Space Discussion Thread

[CE5]

@Hap & @Benm, and @paul1598419 since a link you posted in This Thread. mentioned the LADEE, mission.
It remains curious to me, that folks here seem to be disinterested, oblivious even, to perhaps one of the most exciting Laser, related developments to come down the pike in a good while. That being the OPALS, mission and the HUGE accomplishment that is totally overlooked by the community here of what also occurred during the LADEE, mission. That being the successful deployment, test and proof of concept for the:
'Lunar Laser Communications Demonstration – For this technology demonstration, LADEE will use lasers (and not radio waves, like other spacecraft that have flown beyond close Earth orbit have used) to communicate with controllers on Earth. This could allow the spacecraft to communicate at broadband speeds with the ground.'

For more on this see the following:

Laser-demonstration-reveals-bright-future-for-space-communication

SCaN

Nasa-interns-name-new-orion-communications-system

Nasa-laser-communications-to-provide-orion-faster-connections

Nasa-taking-first-steps-toward-high-speed-space-internet

Lasers-could-give-space-research-its-broadband-moment

Here is a question for those participating in this thread;
What good is any of the other topics that are being discussed here if they are using technology from the 1920's (radio) to communicate with?

Seriously, peeps here should consider getting with the program.
And this being a forum focused on Lasers, one would think all of this would be a no brainer.
The world is passing you by on the beams of a laser, don't you think it's time to get up to speed and jump onboard?

There are bright young minds that stop by and visit this forum, I feel it would be a great opportunity and honor, to be able to present and have an ongoing 'coherent' discourse that is laser related specifically talking about The Next Big Thing, in space exploration = (SCaN) Space Communications and Navigation, technology using (LEMNOS) Lasers.

~

 

[Benm]

Using optical communication is an improvement, but not a revolutionairy step in expaning how we can explore space.

Light and radio waves are essentially the same, just several magnitudes of frequency/wavelength apart. This means you can focus a beam of light as tightly as a radio beam using a smaller dish/lens. Since you can do it at either end you can do with smaller dishes in space, and smaller ones on earth if the latter is of any concern.

So yes, this is very useful if you want to send a lot of information quickly.

But quickly does not mean you'll get any faster response times or anything like that, it takes a beam of light just as to to reach mars as it does a radio wave. It's essentially broadband internet with a ping time of 20 minutes.

There are some areas where it would help greatly, especially if we explore more distant places like saturn or jupiters moons where path loss is so big transmitting images is annoying slow.

This only aids transmitting large volumes of data. Things like telemetry and control commands are usually -very- compact and the radio link bandwidth is not a problem, it's just the inevitable delay for a radio wave or beam of light to make it there.

An optical link could make it possible to skype with someone on mars in 4k resolution, but there would still be 15 minutes* before you receive their answer to your question, albeit in such detail you can spend that time counting the hairs on their beard in the meantime

* the actual delay depends on plantery alignment, for mars the shortest one-way trip is about 4 minutes and the longest about 24. So when on opposite sides of the sun it would literally take 48 minutes to get an answer to your question asked someone on mars, even if you had a a gigabit laser link.

 

[CE5]

"We were able to download LADEE's entire stored science and spacecraft data [1 gigabyte] in less than five minutes, which was only limited to our 40 Mbps connection to that data within LADEE" said Cornwell. Using LADEE's onboard RADIO system would take SEVERAL DAYS to complete a download of the same stored data. Additionally, LLCD was to prove the integrity of laser technology to send not only error-free data but also uncorrupted commands and telemetry or monitoring messages to and from the spacecraft over the laser link."

 

[CE5]

There was another recent development with the COBALT, program.

And I was just wondering if other folks here find it amusing, just how much the current tech of the SpaceX Falcon9 the Blue Origin Program and the Cobalt Program how they all seem to directly emulate the vertical take off & landing rockets, that were popularized in the SciFi movies etc; of the 1950's?

 

[BowtieGuy]

Now that you mention it, that's what I kept thinking about while I was watching that video. Now all they need are some aliens to "greet" them when they land.
It's amazing how accurately they can be when landing, they put that thing down exactly where it had obviously landed on previous flights.

