Why I think Laserglow is the best bargain!

[pseudonomen137]

Whoops. I need to start using the period one of these days. My mention about accuracy was towards the sellers of the envee (I think he called the site lucent optics). DL overexaggerates their power levels, and has done some other no-so-ethical things in the past, but I haven't heard of anything bad about lucent optics yet.

 

[windstrings]

Whoops. I need to start using the period one of these days. My mention about accuracy was towards the sellers of the envee (I think he called the site lucent optics). DL overexaggerates their power levels, and has done some other no-so-ethical things in the past, but I haven't heard of anything bad about lucent optics yet.

Did you test yourself to confirm this or find this out from a credible source?

so far, all I see is good reports about DL..... you could be right.. but have seen one report of someone who didn't feel their unit could do as it should.. its hard to tell if that was isolated, or a trend..... I would think if there was problems they would be more evident.

There is mudslinging and rumours about anyone who sways the crowds... many become jealous, and have all sorts of motives for taking them down.... look at microsoft!!!!....

I am definately interested in problems that are credible, but based on my own findings, I have yet to see any evidence they are less than reputable...... if anyone has proof or evidence to the contrary... I'm all ears.... but I hate to make my buying decision on anything that cannot be confirmed by others.

I"m sure you have good reasons for your feelings.... can you eleborate furthur?.... I still need to know as much as you know to feel the way you feel, otherwise all I can go on is what I know.

thanks....

 

[pseudonomen137]

I would rather not go too far into detail. If you read on LC back around the time when DL first came about, you will find lots of bad things. Two notable ones are when they started removing FDA stickers and many were being confiscated, and second was some asking for a RMAs, shipping it back, and only getting a refund. They refused to send another.

In general, as with WL when they sold the same, the power levels on these lasers will exaggerated. DL has told me >125mW average for 60 seconds. I personally buy some of these lasers direct from the manufacturer, and I have had some from WL, and I have learned enough about the population of them to know this is not true or possible. There are a few VERY VERY RARE examples that could qualify, but as said... they're rare. I've only seen one myself, and I'm keeping it as I don't expect to see another.

Mode and divergence are also issues. TEM01 and other mode problems have happened a bit on these, and divergence is over-exaggerated. DL claims <1.2mRad, CNI, the OEM, claims <1.5mRad... connect the dots. Not to mention that I feel CNIs spec over-exaggerated many of the CNI black/golds I've seen.

Not that I can't pose similar complaints about other companies, but in general I have less respect for DL.

 

[windstrings]

Two notable ones are when they started removing FDA stickers and many were being confiscated, and second was some asking for a RMAs, shipping it back, and only getting a refund. They refused to send another.

Humm.. I can understand the label thing as they know they are playing games with customs.... I have heard they will send another if its confiscated.. that would be hard to keep up if you left the "red flag" on that says "take me, take me!"

I doubt customs has formal laser check abilities and unless there is labeling admitting illegal powers they have no way of knowing the real power and so cannot or at least "will not" hold it without due reason... this is just my guess.

As far are refunding... I could see them suspecting RMA's as being from tampering and so they take the motto... "burn me once, your're fault.. burn me twice.. my fault.
But the customer should indeed know the policy up front to maintain trust and good relations.

Trust is everything in a business like this that explores unknown and hard to measure devices.

I don't know if things have been recified since then or if its a gamble as to what you get.. but I do see many recent posts of happy customers.

I do have concerns about the error I get if I attempt to send a note to the complaint center:
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 550 no such user - RCPT TO:<complaint@dragonlasers.com>

This error has been going on for close to two weeks that I know of and I cannot get an explanation?.. the error implies that email address doesn't exist?

However the other web based one seems to work.

Have you heard any rumours of the envee having a more powerful unit soon? or will they tweak up easily?

I never saw your reply the last time I enquired.

It does indeed appear to be a quality unit.. I just hate to have such a large unit with so little power. I would rather have a slightly more powerful unit thats smaller.. I"ve already bought the herc to go big.


edited:.... for some reason my email server was sending the wrong address to complaint@ instead of complaints@...
I finally got a reply and the error does not lie with DL

 

[pseudonomen137]

The removing stickers was likely an attempt to throw customs off, and A STUPID ONE. I don't need to prove this though, as the huge rush of "confiscated laser" posts after that proves it for me.
Those were just some examples though and are not worth arguing about. It is the fact that they blatantly LIE about the output power and specs that bothers me.

