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FrozenGate by Avery

Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

VisibleGreen said:
Well firstly a knife is extremely dangerous in a fight. Not sure why you said it isn't. Secondly with the suggestion, a strobe flashlight is very easy to get a hold of. PM me if you want some suggestions. That would be better than a laser. A laser has no added benefit in a fight. I don't get why you're still focusing on it.
The usual stuff like tazers, pepper spray, bright flashlights and heck even hand thrown bolas are good enough. If you want something crazy why not a paintball gun :D
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All good points from everyone.....but I'm calling VisibleGreen out for failing to read my thread starter post. I have all of the above and then some :) Just in case anyone missed it the first time around, aside from my carry permit and a variety of firearms, I also have
plenty of less-than-lethal "options" as well. Here's the short list:

Taser X26 (legal for civilian to own and carry with FID Card in my state)
Tiberius Arms Tac 8 (w/Pepperball Kit) not legal for me to carry
Various Pepper Sprays, up to 1lb can of Bear Spray and 9oz can PepperGEL
JPX Jet Protector (A Tazer substitute, fires pepper spray 20' @ 400mph)
Lots of high power, quality flashlights including my favorite, the
Surefire UB3T Invictus (1000 lumens and strobe mode)-will mess you up!
I also have firearms in the home, I tend to lean towards my Remington 870 short barrel and have a variety of ammo including these special rounds Multiple Impact Ammunition Which if you haven't seen...you have to check it out...uber cool!
 





I also want to reiterate that if this thread is making people uncomfortable, or if it strays to far towards topics we really should avoid, I encourage the admins to delete the thread. The last thing I want to do is bring any negative attention to our hobby which I fear is already on thin ice....
 
I'd say, don't do it, unless you have no other nonlethal weapons or lethal ones to threaten with, and you genuinely fear for your immediate physical safety or that of another innocent. basically, a last resort. even then you may need to defend your use of it in court. may this never happen
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This.

I can tell you from first hand experience retrofitting projectors that a defocused 2watt 445 at a distance of 30feet is more than enough to cause you to turn away instantly and rub your eyes in pain. My 10watt Luxeon M's LEDs in polished reflectors are a bit worse. I also recall vividly being hit in the eyes with pepper spray when I was a kid - my buddy's dad was a mailman and we were screwing around with his gear and things happen.

That being said, while a defocused multi watt laser can do duty as a non lethal deterrent I would never bother with such. Non lethal deterrents used for crowd control are in an entirely different realm than personal defense. With the former, you typically know what you are dealing with and have tactical knowledge of what you might be facing.

With personal defense you have *no* idea what you are facing nor the intents or vigour of who is attacking you. All the attacker has to do is shield their eyes and keep coming at you. I'd rather have the pepper spray or mace than laser pointer anyways, and that's a weak choice at best.
 
You might do okay if you had a phaser you know? From the 24th century.
 
Actually, the current incarnation of a 'phaser' might be the Active Denial System or 'ADS' the military was working on.

Just focus 100k watts of 1mm wave energy at an area and watch people scatter. It's an interesting read if you look it up on Wiki, and a bit scary because it's already been tested in the field.
 
crashmidget said:
All good points from everyone.....but I'm calling VisibleGreen out for failing to read my thread starter post. I have all of the above and then some :) Just in case anyone missed it the first time around, aside from my carry permit and a variety of firearms, I also have
plenty of less-than-lethal "options" as well. Here's the short list:

Taser X26 (legal for civilian to own and carry with FID Card in my state)
Tiberius Arms Tac 8 (w/Pepperball Kit) not legal for me to carry
Various Pepper Sprays, up to 1lb can of Bear Spray and 9oz can PepperGEL
JPX Jet Protector (A Tazer substitute, fires pepper spray 20' @ 400mph)
Lots of high power, quality flashlights including my favorite, the
Surefire UB3T Invictus (1000 lumens and strobe mode)-will mess you up!
I also have firearms in the home, I tend to lean towards my Remington 870 short barrel and have a variety of ammo including these special rounds Multiple Impact Ammunition Which if you haven't seen...you have to check it out...uber cool!
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Excuse me but I did read it I just skimmed the list of legal and ILLEGAL stuff you own.
TBH I'm not interested in your weapon stash but rather about your attention to adding lasers to it. :undecided:
 
Visible Green..... sorry I didn't mean to insult you. All of my less-than-lethal weapons
are legal for me to own, and some are legal for me to carry. The Tiberius Tac 8 Pepperball gun for example is not legal for me to carry, but it is legal to own on my own property.

As for adding lasers, I am always interested in more lasers. Lately, I have been very interested in IR lasers since I own a set of PVS 7 Gen 3 night vision goggles. I could easily buy an IR illuminator, but that's no fun. I want to make my own. I'm trying to decide what the best way to go is, floodlight or spotlight? Maybe a combination of the 2?
Not sure how much power I will need and have no idea what optics will serve me best. Since my goggles don't have a magnification factor (although I could add a lens) I don't really need to be able to illuminate at long distances. I have experimented a bit with some thrown together IR leds and one problem is whether or not I'm inside or out. If I use enough illumination to get a nice range outside, when I come inside it's often way to bright... As for an IR laser, I have never had one, so I don't know how it would be. Maybe just a 100mw defocused would do the trick?
 
IR lasers as a NV illuminator has been
discussed before. At best you will get a
narrow bar of light too intense for a gen 3
to deal with and a nearly invisible eye
hazard. LED is really the best way. If it
is too intense indoors, then dimming or a
separate low power LED should do the trick.
 