Great little video, thanks for sharing! :beer:

 

[Rivem]

And I was just wondering if other folks here find it amusing, just how much the current tech of the SpaceX Falcon9 the Blue Origin Program and the Cobalt Program how they all seem to directly emulate the vertical take off & landing rockets, that were popularized in the SciFi movies etc; of the 1950's?

Thanks for sharing CE5! I always enjoy these experimentation videos.

The tech has been around a while, so it's hard to tell if that actually came from sci-fi.

The difference now is that the control systems we have are advanced and quick enough for vertical landings to be done in much larger vehicles under more complicated conditions. Obviously, this opens VTVL for use on Earth with reusable rockets, and that's what SpaceX and Blue Origin are trying for.

It's funny how Spaced is being emulated by Blue Origin, and their relation to old Sci-fi is pretty cool, but COBALT is a bit different.

COBALT seems to be focussing more on navigation systems for autonomous extraterrestrial landings with VTVL rockets. This has been a huge area of research for much longer. It's a very valuable tech in our robotic exploration of the solar system.

 

[CE5]

@BTG, I knew I wasn't the only one And yeah Aliens, hopefully the ones wearing mini-skirts and go-go boots. :beer:

@Rivem, I never get tired of watching this stuff either.
And this clip, was one of the few VTOL's that had the camera giving a nice clear, close-up birdseye view of that mad maneuvering gimbal in action.
Wernher, would be proud.

 

[paul1598419]

Nice. A shout out for Von Braun. Many people don't even know who he was anymore.

 

[Benm]

I doubt his name will ever been forgotten given the incredible contribution to the lunar missions.

Sadly the names of egineers that made most other space endeavours feasible are forgotten, or at least far eclipsed by the names of the people on any manned missions. The names of the first people to reach orbit, or even the first dog that did are widely know, but those of the engineers that made that possible are forgotten. This even applies to unmanned missions like the ones to mars or the voyager probes.

Science history is odd this way: hydrogen bombs are still referred to by their designers Teller and Ulam, but fission bombs that ended WW2 are rarely referred to as Oppenheimer as one of their leading designers.

I'm not sure why this is the case, but it could be such that scientists that designed such a weapon that was actually used smply do not want that to be their legacy.

Then again it's no secret that von Braun was the mind behind the V2 weapon which caused severe devestation in europe.

I suppose he was just interested in building rockets regardless of purpose, and very good at it. During a war effort that means building rockts to kill, during a time of space exploration that means sending people to the moon.

 

[paul1598419]

Von Braun was very adamant about always wanting to do space exploration. Yeah, he was German during the Nazi regime, but his work with rockets were always toward that purpose and not warfare. I guess it was a good thing for him that he was a talented scientist as the Allies were not very forgiving of Germans and because they lost the war, many of them died. I'll bet if you ask many kids who he was, you'll get a lot of blank stares.

 

[CE5]

Nice. A shout out for Von Braun. Many people don't even know who he was anymore.

If you are interested, I do believe the F-1 bits that Bezos had recovered are now on display at Seattle's Museum of Flight.

And @Rivem, if your travels ever take you down around Alamogordo, New Mexico. There is an F-1 on display at the New Mexico Museum of Space History.

And commenting on some historical disconnects, many folks when they hear 'Roswell, New Mexico' think UFO crash. But Roswell, was also where Robert Goddard, accomplished his most significant breakthroughs during the 1930's and this was around the same time period that Wernher Von Braun, was working with Hermann Oberth. And also just how much SciFi, from the earliest days has directly influenced real science. H.G. Wells with Goddard, and Jules Verne with Oberth. Of course the list goes on, and continues right on up through to the present day.

 

[NightExplorer96]

I think the next big step for us is of course landing on another planet(with humans), but in technological terms going to Alpha Centauri. Landing on the Moon gave us so many technological gifts that imagine what'd we get going to the nearest star. Probably like teleportation or something

-Alex

 

[Rivem]

And @Rivem, if your travels ever take you down around Alamogordo, New Mexico. There is an F-1 on display at the New Mexico Museum of Space History.

