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Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

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plexus

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I did not say that I thought it was this build. I was noting that cd520 thought it was the negative and the case pin and I thought it looked like the positive and the case pin. And I see this is a flexdrive not a microboost.

It is a good point however and the advice i would give people new to electronics (or even those with experience) is check all your connections before you do the "smoke test" (apply power). check and double check. even triple check and question every connection. also don't rush steps: check that you have the right polarity going to where you are going to take the power from, when you solder the wires to it, don't solder to the driver, but check that you are getting power and at the right polarity. solder to the driver and then connect the driver to a dummy load. test that. etc etc.

Initially i soldered the case pin as in the pics, then before i was going to power on i checked everything and checked against the documentation. it was then that i realized there was some issues with the case pin and because of the way i had it wired i didn't need the case pin connected. so i desoldered it and checked everything again.

powered on and success!
 





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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

On the flamin build plexus I know this sounds redundant, but did you short the caps.

I've forgotten to do this on my first 2 6x back in the day (send the kids over to the neighbors when your doing your builds) I just felt to ask. Oh and there is a gray area
that sellers of kits should and purchasers should cover. I've said this in other post
selling lasers is a pain.
 

plexus

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

On the flamin build plexus I know this sounds redundant, but did you short the caps.

I've forgotten to do this on my first 2 6x back in the day (send the kids over to the neighbors when your doing your builds) I just felt to ask. Oh and there is a gray area
that sellers of kits should and purchasers should cover. I've said this in other post
selling lasers is a pain.

hey jander. yes i did. before connecting the leads to the ld i shorted them together.

i agree re building things for other people. as i mentioned i did that with a small tool. i found my customers expected some kind of warranty. and they were right because as a customer myself thats what i would want. hence this thread.
 
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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

On the flamin build plexus I know this sounds redundant, but did you short the caps.

I've forgotten to do this on my first 2 6x back in the day (send the kids over to the neighbors when your doing your builds) I just felt to ask. Oh and there is a gray area
that sellers of kits should and purchasers should cover. I've said this in other post
selling lasers is a pain.
I am sorry, but what driver are we talking here?

If caps needed to be shorted in a boost driver, that means that at some point it wa powered without a load, and that means it's a toast.

I am not aware of FlexDrive's protection for that but I believe MicroBoost has a protection for OC.

I also don't know any other driver's protection for that... only if MicroBoost was used, then it makes sense.
 

jayrob

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I have a highlighted warning in my instruction sheet about not powering the driver without a load. (although I did not sell plexus a 'Hot' option)


i agree re building things for other people. as i mentioned i did that with a small tool. i found my customers expected some kind of warranty. and they were right because as a customer myself thats what i would want. hence this thread.


Wow this is getting crazy...

I would like to clear a couple of things up here...

You did not ask me for a refund. But if you wanted one, then that would have been fine. (before you used the kit)

Also, I did not even do a 'Hot' option on your kit. And even if I did the 'Hot' option, it would be tested. If you damage something during assembly, how can you expect somebody else to be responsible for it?

Here's the thing...

I had no idea you were so upset about this transaction??

You bought a basic kit with copper upgrades, but no hot option or anything. And I delivered exactly what you ordered. At no time did I even think you expected me to pay for your diode and/or driver?? (just common sense)

These are items that you got from somebody else. (I don't sell diodes) And during the assembly, you accidentally had damage.

It's not that I don't feel for you. It's just that it was in no way any fault of mine... So I offered my condolences, and proceeded to try and explain some methods and tips for easy assembly...

This is actually very common for a first time build. Many people kill diodes... (and drivers too)

I have killed $300 dollar diodes before. (way back when) Now that hurts!

P.S. Your picture of the driver connection shows that it is connected wrong:

SS%2018650%20plexus.jpg


Yes I read that you said you changed it before you powered it...

But this picture raises questions about your building skills. And diodes are sensitive. It is so easy to damage a diode or a driver...
 
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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Jay, I hope that you did not read my post as taking up things a notch... I would not have posted as such if that was the case. I was nursing the wounds (best I could) of plexuses injury EA diode death.

were good right my man.:)
 
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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I have a highlighted warning in my instruction sheet about not powering the driver without a load. (although I did not sell plexus a 'Hot' option)





Wow this is getting crazy...

I would like to clear a couple of things up here...

You did not ask me for a refund. But if you wanted one, then that would have been fine. (before you used the kit)

Also, I did not even do a 'Hot' option on your kit. And even if I did the 'Hot' option, it would be tested. If you damage something during assembly, how can you expect somebody else to be responsible for it?

Here's the thing...

I had no idea you were so upset about this transaction??

You bought a basic kit with copper upgrades, but no hot option or anything. And I delivered exactly what you ordered. At no time did I even think you expected me to pay for your diode and/or driver?? (just common sense)

These are items that you got from somebody else. (I don't sell diodes) And during the assembly, you accidentally had damage.

