 1550nm and beyond to avoid blinding incidents and for tactical reasons.

--------INFO--------
The ELRF is a highly accurate, hardened system for the fire control sight in the Abrams Main Battle Tank. The ELRF gives the tank gunner the ability to determine target ranges in all battlefield conditions including fog, smoke, dust, sand and haze. Additionally, the rangefinder allows U.S. forces to train safely against each other.
Read more: Laser Rangefinder for the M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank | at DefenceTalk
---------------------

THE ORIGINAL QUESTION YOU TOOK MY QUOATED ANSWER FROM WAS ABOUT USING A 445nm 1 Watt LASER AND THAT IS NOT USED BY MILITARY OR POLICE, NOT FOR TEMPORARY-IT WON'T WORK FOR THAT, and NOT FOR PERMENANT AS IT'S NOT PRACTICAL OR LEGAL.

Read the entire thread!

BTW, Hello VG, whazzzup[/QUOTEI].I have read your saying,and after that, I have a question to ask.
If someone breaks into my home,there are three possibilities.I have not any aid,human or mechanical to defend myself,I have a gun,or I have a strong laser.
What should I do,if the invasion is in the night,so I don't see the intruder very well,to understand if he is armed and dangerous?
Should I surrender saying, do what you want,to me and my wife and children?
I wait your answer with all do respect.

 

[RedCowboy]

You can defend your home by any means necessary, but I recommend having another plan other than a laser used to blind.

We live in a troubled time, you could be sued for blinding a home invader and have your wages/bank account/property taken away to pay for damages if a judge or jury rules what you did as cruel and unusual.

Remember a home invader can lie in court after the fact and say you invited them to spend the night, this is why people often say that it's better to only have 1 person talking after a home invasion and the other dead.

If I could not own a gun I would have a bow and arrows.

For what it's worth I would NOT find you guilty of any crime for defending your home with a blinding laser, but others might, it would better to use pepper spray and a bright flashlight.

If you wanted to use a green dazzler laser to temporarily disable you need to know the power of your laser and the diameter of your projected spot needed to safely disable without doing lasting damage and be ready to verbally demonstrate that you knew the protocol and have a printed copy so you can prove in court that you did not attempt to cruelly maim.

But if you must defend your family you must do anything, but do think about the aftermath and be prepared.

 

[Theodore41]

You can defend your home by any means necessary, but I recommend having another plan other than a laser used to blind.

We live in a troubled time, you could be sued for blinding a home invader and have your wages/bank account/property taken away to pay for damages if a judge or jury rules what you did as cruel and unusual.

Remember a home invader can lie in court after the fact and say you invited them to spend the night, this is why people often say that it's better to only have 1 person talking after a home invasion and the other dead.

If I could not own a gun I would have a bow and arrows.

For what it's worth I would NOT find you guilty of any crime for defending your home with a blinding laser, but others might, it would better to use pepper spray and a bright flashlight.

If you wanted to use a green dazzler laser to temporarily disable you need to know the power of your laser and the diameter of your projected spot needed to safely disable without doing lasting damage and be ready to verbally demonstrate that you knew the protocol and have a printed copy so you can prove in court that you did not attempt to cruelly maim.

But if you must defend your family you must do anything, but do think about the aftermath and be prepared.

Thank you very much

 

[nakedlaseruser]

In a close up active shooter case of course a ccw is the answer. But in a case like in Vegas this summer there was NO defending unless one had a laser pointer to at least distract the pos. If more than one person (like everyone that went together, as no one goes to concerts alone) was able to react with a powerful green laser it may slow his firing a bunch.
Also more than one or several pointers responding, would reduce the chances of the shooter targeting one defender.
Team work may more likely prevail.

 

[diachi]

In a close up active shooter case of course a ccw is the answer. But in a case like in Vegas this summer there was NO defending unless one had a laser pointer to at least distract the pos. If more than one person (like everyone that went together, as no one goes to concerts alone) was able to react with a powerful green laser it may slow his firing a bunch.
Also more than one or several pointers responding, would reduce the chances of the shooter targeting one defender.
Team work may more likely prevail.

Or the shooter would just continue spraying bullets all over the place. It's not like he had to aim for a small target at some long distance. He was aiming for a field full of people.

Lasers aren't the answer.

 

[BobMc]

Poses an interesting question;

Which is better, with the exact same weapon with the exact same rate of fire (all things being equal)

1) to aim directly into a crowd and fire.

2) to fire and spray indirectly into a crowd.

:thinking:

 

[BowtieGuy]

Bob, if it's a large crowd you're shooting at, wouldn't those two options be basically the same thing?