And commenting on some historical disconnects, many folks when they hear 'Roswell, New Mexico' think UFO crash. But Roswell, was also where Robert Goddard, accomplished his most significant breakthroughs during the 1930's and this was around the same time period that Wernher Von Braun, was working with Hermann Oberth. And also just how much SciFi, from the earliest days has directly influenced real science. H.G. Wells with Goddard, and Jules Verne with Oberth. Of course the list goes on, and continues right on up through to the present day.

Haha. You're right about that CE5. Been there several times. New Mexico really has more history in the sciences than a lot of people think. My family has been in the area for centuries, so I'm lucky to have some of it in their past. The isolation is what brought a lot of government research in the beginning, and it snowballed from there. Lots of cool historical sights. I've gotten to see a few cool things in more restricted places as an intern as well. One thing I'd really like to see when I go back south for school is Spaceport America.

Colorado and New Mexico have both been huge in the rocketry industry for a while, so it's sad to see it slow down over here. It's understandable since we've been tied more directly to weapons than manned spaceflight though. Luckily, project Orion is based out of Denver, and the Spaceport is still clinging on despite the apparent lack of Virgin Galactic success.

Columbia did land once at White Sands near Alamogordo back in the day. White Sands was option #3 for landings throughout the shuttle program.

 

[Benm]

Von Braun was very adamant about always wanting to do space exploration. Yeah, he was German during the Nazi regime, but his work with rockets were always toward that purpose and not warfare. I guess it was a good thing for him that he was a talented scientist as the Allies were not very forgiving of Germans and because they lost the war, many of them died. I'll bet if you ask many kids who he was, you'll get a lot of blank stares.

I suppose it was his dream to actually venture into space, to the moon and beyond.

And perhaps he made good choices there, regardless if the nazi's or allies actually won the war, there would be a space programme of sorts after.

As for asking kids who historical figures were, don't. Von Braun was a notable engineer, but those kids probably have little notion of who people like Alexander the great, Khan or even Napoleon were. lf you have no interest in recent history i suppose that's fine too, you can live your live without knowing.

 

[CE5]

I'm just relocating a convo, that was initiated in another thread, over to this one. Here is the gist of the convo from that other thread* =

"And @ Light superglue, about my location. As a matter of course I monitor various topics on the web, and when I signed up here on LPF, there was some chatter making the rounds on Reddit, 4Chan, and several UFO, Prophecy and Conspiracy sites about an anomaly in the Constellation of Virgo* I entered the coordinates for my location as a beacon of sorts, to see if anyone here would catch it or inquire about it. You are the first to inquire. Sorry there is no prize involved other than for me to offer this explanation, and to also now ask you and others reading this a question. NASA, has been continually imaging pics of this anomaly with it's IRAS Skyview, program.* And when the chatter first started back in 2016, NASA responded by claiming this was something to do with Saturn* but while this may seem plausible, there are others (including myself) that also recognize that the Saturn, explanation also provides a level of 'Plausable Deniability'* So here is the question, after reviewing and doing your own research of the info contained within the links that I just provided above* what do you think this anomaly is?

Hopefully this will be a fun exercise, as that was another one of my reasons for using those coordinates for my location. So here again, I guess the virtual 'prize' is the what do others think or feel this anomaly is? that has and continues to receive ongoing attention not only from the web, but more specifically from NASA itself, as a review of the IRAS image archive reveals."

Again, I've embedded links in that initial convo, simply mouse over the text in that other thread. I'll also just simply list them below. So, what izzit man?

Why is NASA blocking this sector of space? What are they hiding?

https://skyview.gsfc.nasa.gov/userimages/index/2017-06-12_1.html

https://skyview.gsfc.nasa.gov/blog/index.php/2016/05/11/757/

https://hiddeninthecrag.wordpress.com/2017/04/14/smiley-face-in-the-stars/

 

[AaronT]

Likely just an interesting imaging artifact. They happen all the time and spawn all sorts of internet rumors.

I'm more interested in KIC 8462852 It is either a new type of variable star or some type of alien megastructure.