As for the Envees, sorry I didn't see your question earlier. I do not know about higher powers, but my bet would be no unless they sold a lot, and heavily upped the price on them. If they wanted, they could be like DL and call these 125mW units, and that is exactly what DL does (without going into exact details to prove this, I can say with confidence that calling an envee 100mW a 125mW would be no less than what DL does). However I am guessing they are honest in calling them 100mW, and as such, since the manufacturer does not appear to have plans on higher outputs, I would guess they do not either. Only way to offer >110's honestly would be to purchase enough units to get them on luck of the draw, and then sell them at a price to make up for it. Such units are rare, but they do exist (I sold a >120mW avg one once).

 

[windstrings]

If they wanted, they could be like DL and call these 125mW units, and that is exactly what DL does (without going into exact details to prove this, I can say with confidence that calling an envee 100mW a 125mW would be no less than what DL does). However I am guessing they are honest in calling them 100mW, and as such, since the manufacturer does not appear to have plans on higher outputs,

Well thats what bugs me.. neither one is producing graphs and putting all thier cards on the table.... I'm sure "both" peak about 125 for at least a mere second or more, but what is the criteria each use to say what is what?.. I don't know.
Its true, "both" could say "125mw" and be correct since there is not an iron clad standard.. especially out of China.... but CNI has developed quite a reputation.. some bad and some good.

Without one of them stepping up to the plate and actually revealing the techniques used to state thier powers, its hard to compare one against the other on paper alone.

My hat is off to laserglow for raising the bar and doing just that.

Nevertheless, I would love to see a post or a review of both side by side...the envee 100mw against the DL 125mw.
there is always variablity in doing such test.. because since it's indeed a luck of the draw as to whether you get a "hot" one or not, one could be cool measured against the other manufacturer with a hot one.

Unfortunatly I have not noticed anyone on the forums that have both. The field multiplied by hundreds of customers is the acid test.

If both companies went to a little extra trouble to run a graph and publish it... it would reveal weaknesses, but at the same time "strengths" too.

It would in the very least, bring massive credibility to the firms as long as the graphs were honest and always checked out ok when challenged.

It does seem you have a bad taste in your mouth about DL and there must have been heated discussion in the past about it, so I won't ask anymore to bring it all back up again. Obviously there was disagreement though rather than general consensus of agreement.

Based on that... I'm trying to ignore past errors as every company has evolved since then and there are "blips" on every screen.
But basic character and integrity seldom changes overnight without a major shakup.

I currently see alot of positives for both companies.... I suspect they are both indeed a good buy... one has lower power "as stated", more battery power, is bigger and has extra failsafes built in that obviously cost more to manufactur to remain perfectly legal in the states. Diode on lights, time delay etc etc. While the other remains straight laced and cheaper to make therefore more profit margin when sold at the same price.

I'm sure envee could be bitter or at lease resentful, when another company who has a higher profit margin because thier units are not built with the extra failsafes and possibly easier machine work, and even claim a higher power.. "as the envee looks machined to some degree". Laserglow has the same deliema.... people look at thier 100mw unit and say.. hey that cost X dollars more than this one and its bigger.. I getting the smaller one!.. but when you compare side by side, you see the true quality stomps on the other.
But since few every get the luxury of comparing "side by side" the delusion continues.....

I'm sure envee is an honest company or they would simply bump up the rating and call it a 125mw like you say, knowing it probrably hits that briefly and few could challenge since that seems to be the weak standard that many use anyway.

But it appears they are attempting to classify themselves with a higher class of laser similiar to laserglow....which is good.

But if the public is going to really be able to appreciate the extra work and honesty, they need to produce graphs of each unit sold.
This will be an enticement for the buyer as he knows exactly what he is buying and paying accordingly.

If a company finds it not to thier advantage to fullfill such a request, I see a smidge of dishonesty there too as they prefer to keep that information under the table so it remains a gamble?.. this allows them to sell weaker units on the same scale as the stronger units.

At this point the court needs to dismiss due to lack of evidence... all we have right now is mudslinging and conjecture.
We need some facts and proof.... whoever steps up first to put all thier cards on the table is the better man in my book.

I personally like laserglows approch... it all comes out in the wash......

When you get the units from CNI, its true you may not know what your're getting, but after you test them all and find that out, some will sell for less than the desired target price "to be competitive" but some will sell for more too!... isn't that being honest?

I know it would sure make the customer feel better.
And even if we all know the true story of each laser, some will still prefer DL due to thier sleek size and good looks in any occasion and some will prefer the more serious look and quality build of the envee.

