Space Discussion Thread

[NightExplorer96]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

Humans can only live up to a year in zero gravity, or so they say, after that there's too much damage, all your muscles shrink, even your heart shrinks in size. Mars is another matter, plenty of gravity, although I question weather someone born there in the lower gravity could ever visit earth. This for sure is true of the moon, we don't want children born on the moon unless we someday develope the technology for artificial gravity, and I doubt that's going to be here anytime soon.

Alan

The only way we can survive on Mars is to make it habitable. Trying to send supplies back & forth simply isn't going to work, we need a self-sustaining colony. However, with NASA's funding that won't be happening anytime soon.

-Alex

 

[Rivem]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

The only way we can survive on Mars is to make it habitable. Trying to send supplies back & forth simply isn't going to work, we need a self-sustaining colony. However, with NASA's funding that won't be happening anytime soon.

-Alex

There isn't really any guarantee that Mars could be made all that habitable anyway. Most experts say terraforming would be much more complicated than we are commonly led to believe, and we still don't know how much of an issue the gravity would be. It would definitely limit how much air pressure could be created, so the atmosphere would likely never be breathable or safe enough without a suit. On top of that, the radiation risk is pretty high, so it may turn out that colonies would have to be underground unless a new lightweight shielding tech was developed. Getting cancer on Mars would likely be an early death sentence.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

Genetic engineering, and other forms of augmentation would definitely permit for a lot more efficient exploration of space. I'm afraid that those kinds of developments will be stifled due to religious fundamentalist though.

As for mars actually being made habitable, unless something very significant is found on Mars to allow terraofrming, it's not a likely outcome.

 

[NightExplorer96]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

As for mars actually being made habitable, unless something very significant is found on Mars to allow terraofrming, it's not a likely outcome.

That would be one of mankinds greatest achievements to completely transform an alien planet! We also need to take into account possible viruses contaminating Mars surface, no?

-Alex

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

Viruses/bacteria probably won't be a big problem where a mostly barren rock like Mars is concerned, but anything is possible.

 

[Rivem]

Re: Interstellar Space Travel

That would be one of mankinds greatest achievements to completely transform an alien planet! We also need to take into account possible viruses contaminating Mars surface, no?

-Alex

I think it's more reasonable to assume terraforming Mars is almost practically impossible. Really, making the whole planet livable would require an artificial magnetosphere and either regular importation of atmospheric gases, a bubble around the planet, or gravity modification. A method to collect more solar energy than on the surface might also be necessary.

Viruses and bacteria likely wouldn't be too big of a risk, but research would be warranted before doing such a project.

Venus might be a better bet if we could find a way to sequester and filter most of the atmosphere, but that's no simple task either.

Other than those two, terraforming any other body in the solar system isn't even worth considering since Mercury is too close to the Sun, and anything past the asteroid belt won't get enough sunlight to support an Earth-like environment.

Like I said in the beginning of the thread, we probably can't expect large space colonies without interstellar space travel.

 

[ThePhotonist]

I agree with Rivem on large-scale colonization not happening until interstellar travel is a possibility. I think we should be doing more research into FTL technology and less on terraforming planets. If you could travel faster than light, all of a sudden hundreds of potentially habitable planets become available to us, and colonization would be a much easier effort. I would love to see more work being done in that field.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Has there been any evidence of any particles traveling faster than light, that we are aware of at this time? I remember reading about a 2012 experiment where one wave is forced within another or something like, that, and about quantum entanglement.

The reason I bring this up, is we keep fixating on the need to travel there, but there is no need if we can send drone avatars out to explore space instead.

Terraforming is also way beyond our technical means, I mean crap we can't even get it right on our own planet yet

 

[NightExplorer96]

Has there been any evidence of any particles traveling faster than light, that we are aware of at this time? I remember reading about a 2012 experiment where one wave is forced within another or something like, that, and about quantum entanglement.

The reason I bring this up, is we keep fixating on the need to travel there, but there is no need if we can send drone avatars out to explore space instead.

Terraforming is also way beyond our technical means, I mean crap we can't even get it right on our own planet yet

Well we really need to get faster!!! Voyager 1 which was launched in the 1970's and used Jupiters gravity took 40 years to get to Pluto, that's nothing when compared to the whole of space!

-Alex

 

[diachi]

Has there been any evidence of any particles traveling faster than light, that we are aware of at this time? I remember reading about a 2012 experiment where one wave is forced within another or something like, that, and about quantum entanglement.

The reason I bring this up, is we keep fixating on the need to travel there, but there is no need if we can send drone avatars out to explore space instead.

Terraforming is also way beyond our technical means, I mean crap we can't even get it right on our own planet yet

No FTL particles have been found that I'm aware of - there is the theoretical "Tachyon". There was that neutrino experiment a few years back that at first appeared to have found FTL neutrinos, but that ended up being the result of an equipment fault or some such.

Nothing in travels FTL with Quantum entanglement, not the particle, not the information. It's kinda silly that they use the word "teleportation" at all. I prefer "spooky action at a distance".

Well we really need to get faster!!! Voyager 1 which was launched in the 1970's and used Jupiters gravity took 40 years to get to Pluto, that's nothing when compared to the whole of space!

-Alex

Voyager only took 12.5 years to travel the distance to Pluto - but didn't actually fly past. New Horizons managed it in ~9 years. Both Voyagers are well past Pluto now.


Voyager I is now ~20,094,400,000KM from earth after ~40 years - ~37 light hours round trip - currently travelling at 62,140Km/h - EDIT: Sorry, that was the max speed, but I don't imagine it slowed down much if any.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I'm always surprised by how willing people are to embrace the idea of Star Trek style teleportation. Except that there so many hurdles, and ethical issues associated with it, some even explored in Star Trek.