It's not that I don't feel for you. It's just that it was in no way any fault of mine... So I offered my condolences, and proceeded to try and explain some methods and tips for easy assembly...

This is actually very common for a first time build. Many people kill diodes... (and drivers too)

I have killed $300 dollar diodes before. (way back when) Now that hurts!

P.S. Your picture of the driver connection shows that it is connected wrong:

SS%2018650%20plexus.jpg


Yes I read that you said you changed it before you powered it...

But this picture raises questions because it's so easy to damage a diode or a driver...

I wouldn't worry, I don't think Plexus's comments reflect badly on anyone concerned at all.

I think whenever transactions take place, in any context, there's always the risk of expectations on both sides not aligning exactly, and that's what I see here.

His review and comments are his honest perspective, and he seems to have delivered it in as unbiased a way as possible.

I don't think the review is unfair, as it's his point of view, and I don't think it will affect yours or FP's image at all. All it will do is raise awareness to the likes of me who are about to get onto their first builds.

Furthermore, if any potential customers have read this and focused on negative points, and subsequently chosen not to buy, then they're likely not to be the ideal customer anyway. Imagine how they might react if something unexpected happened.

Actually, I might go for the easy build kit you recommended earlier as I'll have enough to contend with. Putting my first DDL driver together, recently, felt more like defusing a bomb for me anyway. Beads of sweat, shaking hands, the works!

If anything, without reading this review, I might have entered into my first build over-confident and learned the hard way.
 

DTR

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Ok now I am lost. If you just bought the host and heatsink what needs to be warrantied?:thinking: Is the host or heatsink damaged?

On my first builds I had Jay do a hot kit so I could visualize and learn how he hooked everything up before I jumped in and started doing my own.

I'll refund you if you want. Send me the host and heatsink You pay shipping and I give you the $55 that you paid for the kit.;)
 

plexus

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Learn to use the edit and multiquote buttons

Ya, the problem here now in this thread is that you are not reading my posts. To summarize:

- jayrob build, very hard to work with, was very careful to ensure HS and pill turned at the same time, still there must have been a very slight deviation in spinning both at the same time, shorted out the driver output killing the driver. i asked for a replacement for the driver and was refused.

- flaminpyro build, diode was bad and failed. was not offered a refund or exchange.

- the case pin soldered to the anode was never powered up. i saw the connection before applying power (but after taking the pics) and left the case pin floating

- i always short out the output of a driver after testing on a dummy load regardless of if its needed or not

- drivers were never powered on without being on a load

i hope that clears things up.

I wouldn't worry, I don't think Plexus's comments reflect badly on anyone concerned at all.

I think whenever transactions take place, in any context, there's always the risk of expectations on both sides not aligning exactly, and that's what I see here.

His review and comments are his honest perspective, and he seems to have delivered it in as unbiased a way as possible.[snip]

thanks bbshamsa. that was my intent. i do not know flaminpyro or jayrob personally. i decided to buy BOTH kits so i could compare and do a review. this is my review (and more to come with measurements). the point here was for ME to take the costs of buying these two different kits to provide a review FOR YOU (and this forum). there was no benefit to me in doing this. the benefit was to you and future builders.

These are my experiences. I did not hope nor intend for there to be any issues, but there were as stated. That allowed me to see what post-sale customer service was like with these two sellers.

There is no doubt that FLaminpyro, jayrob, drlava and all the other people that have gone out of their way to make products for us hobbyists, are fantastic and amazing and I, like you, am simply blown away that they'd do this for us. Thank you.

However, anyone who sells a product opens themselves up to the world of retail which includes customer service. You can avoid it or ignore it but the fact of the matter is, it is expected. This is one reason I got out of my "small tool" business because there was too much customer care require. I, niavely, thought that just making these tools would be give me thanks enough, but no. I was selling something to people, they were paying with their hard earned money, and expected customer support. That is fair.

I also know that I was opening myself up to possible back-lash because these people (FP< jayrob, et al) are highly regarded for making these products available to us. It is as much a labour of love as we as customers and hobbyists love lasers. But, I felt it would be worth it to give you and prospective kit builders some insight into the different kits, and seller, so you can make an informed decision.

If you buy jayrob's SS032 kit be prepared to work hard to get the pill and sink to turn at the same time and open yourself to risks associated with this (shorts). You can (and should) insulate all connection just in case this happens (especially the diode leads).

Jayrob's kit (over-all) is more expensive than Flayminpyro's. FP's kit does not require you to spin the two parts of jayrob's kit at the same time.

So you might think its a no brainer to get FP's kit. Maybe. There may be benefits to jayrob's kit. I want to spend more time with these two builds and do some measurement of heat dissipation before I say for sure, because I am seeing evidence that jayrob's kit is better at sinking heat and therefore might be worth extra money, hassle and risks.

