The batteries' struggle

[nocturn9x]

I recently bought a 532nm green laser from ebay, and it came without a battery. I tried it with my ecig's 18650 3.7V Li-ion battery and it seems to work like a charm, although I later found out it's supposed to be used with 2 16340 3.7V batteries (the contacts are a little loose so sometimes I need to shake it a bit to make the battery connect again). Today I received my class 4B (is that even a rating? I thought nothing was beyond 4) 450nm blue laser and tried the same thing (the seller here also recommends 2 16340 batteries): to my dismay, the laser is absurdly dim and quite divergent (although the adjustable focus fixed this a bit). I thought maybe the battery wasn't powerful enough and indeed when I put it back in my green laser it wouldn't turn on. "Maybe the blue laser drained the battery" I thought. So I went on Amazon and looked for '16340 3.7V rechargeable battery' and got blasted with all sorts of products with confusing names like type C or CR2 battery: what the hell does that even mean? Do you guys know exactly what I should look for on Amazon to find 2 pairs of the right batteries for my pointers?
Thanks in advance!

 

[nmbusa]

I recently bought a 532nm green laser from ebay, and it came without a battery. I tried it with my ecig's 18650 3.7V Li-ion battery and it seems to work like a charm, although I later found out it's supposed to be used with 2 16340 3.7V batteries (the contacts are a little loose so sometimes I need to shake it a bit to make the battery connect again). Today I received my class 4B (is that even a rating? I thought nothing was beyond 4) 450nm blue laser and tried the same thing (the seller here also recommends 2 16340 batteries): to my dismay, the laser is absurdly dim and quite divergent (although the adjustable focus fixed this a bit). I thought maybe the battery wasn't powerful enough and indeed when I put it back in my green laser it wouldn't turn on. "Maybe the blue laser drained the battery" I thought. So I went on Amazon and looked for '16340 3.7V rechargeable battery' and got blasted with all sorts of products with confusing names like type C or CR2 battery: what the hell does that even mean? Do you guys know exactly what I should look for on Amazon to find 2 pairs of the right batteries for my pointers?
Thanks in advance!

hi ya
if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells
Keeppower 18350 1200mAh
Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh
Golisi IMR18350 1100mAh
are a few great cells

 

[nocturn9x]

hi ya
if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells
Keeppower 18350 1200mAh
Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh
Golisi IMR18350 1100mAh
are a few great cells

Thanks! I'll give that a chance

 

[Unown (WILD)]

hi ya
if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells
Keeppower 18350 1200mAh
Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh
Golisi IMR18350 1100mAh
are a few great cells

Oh that's funny I just recently ordered a few Vapcell INR18350s. I saw on BLF that they were good.

 

[PineyTinecones]

They (Vapcel 18350’s) may be good now, I dunno. I think there was an inconsistency issue at one point, which I thought was currently, but after reading further I saw that the reviews were from 1-2 years ago. Apparently inconsistency is kind of common with 18350’s. No idea why that would be. *shrug*

Who’s this Mooch guy I keep reading about? Everyone talks about him like he’s the battery guru. I guess he tests a lot of batteries, and talks about their usefulness within the context of vaping.

 

[PineyTinecones]

How am I supposed to know what discharge rate I need to shoot for in a battery for a given laser?

The higher the discharge rate the lower the mAh, right? So I assume that if I choose a cell with an unnecessarily high discharge rate that’s more than what my laser will ask of it, I’m sacrificing mAh for no reason?

Edit: I never know when one of my questions is going to be perceived as the ultimate noob question that makes someone think “oh my god I can’t believe he didn’t Google this on his own, he’s wasting our time”. I see people getting the keyboard warrior equivalent of “chewed out” in older battery threads because they asked a question. It’s just hard to gauge what’s going to be considered a lack of trying. There’s just so much information to scour, I try to narrow it down by at least asking to be pointed in the general right direction by people who have already spent time sifting through all that bs. I’m not asking for someone to hold my hand. That’s just literally how different species become better adapted and more knowledgeable. If every individual has to learn all the same stuff for themselves in the same inefficient way, no one gets anywhere. That’s one of the reasons mammals in general and humans specifically have done so well throughout the relatively-more-recent history of life on earth. Generational/shared knowledge. All that to say, if a question of mine is perceived that way (as asked due to a lack of trying and an attempt to have my hand held), it’s probably done presumptuously and erroneously so, and if that’s the case, oh well. *shrugs* I’m just trying to quickly learn a sh*t-ton of stuff in a short amount of time, because I’m hyperfocusing hard and have a (needless but real) sense of urgency. Plus, now that I’ve ordered my lasers, I really want to get my batteries ordered to make sure there won’t be any delay. That would be excruciating to have those fly a*s lasers in hand and no juice to light ‘em up. Sorry for the soapbox. Just didn’t want to be misunderstood.

Grace and peace,
Ryan

P.S., That wasn’t directed towards anyone, and no one has said anything to me that prompted that. I appreciate all the help and advice I’ve received thus far and all the help and advice I might receive later!

