Laser weapons.

Lumify · Jul 19, 2010

There is one difference between this forum and the comments on Kipkay's videos. This forum is inhabited by informed enthusiasts, and Kipkay's comment pages are inhabited by humanoid beings with walnut brains. If we turn away all of the walnut brain people, they'll just go buy an Arctic and destroy the hobby. If we can convert some of them to intelligent humans, then we gain new friends. Don't censor. Educate.

chipdouglas · Jul 19, 2010

Lumify said:
There is one difference between this forum and the comments on Kipkay's videos. This forum is inhabited by informed enthusiasts, and Kipkay's comment pages are inhabited by humanoid beings with walnut brains. If we turn away all of the walnut brain people, they'll just go buy an Arctic and destroy the hobby. If we can convert some of them to intelligent humans, then we gain new friends. Don't censor. Educate.

not true... there are 432 members and over 3000 guests. those 3000 probably make up pple here to "burn stuff"

google isn't a thinker, so when somebody types in "laser weapon" they will probably be directed here.

michael

Lumify · Jul 19, 2010

@chip You are right about those 3000 people (or at least 2000 out of 3000), but all of the useful information here isn't drowned out by those people. On pages like the Youtube video of Kipkay's laser giveaway, any mention of safety (or sanity) is drowned out by 10 pages of "OMG I JUST ENTERED AND I CANT STOP TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS!!!111!!11 I CANT WAIT TO GET THIS AND BURN MY SISTER'S PIMPLES OFF HER NOSE!!11!!!!"

What is happening now is just fine. When a n00b posts something about using a laser for something stupid, the next 3 posts condemn it and thoroughly explain why it's stupid. You don't see that on Youtube.

edit (I'm editing a lot recently...)- After reading the poll options again, I realized this forum as a whole already does have 0 tolerance towards talk of using lasers as private weapons. So what are we trying to change?

aryntha · Jul 19, 2010

edit (I'm editing a lot recently...)- After reading the poll options again, I realized this forum as a whole already does have 0 tolerance towards talk of using lasers as private weapons. So what are we trying to change?

Probably officialize it, maybe get it written into Avery's ToS, something like that. After the media breakout reecntly with the arctic it'd probably not be a bad idea.

nikokapo · Jul 19, 2010

I believe this could be solved if we just made one single thread regarding official use for laser weaponry (not DIY cancer weapons... damn it I miss Switch

) and then close any other thread with the same topic.

ossumguywill · Jul 19, 2010

It's basically inevitable that lasers will be the next generation of weapon, so I voted that discussion should be allowed. However, I think the poll has too few options. I think that seriously suggesting the purposeful and unreasonable use of lasers in a violent manner against people or animals is ban-worthy, but I myself have been considering lasers as a non-lethal form of defense. I think it's a legitimate topic that will have to be addressed at some point, no sense in hiding from it. I also feel like if we open the topic up we as a forum could be providing SAFE use of non-lethal defense to a lot of people who might not otherwise have such ability or instruction, which IMO is a good deed. We as a forum teach people how to build and SAFELY use lasers already, it's not too much of a stretch for us to teach people how to use laser WEAPONS safely as well too.

aryntha · Jul 19, 2010

ossumguywill said:
It's basically inevitable that lasers will be the next generation of weapon

Sort of yes, sort of no. There are a lot of things in development to be used against unmanned items such as missiles or drones.

Right now the Geneva Convention forbids using lasers against personnel. So unless that changes, I wouldn't say it's inevitable.

And stuff like this is probably the kind of discussion that SHOULD be okay, versus "lol how can i burn the #### out of my neighbor for playing his music too lowd lulz"

ossumguywill · Jul 19, 2010

The geneva convention forbids weapons specifically designed to permanently blind IIRC, it's not a problem if they also make a neat steaming hole in their head

But all I'm saying is zero-tolerance for laser weapon discussion is a bad thing, as it will get in the way of perfectly productive and educational posts about the future uses of lasers. Censorship is an awful idea, if we don't allow the teaching of proper laser use on this forum (no matter the use) it will be 10x worse for the hobby than allowing it as people will have nowhere to learn proper safety!

Tech_Junkie · Jul 19, 2010

I only want threads that are made to talk about lasers as a personal weapons deleted. If the topic comes up in another thread its fine.

Another forum I lurk wont allow threads on guns older than 1915. So its not unheard of.

ossumguywill · Jul 19, 2010

Lol 1915? Why then? And also I think lasers have a real future as personal defense weapons... I think at some point light weapons will be as ubiquitous as pepper spray or stun guns. Clearly lasers have a place in personal defense as demonstrated by dieselmarine, we might as well explore that.

