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FrozenGate by Avery

Space Discussion Thread

Geeknhard said:
Let's suppose after the big event from where something came from nothing, the big soup of matter started defining the laws of interaction which govern this universe. I would imagine that life, not as we know it but rather in an abstract sense, developed from the newly defined laws and ordering of interacting matter to be in the form of energy. I would further postulate the energy would manifest itself as electrical, at least initially. Life as electrical energy could then reach its maximum potential for rate of development as the fastest moving object in the universe. Intelligent life as electrical energy would follow a purely logical path. Soon intelligence would move past a point where it would be recognizable to lower life forms. And so goes the history of the universe.
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I strongly disagree. Intelligent life comes from intelligent life. violating that you violate every law in the universe. Systems do not tend toward order, systems left on their own, tend toward chaos.

Basic science/chemistry book quoted below:

"Second Law of Thermodynamics states that all closed systems tend to maximize entropy. Reversing this ever increasing tendency toward disorder requires the input of energy. ... Overall, the entropy of the universe always increases"
 





Life is a trick, advancing into more advanced forms regardless of entropy. We do this though our offspring as they hop forward in small increments as their ancestors fall behind to their inevitable individual demise. The human race is a contest against entropy, so far keeping ahead.
 
icecruncher said:
I strongly disagree. Intelligent life comes from intelligent life. violating that you violate every law in the universe. Systems do not tend toward order, systems left on their own, tend toward chaos.

Basic science/chemistry book quoted below:

"Second Law of Thermodynamics states that all closed systems tend to maximize entropy. Reversing this ever increasing tendency toward disorder requires the input of energy. ... Overall, the entropy of the universe always increases"
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That makes for a good debate i suppose. Then again wormholes are a workaround for the speed of light albeit theoretical. Entropy I think applies to the tangible, objects which have mass. Some forms of life and certainly intelligence may or may not be applicable to the tangible.
 
Sooo.... I’m not a super smart so I’ll probably sound stupid.

I came across an article earlier today saying that scientists estimates about 36 intelligent systems exists in our galaxy.

Isn’t the universe expanding and pretty soon the distances between galaxies will be so great systems will become unable to talk, so there are some things that even going at light speed we’d never see?

That’s scary 🥺

-Alex
 
Hap said:
Sooo.... I’m not a super smart so I’ll probably sound stupid.

I came across an article earlier today saying that scientists estimates about 36 intelligent systems exists in our galaxy.

Isn’t the universe expanding and pretty soon the distances between galaxies will be so great systems will become unable to talk, so there are some things that even going at light speed we’d never see?

That’s scary 🥺

-Alex
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You are exactly correct (excepting your self criticism). One of them being the edge of the universe.
 
Geeknhard said:
You are exactly correct (excepting your self criticism). One of them being the edge of the universe.
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Do you think we will eventually grow into a multi-planet species? We haven’t even setup a moon base.

I also think that space debris around the earth is kinda bad lol.

Do we have enough time to get smarter as a species.

-Alex
 
Hap said:
Do you think we will eventually grow into a multi-planet species? We haven’t even setup a moon base.

I also think that space debris around the earth is kinda bad lol.

Do we have enough time to get smarter as a species.

-Alex
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Alex time is a misconception by most people but in short, if we do not merge and grow then we probably die as a species. 98% off all species that have inhabited the planet Earth are now extinct. At some point when we learn how to overcome many of the hurdles of space travel im sure we will inhabit other planets. Right now we must first figure out the van allen radiation belt. The number 1 reason we probably did not really visit the moon.
 
Hap said:
Sooo.... I’m not a super smart so I’ll probably sound stupid.

I came across an article earlier today saying that scientists estimates about 36 intelligent systems exists in our galaxy.

Isn’t the universe expanding and pretty soon the distances between galaxies will be so great systems will become unable to talk, so there are some things that even going at light speed we’d never see?

That’s scary 🥺

-Alex
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That estimate should be derived from Drake's equation, which is almost full of estimates and assumptions. That equation is rather controversial since anyone can put their own numbers and get their own results.