 

[Unown (WILD)]

Typically any li ion battery can handle a least 1C recharge rate or 1A

 

[PineyTinecones]

Typically any li ion battery can handle a least 1C recharge rate or 1A

Gotchya. Soooo… let’s take Sanwu’s Guardian, for example. The spec sheet says it will draw anywhere from 0.5A - 2A. So does that mean as long as the 18350 I choose has a CDR of at least 2A, I’m good to go? And at that point I should be looking to maximize my mAh?

If that’s the case, I just need to find out what the power consumption of the Ranger is and I’ll be good to go. Problem is, they don’t have a spec sheet for the Ranger on Sanwu’s website like they do for all the other lasers. I also can’t find much info on that host because I don’t think many people own one. I can email Francis and ask, but first I want to make sure I’m wrapping my head around this correctly.

 

[icecruncher]

I still like this site when searching for any battery:

Parametrek Batteries

batteries.parametrek.com

mah determine how long it will run.
discharge rate is really only important if the driver draws a high current, but most good batteries will handle them.
too low a discharge battery MAY limit the current or cause other issues with overheating, etc.
protected have an additional circuit that is supposed to protect from over charge and over discharge.
battery numbers - first two digits are the diameter in mm (18650 - is 18mm diameter)
next three digits are the length in mm (18650 - is 65.0mm long)
so two 18350 batteries will be about 70mm long and 7.4 volts as opposed to one 18650, 3.7 volts and 65mm long
However protected batteries may be longer and the length is seldom exact

bigger batteries or better quality batteries usually last longer and have a higher discharge rate
18650 are the most common.

 

[Buert]

Thanks! I'll give that a chance

hi ya
if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells
Keeppower 18350 1200mAh
Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh
Golisi IMR18350 1100mAh
are a few great cells

All are rechargeable, right ?

 

[nmbusa]

All are rechargeable, right ?

yep
dont mistaken non rechargeable lithium cr123a which a bit smaller for cameras

 

[PineyTinecones]

Thank you, @icecruncher ! That was very helpful. So, if using 2x 18350’s instead of 1x 18650 doubles the voltage, it wouldn’t seem like they’d be interchangeable?
@nmbusa said “if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells”. How does that work?

Edit: You would only get the capacity of a single 18350, right? It’s not like the mAh or CDR would double, just the voltage. What does the extra voltage do for you? Sincerely asking. I am really ignorant when it comes to electricity, but I’m trying to change that

 

[WizardG]

Thank you, @icecruncher ! That was very helpful. So, if using 2x 18350’s instead of 1x 18650 doubles the voltage, it wouldn’t seem like they’d be interchangeable?
@nmbusa said “if 18650 fits get yourself high drain 18350 cells”. How does that work?

Edit: You would only get the capacity of a single 18350, right? It’s not like the mAh or CDR would double, just the voltage. What does the extra voltage do for you? Sincerely asking. I am really ignorant when it comes to electricity, but I’m trying to change that

Power=volts x amps

If you double the battery voltage, a good driver will cut the current draw by half.

If your laser will achieve full power with a good 18650 I'd go with that and use a protected cell. The 18350 types are usually unprotected, meaning you can drain them enough to ruin them. If you discharge a Liion battery too much it can't be recharged to its original capacity.

 

[PineyTinecones]

Power=volts x amps

If you double the battery voltage, a good driver will cut the current draw by half.

If your laser will achieve full power with a good 18650 I'd go with that and use a protected cell. The 18350 types are usually unprotected, meaning you can drain them enough to ruin them. If you discharge a Liion battery too much it can't be recharged to its original capacity.

Ah, that makes sense! I should’ve thought of that. I just learned from another thread that…
V • A = W (like you just explained)
…Which should’ve made me realize that if you’re supplying double the voltage, the laser should need half the amperage (Like you just explained). I don’t know why I didn’t think of that.

I think I’m starting to catch on. Everyone’s been pretty great to take the time to explain this stuff.

I’m going to ask the same question in this thread that I did earlier in another thread, for visibility’s sake. Im doing this because I’m really excited and I’m really eager to see if I’m understanding this correctly, and maybe I can get confirmation quicker this way. But if that’s a faux pas I’ll happily edit this part out:

Looking at the specs for the NUGM04 (and the NDG7D75T, which is likely the same diode from what I’ve read, but labeled differently because it’s not in a relay ), the max forward current is 2.3A, and the max operating voltage is 5.5V (4.7V average), which means the max wattage requirement would be 12.65W, not factoring in the driver. If we add 2W for the driver, that would make the maximum consumption ~14.65W. So when figuring what CDR I need to look for in a battery, I would take that 14.65W, divide it by the battery voltage of 3.7V (since it’ll be a single 18650), and I would get ~4A. So my CDR needs to be at least 4A.

Does this sound correct at all? Am I talking totally out of my a*s or what?

 

[WizardG]

Sounds about right. But you'll find more long-term happiness if you choose batteries capable of at least twice what you actually expect you'll need. The lower the internal resistance of the battery the better.

A battery with twice the mAh rating is no better than a lower rated cell if it starts sagging (voltage dropping under load) when it's only half discharged.

 

[nmbusa]

2x18350 instead of 1x18650 was for original post for anyone who missed it
a host that takes 1x18650 is usually for 3V led flashlights
for most lasers in the same host have to go the way of 2x18350 to get full output due to higher Vf of laser
another option is if there is an extension tube for host to use 2x18650 for higher capacity hence longer run times