The way Star Trek teleporters work is to deconstruct the very atoms of our bodies, convert them to pure energy, and data, and transmit THAT to another location to in many cases spontaneously be reconstructed at a distance somehow. Alternatively only the data is transmitted and you're reconstituted from matter/energy at the destination.

In both cases :wtf: You're literally signing up to die each time. Makes spooky action at a distance look like a far more pleasant alternative.

 

[diachi]

I'm always surprised by how willing people are to embrace the idea of Star Trek style teleportation. Except that there so many hurdles, and ethical issues associated with it, some even explored in Star Trek.

The way Star Trek teleporters work is to deconstruct the very atoms of our bodies, convert them to pure energy, and data, and transmit THAT to another location to in many cases spontaneously be reconstructed at a distance somehow. Alternatively only the data is transmitted and you're reconstituted from matter/energy at the destination.

In both cases :wtf: You're literally signing up to die each time. Makes spooky action at a distance look like a far more pleasant alternative.

Ahh, but we don't know that for sure, and if we invented transporters like that we'd probably still have a hard time figuring it out - unless we develop a far better understanding of consciousness. Transporters in the Star Trek universe take into account information about the matter on a quantum level too as far as I know - perhaps that'd make all the difference when it comes to consciousness. It's still far beyond our current scientific understanding either way.

The person that shows up on the other end would be you as far as that person is concerned - with all your memories and thoughts, and to everyone else there would be no difference either. But would it really be you or would it just be a copy of you - would you die on the transporter or would you "wake up" at the destination? Impossible to say.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

But would it really be you or would it just be a copy of you - would you die on the transporter or would you "wake up" at the destination? Impossible to say.

That's exactly the thing that kept me awake for hours after watching StarTrek TNG for the first time.

It doesn't help that in that universe there were cases of transporter replication, and of people being merged. For example, a clone of Riker was accidentally created, and was a fully functional being with all the same knowledge and abilities.

I guess the reason I keep circling back to this, is the idea of using a teleportation system seems crazy to me, but the idea of being present in another location by means of some kind of interface, completely acceptable, and preferable. Even now, surgeries are already being performed remotely.

 

[Rivem]

No FTL particles have been found that I'm aware of - there is the theoretical "Tachyon". There was that neutrino experiment a few years back that at first appeared to have found FTL neutrinos, but that ended up being the result of an equipment fault or some such.

Nothing in travels FTL with Quantum entanglement, not the particle, not the information. It's kinda silly that they use the word "teleportation" at all. I prefer "spooky action at a distance".

Tachyon and whether or not entanglement can carry data are some seriously controversial subjects. Every physics professor I've spoken to says probably no tachyons and entanglement almost definitely can't be used like that, so you're right on track.

Not that quantum physics is already completely useless for FTL research, but our knowledge of it isn't mature enough to tell yet. String theory isn't there yet either.

Relativity is what we should be looking at for now. It may expand into particle physics and string theory further along in the investigation though.

 

[diachi]

That's exactly the thing that kept me awake for hours after watching StarTrek TNG for the first time.

It doesn't help that in that universe there were cases of transporter replication, and of people being merged. For example, a clone of Riker was accidentally created, and was a fully functional being with all the same knowledge and abilities.

I guess the reason I keep circling back to this, is the idea of using a teleportation system seems crazy to me, but the idea of being present in another location by means of some kind of interface, completely acceptable, and preferable. Even now, surgeries are already being performed remotely.

I have exactly the same problem and have thought of the same example you provided with Will Riker and Thomas Riker- it's difficult to wrap your head around. Of course it's all fiction, but it's an interesting "thought experiment".

Oddly enough, I actually read a discussion about that exact episode the other day on /r/DaystromInstitute/ - think it was this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromIn...econd_chances_where_did_the_matter_to_create/

I like the remote idea better too - good suggestion - I don't think I'd ever be up for using a transporter (Much like several characters in Star Trek, Dr. Pulaski comes to mind!) - the thought that it'd kill me and create a copy would always be in the back of my mind.

Tachyon and whether or not entanglement can carry data are some seriously controversial subjects. Every physics professor I've spoken to says probably no tachyons and entanglement almost definitely can't be used like that, so you're right on track.

Not that quantum physics is already completely useless for FTL research, but our knowledge of it isn't mature enough to tell yet. String theory isn't there yet either.

Relativity is what we should be looking at for now. It may expand into particle physics and string theory further along in the investigation though.

Yep, as far as we understand entanglement can't carry data - at least not FTL - and tachyons are still theoretical at best. There are plenty of things that were thought impossible right up until we actually did the experiment and proved otherwise though, plenty of times throughout history people have been considered crazy for their theories - until we developed a better understanding and realized that something we thought was impossible as actually entirely possible. It's happened even in the last century - pretty sure it even happened with relativity.

We've barely scratched the surface of what physics has to offer us as far as I'm concerned. Our current knowledge is likely just a drop in the ocean. Every question answered tends to raise more questions.

 

[NightExplorer96]

No FTL particles have been found that I'm aware of - there is the theoretical "Tachyon". There was that neutrino experiment a few years back that at first appeared to have found FTL neutrinos, but that ended up being the result of an equipment fault or some such.

Nothing in travels FTL with Quantum entanglement, not the particle, not the information. It's kinda silly that they use the word "teleportation" at all. I prefer "spooky action at a distance".



Voyager only took 12.5 years to travel the distance to Pluto - but didn't actually fly past. New Horizons managed it in ~9 years. Both Voyagers are well past Pluto now.


Voyager I is now ~20,094,400,000KM from earth after ~40 years - ~37 light hours round trip - currently travelling at 62,140Km/h - EDIT: Sorry, that was the max speed, but I don't imagine it slowed down much if any.

9 years sorry

-Alex