If you could please give me some time, I will eventually provide details and measurements.

However, since one of the diodes FP sold me died and I was not offered a replacement (even though he agreed the diode was a problem from the start, and i even offered to split the difference), and, the flex drive in jayrob's kit died because of the short (and there are no more flex drives available) i am not going to be able to compare apples to apples.

The comparison will be done using FP's build+445nm+flexdrive vs jayrob's+12x405+microboost. It will not be an accurate comparison. If i could get another flex drive and another 445 i would be able to do an apples to apples comparison but I am not going to spend another $80US just to do this comparison.

In fact as i type this out i am questioning the value of comparing these two builds in terms of heat dissipation because they are now so different electronically. its probably not worth doing.
 
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jayrob

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

FP's one piece heatsink design is possibly a bit more mass. (depending on how much of the material is cut out for the driver cavity...

But my design (using the threaded pill), is going to have much better contact to the host via the bare metal threads on the pill. And especially because the pill can be tightened onto the heatsink. The heat transfer to the host via the bare metal threads is very good...

Both are good designs. It's just different build styles...

And yes, the assembly of my kit is a little more difficult. But if you know how to do it, it is not hard at all. There is just a method to learn. I have other (smaller kits) that make this one look like a walk in the park...

I also have kits that are much easier to assembly. Such as my black 18650 kit, or my 3405 kit... (these are recommended for a first build)
 
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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Thanks for the comparison, much appreciated! I have a Jayrob SS 18650 on order which includes a heatsink connected to the driver. This heatsink is in between the batteries and the driver but is isolated from the pill, correct? Couldn't some thermal adhesive tape be added to connect the driver heatsink to the pill for much better heat dissipation? From what I understand, the 3 minute duty cycle has a lot to do with the driver overheating and I want to avoid this.
 

DTR

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

There are advantages to the way each kit is set up. I wanted the pill to be in good contact with both the host and the heatsink and I think Jays build does a great job of it.

Also as I mentioned earlier there is no difficulty getting this unit in. It is just a matter of how you go about it. Obviously Jay has a tool that he suggests in his sales page and this technique that I showed is an excellent way to do it. You can also use a vice.

ss10440screwpill.jpg


When you do it like this the head spins up very effortlessly. And it ensures that the heatsink and pill are turning together. So to say "prepared to work hard to get the pill and sink to turn at the same time" is subject to them doing it whatever way you did it. I have taken mine apart twice and put it back together with ease.
 

plexus

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Here are my observations: the FP kit doesn't require the finesse or extra tools. The FP kit is 10g heavier than the jayrob kit. However my anecdotal experiences so far and indicating there is a little more heat dissipated from the jayrob kit than the FP kit, to the host. Keep in mind the jayrob kit I am using has the copper module and the FP kit uses the aixis module with the chrome plating removed by FP.

However the jayrob components were about $20US more than the FP components for the same set up.

I am not entirely sure the jayrob kit worth the extra money. I would have loved to have compared the two with actual measurements using my logging digital thermometer, but the other 445 diode died and I am not going to spend my own money to replace it.

One benefit of the FP kit for driver dissipation is that there is more room in the heat sink for the driver so the driver has more "air to breath" - further with a little work you can thermally couple the driver to the heat sink providing more effective heat dissipation to the heatsink and host than is possible with the jayrob kit.

I think if the jayrob kit provided some way to mechanically couple the pill to the heatsink, and the price was dropped, it would be the better option.
 

ped

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

I bought Jayrobs 18650 kit a while back, and never built one before, but as has been said before, a lot of this is "common sence" , yeah i had to spin the copper HS and the body part covering it at the same time, but i took my time, looked at it logically and figured out the way forward, but remember, Jayrob will offer any help you need regarding construction, if you are or where unsure, just throw him a PM and he'll point you in the right way, oh and the way his kit is put together (IMO) offers a tight fight and thus best thermal conductivity.

/ $0.02
 
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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Guys, I cannot figure out any possible way of construction that requires you to do what you are describing - spinning the heatsink and pill at same time , at same rate.

I mean, having 1 cm longer wires from driver to diode/heatsink (presumably driver is in the pill), and then unthreading the head apart to have the heatsink extrude from the head by that 1 cm, then threading the pill so the heatsink rotates freely in the air, after that, just push it back into the head and thread the retainer ring.

Or am I missing something here?
 

DTR

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Re: Flaminpyro SS >1W 445nm Build (image heavy)

Eudaimonium


The pill has threads on it that screw into the head's matching threads inside it. The pill with the heatsink on top of it is inserted from the bottom of the SS Kit host head. When it is screwed up all the way the heatsink presses tight against the lip on the top of the SS kit head. If this makes sense.


SS%2018650%207.jpg
 
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