READ AND HEED--this will effect all.(edit-OR maybe not at all)

[chipdouglas]

its only a proposal-- and maybe not one that is do-able.
I still say we all need to do as much as possible to lower the number of incidents, as I dont see anyone else willing to do much in the way of prevention.

I, for one, would welcome some form of permit to own lasers. That way anyone having no permit could lose thier laser , at least until they applied for one and demonstrated thier knowledge in safe laser use.
^^^
The above was also added to my OP but felt having it said here too was more important than breaking the double posting rule--
len

we can never lower the number incidents. it is not LPF members doing this. this proposal wouldnt affect the diyers. I mildly agree with the tax.

You don't hear news reports about yellow lasers hitting helis or planes.

michael.

 

[chipdouglas]

^^^Agreed. I wouldn't mind taking a short test, and paying for a permit, if it also offered some level of protection from overzealous cops.

As far as preventing incidents, the only effective approach to getting people to do the right thing, is unfortunately the threat of severe consequences.

The 11k faa fine is a nice start IMO. Some mandatory prison time wouldn't be a bad idea either.

you cant lock up a 13 year old for shining a laser.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

you cant lock up a 13 year old for shining a laser.

Of course not, he is not legally responsible for his actions, his parents are.

So an 11k fine, and probation would probably be enough.

 

[chipdouglas]

^^^^ whoomp there it is!!

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

^^^^ whoomp there it is!!

LMAO! If you mean the root cause of MANY problems... yup.

 

[Mo13]

That's just scary. I wonder if U.S. customs would crack down on importing with the introduction of the tax.

 

[pmurph5]

A few notes about the Laser Safety Tax idea from me, the private citizen who suggested it.

It is designed as an idea for discussion. I have no power to impose this. In fact, I don't believe we need laser bans or restrictions at this time. (Various groups like CDRH, pilots, FAA and laser sellers have not yet done all they can to try to inform the public and better protect pilots.)

But, what if tomorrow there is an accident or crash that causes U.S. legislators to do like so many other countries have done, and ban laser pointer possession and use? If this happens, does the laser enthusiast community just take whatever politicians give them, or will the community have some constructive proposals?

For reasons discussed on my webpage, I believe a Laser Safety Tax deserves consideration. It is designed to have minimal impact on responsible hobbyists, the kind who can make their own devices from (untaxed) components. For enthusiasts wanting pre-made lasers -- yes, the cost is higher, but at least the lasers would still be legal for possession and use. The main group this impacts is the general public. They would be much less likely to purchase lasers, especially higher-power ones.

Sure, there could be other methods like licensing or permits. Notice that on the Laser Safety Tax page, I give space to someone who disagrees with the tax and prefers firearm-like regulation. That's fine, let's have a constructive discussion.

A few other comments:

Regarding overseas manufacturers getting around the tax: Yes, that could happen. But it could also happen under permits, licensing, or other restrictions. We are not talking about having to have 100% success. No law is perfect (e.g., interstate cigarette smuggling to avoid heavy taxes in certain states; moonshiners; illegal drugs). Our goal is to cut down availability to the general public who see lasers as impulse-buy toys.

Regarding the effectiveness of prosecutions: Publicizing arrests is being done, and I believe is working to a degree, but at current rates it would take at least one more year to see an actual drop in incidents, and it would take many years (5? 10?) to get the rate down to pre-2004 levels. In other words, it is working but very slowly. So we need a backup plan in case the number of incidents does not drop fast enough to satisfy pilots, FAA, legislators and others who might support a ban (or in case there is an accident that causes public outcry).

My purpose with the Laser Safety Tax page is to get some ideas out, so if there is a sudden problem, these can be (hopefully!) considered by legislators. The purpose is NOT to say that we need to impose a tax or restrictions now.

If any person reading this has their own well-thought-out constructive proposal, I will add it to the Laser Safety Tax page.

-- Patrick Murphy, writing as a private citizen and not for any laser organization

PS: This has nothing to do with display lasers vs. pointers, or with PL vs. LPF. The problem is not with laser light shows, and it is not with laser hobbyists & experimenters. The problem is with the general public. There are just too many people who don't understand the hazards (or who don't care), and it is too easy for them to get relatively high-powered lasers.

 

[sopark4000]

HAHAHAHAHA this article proposes a $5 per mW tax. So a 1,200mW rifle from lazerer would cost over $6,000. This right here is why I don't support that website (laserpointersafety.com).
Either way it would never work. All the handhelds over 5mW are already flying under the radar into the US anyway.


EDIT- This is just another case of infringing upon the rights of the many because of the actions of the few.
It's the same as the gun debate. A couple of idiots do something stupid and then the rest of us are punished along with them. I'll tell you what would happen. Responsible hobbyists would be the only ones to pay the tax thus punishing the people who are already responsible laser users, while the morons would continue to order them online as they always have.


Heres a real example
If you take the dollar value of all the drugs and assets that the DEA seizes each year and the estimated value of all the drugs that are brought into the US each year that the DEA doesn't get then you will see that the DEA is literally less than 1% effective at there job. The DEA seizes less than 1% of all drugs and assets associated with them while the other 99% gets through.
So with that in mind do you really think lasers would be any different. Prohibition of something people want wether it's drugs, guns or lasers is rarely effective.

I wouldn't mind a permit system but the permit system is often abused to make it impossible for people to acquire things. For example the firearm permit laws of New York City make it basically impossible to own a gun in the city. The only people who have any chance of getting a permit in NYC are the ultra rich for example donald trump has a permit. If my sister who lives in the city applied for a permit she would be turned down immediately despite the fact that she is an upstanding citizen and a lawyer with no criminal record. The permit system is just too often abused effectively resulting in a ban.

 

[HIMNL9]

Sorry if this can feel "rude", but new taxes are the most stupid system for try to "solve" a problem, ANY problem.

And trust me, i know what i'm saying ..... i'm Italian, and this is one of the countries that have the higher "pro-capite" tax rate in the world (still increasing ), and our "problems", instead lower, are still here and increasing

 

[sopark4000]

Sorry if this can feel "rude", but new taxes are the most stupid system for try to "solve" a problem, ANY problem.

And trust me, i know what i'm saying ..... i'm Italian, and this is one of the countries that have the higher "pro-capite" tax rate in the world (still increasing ), and our "problems", instead lower, are still here and increasing

Exactly. In NYC the taxes for cigarettes have resulted in the price for a single pack being up to $13. Result- People smuggle untaxed cigarettes from the south and they make a huge profit selling them for 9-10$ a pack.

 

[BShanahan14rulz]

I heard that this thread was started months ago. :can:

If all it does is spark discussion and debate, then at least it's getting some publicity and letting people know that just because you own a laser doesn't mean you are a dumbass. We too want fewer incidents, an the best place to start is discussion.