Also, care must be taken if one wants to learn science, the internet is full of pseudo-science and conspiracy "theories" (even in this thread). To be considered science, you must be able to confirm or disprove your hypothesis (it's not called theory if it is neither disproved nor confirmed).

Last but not least, Kurzgesagt on Youtube presents well-researched, double checked science videos that are rather easy to digest accompanied with very well-made animation.
 
Makes sense to me there is lots of life out there, but we don't know how much of it is technological life or civilizations which can create radios, lasers and means of transportation, much less such which can warp space to get anywhere. That number may be much smaller than we think.

Space is indeed expanding so fast that in time, we will not see the light of distant galaxies, but that time is so far off our civilization will be long gone for many, many billions of years. I don't remember the number of years until that happens, but it was an incredibly long amount of time. I did see a YT video a couple of days ago about how large the universe likely really is, compared to the observable universe. The comparison was if the observable universe were the size of a light bulb, the relative diameter of the earth to a light bulb very well may be the difference between observable, and what is out there. Due to that expansion, we may already beyond the ability to see most of the universe now, the light from other galaxies beyond the observable stretched out into a wave so long we cannot detect it now.

Edit: Here it is:

 
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PS
Keep in mind that entropy is an artificial construct-- entropy is a human invention, which has no physical correlate, can not be measured, and has not been allocated a unit of measure etc.
Entropy was invemted by humans as a tool to help conceptualize what they do not fully comprehend/understand.
 
I really like that YT channel! :)

If faster than light speed is possible I’m sure by then money isn’t a factor in terms of using it since the civilization that far off is mostly well developed.....

But...... as was stated above, I can’t prove this is always the case as very advanced civilizations may have constructed a system where every resource is used very carefully.

How long do you guys think the human race has? I personally give us 100 years if things keep going this way! Lol.

-Alex
 
Hap said:
I really like that YT channel! :)

If faster than light speed is possible I’m sure by then money isn’t a factor in terms of using it since the civilization that far off is mostly well developed.....

But...... as was stated above, I can’t prove this is always the case as very advanced civilizations may have constructed a system where every resource is used very carefully.

How long do you guys think the human race has? I personally give us 100 years if things keep going this way! Lol.

-Alex
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Being able to hurdle one of the largest leaps, fusion reactors would certainly jump start us quite a bit into space. We need a potent fuel source that's compact. We need some form of artificial gravity because our bodies will degrade over time without it and we need powerful ion engines or something similar. Once we have those things I think then space travel will be actually doable for extended periods of time.

EDIT: As far as food and water goes well I think they've tested growing food in space for quite some time now and I believe they already have water filtration systems so that wouldn't be difficult.
 
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Hap said:
I really like that YT channel! :)

If faster than light speed is possible I’m sure by then money isn’t a factor in terms of using it since the civilization that far off is mostly well developed.....

But...... as was stated above, I can’t prove this is always the case as very advanced civilizations may have constructed a system where every resource is used very carefully.

How long do you guys think the human race has? I personally give us 100 years if things keep going this way! Lol.

-Alex
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Our abilities are only limited by our resources. Lets just hope we are able to figure something out before we expend our resources.

Unfortunately the human race is one of the very few species that work out of harmony with nature. Viewed upon by a species of such intelligence that we cannot comprehend, they probably classify us somewhere between a roach and a virus being that we are hard to get rid of even though we destroy and poison our host in the name of advancement. Personally I think dogma will do us in before anything else.
 
So another question.

Do you think Earth was ever meant to have a species living across the world like humans? What about how smart we are?

-Alex
 
Hap said:
So another question.

Do you think Earth was ever meant to have a species living across the world like humans? What about how smart we are?

-Alex
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According to mainstream astrophysics, our universe is around 13.6 billion years old. Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Most multicellular animals appear 500 million years ago. Modern humans appear around 200.000 years ago.
If the entire history of the universe is scaled to one hour, modern humans would only appear in the last fraction of a second (a tiny fraction that is!)

Here is a brief summary of the universe:

And here's one that summarizes the history of modern humans (last 12000 years)

Personally I find it unlikely that the entire universe is created for humans, who happens to appear just a mere moment ago.
 
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