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FrozenGate by Avery

UK Police using lasers

InfinitusEquitas said:
Here's the small problem: The school in question is a public school, not a private one.
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That's a misconception. Being a public school, doesn't make it public property. It's not a park. If you don't believe me, just go to your nearest public school and start wandering around the premises as you please. I can guarantee you'll be approached by someone fairly quickly and if you don't have any real business there, asked to leave.. and you'll get to deal with law enforcement yourself if you refuse.

I've been doing IT work in various schools for over a decade. So i've seen, and dealt with a lot of how they handle 'people who aren't supposed to be there' over the years.
 





qumefox said:
That's a misconception. Being a public school, doesn't make it public property. It's not a park. If you don't believe me, just go to your nearest public school and start wandering around the premises as you please. I can guarantee you'll be approached by someone fairly quickly and if you don't have any real business there, asked to leave.. and you'll get to deal with law enforcement yourself if you refuse.

I've been doing IT work in various schools for over a decade. So i've seen, and dealt with a lot of how they handle 'people who aren't supposed to be there' over the years.
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In a way that is correct, however the people who got maced were not unknown, and were students at the school.

Also bear in mind that while what you say is true regarding elementary, middle and high schools, it is not for universities.

The area in question here was publicly accessible. It was not cordoned off in any way.

I also spent some time in one of my past jobs going to schools to give lectures... some schools are VERY security conscious, others not so much, but if you're dealing with universities, in general, any area OUTSIDE of a building is considered public, not private or restricted property.

Lastly... as I said, this is the minor issue to me, and if you wan't I'll concede it, but you must admit, the amount of force on display, and it's use was ridiculously disproportionate to the situation.
 
'Disproportionate' depends on viewpoint. You don't know what the law enforcement was told when they were called. For all anyone knows, they were told 'student riots' and came prepared accordingly.

Though I can say the pepper spray was the 'lightest' force they had beyond just grabbing people and dragging them off.. which likely would have made things even worse and escalated things even more.

The only other non-lethal option based on what I see in the pictures were the paintball guns.. which likely were loaded with rubber balls.. I used to play paintball. Trust me paintballs at 300ft/sec hurt enough. I'd had to be hit with one of the rubber balls.

I still say these people brought it on themselves though. Even from the article. It says they were warned repeatedly before the pepper spray was used. They had their chance to get up and move.
 
qumefox said:
Though I can say the pepper spray was the 'lightest' force they had beyond just grabbing people and dragging them off.. which likely would have made things even worse and escalated things even more.
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That's just it. The students were grabbed and dragged off.

Which makes perfect sense. Force was required.

What doesn't make sense is first dumping two huge cans of pepper spray on them first.

As for other options.... what happened to their freaking hands and hand cuffs.

Can that pig not bend down and subdue a 20 year old kid already sitting on the ground?
 
This is a quote from the same guy:

"You've got all these tools on your belt but sometimes they're not the best tools," Pike said.

Of course in that case he was tackling a deranged woman with scissors.

How the F*CK does the same guy to to casually spraying a line of students who were just SITTING?

Btw, at that point, the "reason" for spraying the students was to apparently clear a way for other officers to pass.

The original purpose of the operation was to remove the tents that sprang up on campus.

This goal was already achieved.

Say hello to UC Davis Police Lt. John Pike, the new face of excessive force:
s-JOHN-PIKE-UC-DAVIS-large.jpg


Maybe he just forgot he's not in a war zone, but rather gets paid to PROTECT those students.
 
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qumefox said:
'Disproportionate' depends on viewpoint. You don't know what the law enforcement was told when they were called. For all anyone knows, they were told 'student riots' and came prepared accordingly.

Though I can say the pepper spray was the 'lightest' force they had beyond just grabbing people and dragging them off.. which likely would have made things even worse and escalated things even more.

The only other non-lethal option based on what I see in the pictures were the paintball guns.. which likely were loaded with rubber balls.. I used to play paintball. Trust me paintballs at 300ft/sec hurt enough. I'd had to be hit with one of the rubber balls.