Tech_Junkie · Jul 19, 2010

Never happen. Its easy to block light. Not so easy with pepper spray and stun guns. Plus the pepper spray, and stun guns incapacitate you. They over ride your whole body. Light can never do that. Plus you run the risk of pissing the perp off harder, resulting with a more fierce reaction.

I dont want to be a hypocrite and keep debating this, lets get back on topic please.

ossumguywill · Jul 19, 2010

This is precisely the place to debate this lol.... and light weapons are pretty effective :thinking: The military makes sure everyone has an 80+ lm light because they recognize the value of blinding someone... police forces and corporations around the world have dumped millions into LED dazzlers... and almost no one has used lasers yet, but now we have this new, high power, durable laser light source. It's harder to block light than pepper spray, as you can't actually look at your target when blocking light... and it's true that the reaction to light is not as strong, but the benefit to this is that there's almost no chance of an accidental death (which have happened with tasers and pepper spray). And on top of this, most people are freaked out the first time I shine my fenix on them... the only lights they've ever used are cheap maglites and stuff and to them this much light is totally debilitating. I think a laser can top that....

psi seeker 34 · Jul 19, 2010

Using light a a blinding weapon has been readily used ever since the dark ages when knights in "SHINING" armor would reflect sun light at their opponents in order to distract them and gain an advantage. This was widely used in jousting matches all across Europe for nearly a century. Using a laser is just a modernization of the concept that you can't hit a target you can't see. If safety is a concern use a <5mw laser or don't shine the beam directly into your attacker's eyes. After all a laser IS distracting at the very least regardless of output power but it becomes far more useful when the laser is >30mw and set for a very wide divergence so that the amount of light that would enter your attacker's eyes is less <1mw and is thus not permanently damaging. I have to admit that super bright flash lights work just as well as a laser would.

Edit: Not to mention that because lasers are used as gun sights they can be used as a convincing
bluff and sometimes that's all you need to get out of trouble.

Morgan · Jul 19, 2010

ossumguywill said:
Lol 1915? Why then? And also I think lasers have a real future as personal defense weapons... I think at some point light weapons will be as ubiquitous as pepper spray or stun guns. Clearly lasers have a place in personal defense as demonstrated by dieselmarine, we might as well explore that.

Off topic - It could be considered the year the machine gun came of age?

On topic - I think it will be clear as and when threads or posts should be deleted, even to those advocating the discussion of laser weapons. It's the numpties that will bring it up and with clear ignorance of all the other reasons it could be discussed legitimately. It should appear in the Rules so that it's clear why a thread or post goes missing and offenders can be referred to it.

I shouldn't think anyone of consequence would object to a rational debate of the tech and could possibly be enlightened by ideas that arise.

In short, yes, remove all inappropriate comments. Who should decide if they're inappropriate? That's a different question but one that will probably answer itself when the need arises.

M

chipdouglas · Jul 19, 2010

ossumguywill said:
The geneva convention forbids weapons specifically designed to permanently blind IIRC, it's not a problem if they also make a neat steaming hole in their head But all I'm saying is zero-tolerance for laser weapon discussion is a bad thing, as it will get in the way of perfectly productive and educational posts about the future uses of lasers. Censorship is an awful idea, if we don't allow the teaching of proper laser use on this forum (no matter the use) it will be 10x worse for the hobby than allowing it as people will have nowhere to learn proper safety!

iirc the geneva convention doesn't address weapons. it deal with humanitarian issues. it is the hague convention that deals with weapons.

michael

billm0066 · Jul 19, 2010

ossumguywill said:
This is precisely the place to debate this lol.... and light weapons are pretty effective :thinking: The military makes sure everyone has an 80+ lm light because they recognize the value of blinding someone... police forces and corporations around the world have dumped millions into LED dazzlers... and almost no one has used lasers yet, but now we have this new, high power, durable laser light source. It's harder to block light than pepper spray, as you can't actually look at your target when blocking light... and it's true that the reaction to light is not as strong, but the benefit to this is that there's almost no chance of an accidental death (which have happened with tasers and pepper spray). And on top of this, most people are freaked out the first time I shine my fenix on them... the only lights they've ever used are cheap maglites and stuff and to them this much light is totally debilitating. I think a laser can top that....

No it's not harder to block light than pepper spray. If someone sprays it in your general direction, it will burn your skin, and you hope you stop breathing because it will easily make it into your mouth, throat, and nose. I have been sprayed and it's was one of the worst feelings you can have. I have also been tazed and while that sucked, it wasnt as bad as the spray. I think a dazzler can be affective, but I would be willing to bet not a single cop would get rid of his mace or tazer for one.

Laser weapons.

Should we delete threads thats start with using lasers for private weapons?

Yes, we should have 0 tolerance towards talk of using lasers as private weapons.

No, all discussion should be allowed.

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