I personally realize that with the existing system, I could get a really hot unit "by chance" or a really cool unit "by chance"....
I don't like the gamble!!!!! I would rather pay for what I'm getting and know what I'm getting and remove the doubts and gambles... wouldn't you?

All of us would love to get more than we pay for.. but it inflames to get less especially when we could barely afford it in the first place and we were anxious to get it and don't want the crap, time and hassle or sending it back.
They know we are at a disadvantage because few can measure accurate output.

my .02 cents....

 

[pseudonomen137]

Honestly, its understandable IMO for WL and DL to clain 125mW units and not deliver. They probably would if they could, but the simple fact is they can't, and there's pretty solid evidence to that. DL has told me 125mW average for 60 seconds, and I don't know what more there is to tell about the test besides perhaps ambient temperature, power source, etc. Either way though, this is a claim I am 100% certain they cannot meet on all the orders they get. But by claiming it, as WL has done, they get more $. That's all there is to it really IMO. Everyone wants "more power", few have the means to actually know what more power is than the companies word.

As for Envee vs. DL, I'm not sure what you are looking for. I have never purchased from either seller, but I have had multiple of both lasers. Keep in mind that the manufacturer neither makes a 100mW or 125mW of either model, though I have seen units capable of both. From what I've seen, the beam specs on both units are about the same, and for all I know, the Envee could pretty much be a CNI black/gold innards in a bigger case/heatsink with some extra features. A true 100mW and a true 125mW (IE a laser that held those levels, which is not possible, but lets just say it is) would be exactly what it sounds like. A 25% increase in power for the 125mW. However lasers are not that simple and you cannot so aptly assign an unqualified number to them. I would guess that in general - powerwise, the two are very close comparisons: visually equal, with little difference in burning but possibly a slight, barely-noticeable advantage to the DL.

Also, though a company like WL could definitely do this, and they simply don't for the $ reasons, keep in mind that for places like the Envee sellers, providing power graphs is not likely possible. The combo of a good, low-end Coherent sensor and meter for the task would run ~$1700 minimum I believe, and setups can easily top $5k. That's for the meter alone too. Some people want to know how well the laser is filtered, or the exact beam specs, but test equipment to accurately test these can easily run upwards of $25k apiece.

 

[ted_park]

I have purchased lasers from lucent, and dragonlasers. The first laser which I purchased was below spec, I returned it, and got one that met specifications. At the time, lucent didn't have a power meter, but they now have a meter, and Gary told me they test them before they go out.

The dragonlasers laser which I purchased had no sticker on it. The unit produced more than 125mw of 532nm light. Perhaps others have had problems, but this unit appears to be fine.

I wonder if some of the problems are due to damage in shipping. Perhaps lasers are sensitive to being dropped 10m into a sorting bin, or being treated to extreme temperatures.

 

[windstrings]

I
The dragonlasers laser which I purchased had no sticker on it. The unit produced more than 125mw of 532nm light. Perhaps others have had problems, but this unit appears to be fine.

My guess is they get through customs easier.... "just my guess"

 

[Hemlock_Mike]

I got my DL 95 and am pleased with it. As more of us get "real" power meters, this crap will have to stop. Vendors will have to meet specs or be called on the carpet here.
My DL came with IIIb sticker and like firearms, safety is MY responsibility.

Mike

 

[timelord]

My DL is well above 125mw it came with no sticker and in a white foam filled box. Dragon lasers told me that on testing my lasers it kicked out 140mw.
I measured it in a local university and it peaked at 140mw and settled down to 135mw - 136mw.

As for stickers DL very kindly sent me some in the post on request

 

[windstrings]

My DL is well above 125mw it came with no sticker and in a white foam filled box. Dragon lasers told me that on testing my lasers it kicked out 140mw.
I measured it in a local university and it peaked at 140mw and settled down to 135mw - 136mw.

As for stickers DL very kindly sent me some in the post on request

Nice!
let us know what all it will do.....

Mine should be here tomorrow.

 

[timelord]

[quote author=Timelord link=1168667984/15#26 date=1169381668]My DL is well above 125mw it came with no sticker and in a white foam filled box. Dragon lasers told me that on testing my lasers it kicked out 140mw.
I measured it in a local university and it peaked at 140mw and settled down to 135mw - 136mw.

As for stickers DL very kindly sent me some in the post on request  

Nice!
 let us know what all it will do.....

Mine should be here tomorrow.[/quote]

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