I still say these people brought it on themselves though. Even from the article. It says they were warned repeatedly before the pepper spray was used. They had their chance to get up and move.
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Sieg Heil!
 
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Eye for an Eye leaves the whole world blind! Violence breeds violence. Negotiations before intimidation. There was no need for chemical spraying in the face, these unarmed civilians were willing to be arrested peacefully. We don't even treat our animals that way! If there was a dog loose outside in the park not listening to his "master" are you going to go beat the dog and spray chemicals in the dogs face? Where has this would come to when you got judges, who are suppose to be the epitome of morality and justice, beating the crap outta their daughters for using the internet. >
Or like what happened during the g20 here in Toronto when they arrested over a thousand innocent people, held them in the worst conditions for more than the legal time frame allows and then let most of them go with no charges after suffering humiliation and in many cases injuries for exercising Freedom of Assembly. Mean while the so called "Black Bloc" who were causing destruction and damage, was allowed to parade the streets for more than an hour and a half with no police interference." I am not here to place blame on a specific group. Nor was i there. Critically thinking, there are innocent people caught up on all sides of the mess as will as wrong doers. There are a lot of good regular police officers but there are also bad one who lost their jobs that day for using excessive force. Many were caught covering up their name tags which is illegal and so we must look at the premeditation of unnecessary violence from all sides. >> Heres a good documentary this fellow i met made about the event. It has won awards from different countries
And more unnecessary violence that day >>
 
One common misconception about cops, that I find american media is responsible for, is that everyone thinks cops are overworked, and underpaid.

This is true in some departments.

The reverse is also true for MANY others. This guy for example makes a fairly decent living.

Bear in mind that he also has fantastic health benefits, and a good retirement package.
 
W3AR37A53R5 said:
Eye for an Eye leaves the whole world blind! Violence breeds violence. Negotiations before intimidation. There was no need for chemical spraying in the face, these unarmed civilians were willing to be arrested peacefully. We don't even treat our animals that way! If there was a dog loose outside in the park not listening to his "master" are you going to go beat the dog and spray chemicals in the dogs face? Where has this would come to when you got judges, who are suppose to be the epitome of morality and justice, beating the crap outta their daughters for using the internet. >
Or like what happened during the g20 here in Toronto when they arrested over a thousand innocent people, held them in the worst conditions for more than the legal time frame allows and then let most of them go with no charges after suffering humiliation and in many cases injuries for exercising Freedom of Assembly. Mean while the so called "Black Bloc" who were causing destruction and damage, was allowed to parade the streets for more than an hour and a half with no police interference." I am not here to place blame on a specific group. Nor was i there. Critically thinking, there are innocent people caught up on all sides of the mess as will as wrong doers. There are a lot of good regular police officers but there are also bad one who lost their jobs that day for using excessive force. Many were caught covering up their name tags which is illegal and so we must look at the premeditation of unnecessary violence from all sides. >> Heres a good documentary this fellow i met made about the event. It has won awards from different countries
And more unnecessary violence that day >>
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I checked out the into the fire documentary. Really incredible stuff. Thanks for sharing +1
 
No problem. Thanx, I'm glad at least someone was interested in it because it's not like a movie it really did happen to innocent people
 
W3AR37A53R5 said:
No problem. Thanx, I'm glad at least someone was interested in it because it's not like a movie it really did happen to innocent people
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Just finished watching the Into the Fire documentary. Only planned to watch 10-15 minutes... here I am two hours later.

Unfortunately it's nothing new, and the problem is not a canadian one. The end of the documentary touches on the key point.

Accountability.

Until people at the top are accountable, why is there any expectation that people at the bottom, the cops, the enforcers, will be held responsible?

Sometimes a politician or ceo is made an example of, usually after a major f*ckup on their part. In most cases though it's nothing but a token gesture from a broken system that does not hold anyone in power accountable.

What does happen with alarming regularity is a contrite and apologetic politician/ceo makes a public statement, apologizing, and vowing that it will never happen again.

That is until next time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_Limits_(novel)

One of my favorite books. Shame it's strictly fiction.
 
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