I'm not sure how likely of happening a scenario would be for a laser to be effective and possibly blinding a person permanently would be justified. Obviously if a person is being harmed they have a right to defend themselves with an appropriate response but how you are describing the attractive application of a high powered laser is more from a distance. Like a deterrent. If it wasn't a very unfocused spread out beam but a blinding one to justify permanently taking a persons most important sense, sight, the attack would have to already begun or at least known to be immanent. And considering the massive risk of the victim blinding themselves from close quarter combat with a laser the victim would have to have gotten enough distance from the attacker to safely turn on a laser and point it. Wouldn't you as a self defense person advise them to keep running, scream fire and raise as much ruckus as possible? Not make a stand with a futuristic weapon?


I think it is a bad idea and pepper spray or strobes are a much more effective, proven, and temporary solution. The reports I have read about people that have had pretty nasty eye burns from lasers is that it never hurt. Its painless and you just see spots. I doubt an attacker all jacked up on adrenaline is going to run away because they are seeing spots. They don't know that they will be seeing the spots for ever at the time.
In fact take a woman lets say, one who knows that if she uses this laser the person will be forever blind she would probably not use it at all or at least not in time to stop an attack but she would be much more likely to spray a person with pepper spray. Even if she is unsure she would be more apt to use it and ensure her personal safety knowing its not going to permanently injure a person. If she was wrong she can feel bad and apologize but nobody is going to need a seeing eye dog if that's the case.
 
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I kinda think if someone lased me at a distance to where I could still see, I'd shield my eyes and go kick their butt, at least, would realllly want to.
 
crashmidget said:
Visible Green..... sorry I didn't mean to insult you. All of my less-than-lethal weapons
are legal for me to own, and some are legal for me to carry. The Tiberius Tac 8 Pepperball gun for example is not legal for me to carry, but it is legal to own on my own property.

As for adding lasers, I am always interested in more lasers. Lately, I have been very interested in IR lasers since I own a set of PVS 7 Gen 3 night vision goggles. I could easily buy an IR illuminator, but that's no fun. I want to make my own. I'm trying to decide what the best way to go is, floodlight or spotlight? Maybe a combination of the 2?
Not sure how much power I will need and have no idea what optics will serve me best. Since my goggles don't have a magnification factor (although I could add a lens) I don't really need to be able to illuminate at long distances. I have experimented a bit with some thrown together IR leds and one problem is whether or not I'm inside or out. If I use enough illumination to get a nice range outside, when I come inside it's often way to bright... As for an IR laser, I have never had one, so I don't know how it would be. Maybe just a 100mw defocused would do the trick?
Click to expand...

It's ok don't worry about it :)

Why not start with 50mw unfocused. Just use a regular glass lens from aixiz. Anyone know what that flashlight lens attachment from wicked lasers is called? That would be great for output.
 
Again , all good points. In my rather extensive experience with less-than-lethal alternatives to firearms, chemical sprays are really undesirable. I have used them on many occasions for "testing" purposes, never in actual defense, and have been properly sprayed by the police while being arrested. I will say this, when I was sprayed, it was horrible. The only time I have ever feared for my life was when I got a healthy dose of OC spray from the police. It's not your eyes that hurt, that comes later. The first thing for me was instantaneous projectile vomiting over and over again. The problem is, after a few times, you're out of oxygen and your body is screaming to take a breath while being forced to continue to vomit. I swore I was going to suffocate. After what seemed like a long time, but was probably a minute or two, I stopped vomiting, and then the eyes started to burn. That hurt, but I didn't seem to mind too much. The problem is that the chemical is activated by moisture, so for the next 24 hours or so, my eyes kept getting a little tear in the corner, then the whole burning eyes would start again...and the snot running out of my nose left a puddle on the floor. After a few minutes it would subside, only to repeat the whole ordeal again a few minutes later. There's no question that chemical sprays work, my problem with them is that they are difficult to deploy without getting caught in it yourself. When the police spayed me, they had already subdued and handcuffed me, I was face down on the ground, handcuffed behind my back and motionless. They were able to very precisely put the can directly in front of my face, and sprayed each eye individually. I reality, a person defending themselves doesn't have a perfectly still and restrained person to carefully and closely deliver a precise squirt. In my tests, the chemical tends to get into the air all around you and it's very irritating. The wind can also be a huge factor that you can't account for, it is what it is at the moment you need to use the spray. Using it inside would be unthinkable. As this thread continues, I am leaning more and more towards a very powerful strobe light. If it can be small enough to fit comfortably in my pocket, and deliver the kind of blinding disorienting light that my Surefire UB3T can, I think that would be an ideal less-than-lethal deterrent. Now, my Surefire puts out something like 1200 lumens....actual lumens, not the eBay 2000 lumen $25 dollar lights. Surefire knows their stuff and gives accurate numbers. The size is the problem for me. I haven't seen a similarly powerful light in a pocketable size. I think the solution may be in the run time. Powerful flashlights are meant to give reasonable runtimes, at least an hour or two. But if it only had to run for 5 or 10 minutes, it might be possible to miniaturize such a powerful flashlight. The only problem there however is heat buildup. I'm not sure how you could deal with the heat at a pocketable size? Might have to be made out of a pound of pure silver?
 
IF a police officer did that to me or one of my loved ones, there would come a time where I would catch up with them off duty, probably years later, but it would come and I'd return the favor they did to my own.
 
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@crashmidget do your Tab, Shift and Enter Buttons work good? haha
I Keep Reading Same lines.... lol
 
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