Problem with LOC, AMC7135 and 2xaaa

[Eudaimonium]

Why ? i don't see any problem typing Jakupec Zdrva ..... Zdarv ..... Zadrkv .... Zdwrngbly .... ok, nevermind, Eudaimonium is more easy :crackup:

(Just Kidding, ofcourse )



BTW, you can find LM1117 in SMD packages, both the TO252 and the SOT223 ones on ebay, here and there (i usually buy them there too, cause here in Italy the distribution is simply a damn crap mess )

HAHA LOL I mean, just type : JZ, not entire name
SOT packages are smaller ones correct? I prefer those, since it would be a problem designing PCB for other ones (bigger) since I don't have any double sided PCBs yet.
But yeah same package for LM317, LM1117 and forementioned AMC7135...

 

[HIMNL9]

Yes, they are the smallest ones ..... SOT223, anyway, hold only 800mA, when instead the other ones hold until 1500 mA, so if you need a high current, is better the other package.

 

[Eudaimonium]

Yes, they are the smallest ones ..... SOT223, anyway, hold only 800mA, when instead the other ones hold until 1500 mA, so if you need a high current, is better the other package.

Well actually these SOT 223 CAN output 1.5 A... checked this when ordereing them, I remember precisely, same package you can choose a 800mA and 1.5 A variant, I insisted on 1.5A. (assuming you have proper heatsinking for that small chip)

 

[spectral532]

I don't want to buy these batteries again if they can not give 350mA.
If anyone has these batteries please let me know if they can give 350mA current.
And of course... 3x10440 give almost 13V when fully charged.

LM317 is available in SOT-223 packing.
I don't know if Eudaimonium has more SMD lm317 and PCBs...he sent me driver as a gift.
(Thanks Eudaimonium)

Hey ReNNo,

I just recently found this thread which may answer some questions you have about the 10440 batteries. To summarize, 350ma though a AMC7135 and LOC with 2x10440s should be no problem.

Additionally, Jayrob advertises a 10440 build which can supposedly power a red diode with a single 10440 (with a flexdrive of course). In his thread he recommends using these batteries from DealExtreme. You might try asking him how much current these batteries can output.

Again, I myself have never had any experience with 10440 batteries. But these threads seem to indicate that powering a red with 2x10440 is not impossible. And honestly, they should have worked fine with your PHR. Maybe you just got a bad set of 10440s?

@Eudaimonium - Where did you buy the PCBs? Or did you make them yourself?

 

[LarryDFW]

Again, I myself have never had any experience with 10440 batteries. But these threads seem to indicate that powering a red with 2x10440 is not impossible. And honestly, they should have worked fine with your PHR. Maybe you just got a bad set of 10440s?

A lot of those chinese lithium batteries just don't deliver the power they claim.

I have used two quality #14500 lithiums with plenty of power to drive a PHR diode.

LarryDFW

P.S. I have found plenty of SMD LM1117 regulators on the PCB's of drives I have taken apart. They usually just have "117" or "1117" on them.

 

[HIMNL9]

Well actually these SOT 223 CAN output 1.5 A... checked this when ordereing them, I remember precisely, same package you can choose a 800mA and 1.5 A variant, I insisted on 1.5A. (assuming you have proper heatsinking for that small chip)

Yes, there is a new version with this limit, but you have to take in consideration also other things, when you build a driver ..... the thermal exchange rate of these cases is lower of the others, and the thermal resistance (junctio-to-case and junction-to-air) is bigger ..... this and the fact that, usually, we use these drivers in closed places, like aixiz modules, cause that they become very hot and go in thermal shutdown more quick and easily than other models, in high current conditions (this is the main reason for which i always dip my drivers in thermal silicone, when i mount them in modules ..... so they can dissipate better with the module can) ..... and also when used in open air, there's always more risk that you end with a burned chip, in some conditions .....

Basically, until 350 or 400 mA, i use them, but when i need 600 or more, i use the TO252 case, i have both of them.

And for open mounts where the space is not a problem, TO220 is the best, so if needed can hook a heatsink too

P.S. I have found plenty of SMD LM1117 regulators on the PCB's of drives I have taken apart. They usually just have "117" on them.

Uhm, no, sorry ..... all my SOT223 have clearly "1117M3" printed on them ..... probably you have the LM117 (one "1" less), that is the same type of regulator, but not low dropout (2.5V instead 1.2, usually)

 

[spectral532]

P.S. I have found plenty of SMD LM1117 regulators on the PCB's of drives I have taken apart. They usually just have "117" on them.

What kind of "drive" did you take apart (Hard drive, DVD drive)?

 

[ReNNo]

Hey ReNNO,

I just recently found this thread which may answer some questions you have about the 10440 batteries. To summarize, 350ma though a AMC7135 and LOC with 2x10440s should be no problem.

Additionally, Jayrob advertises a 10440 build which can supposedly power a red diode with a single 10440 (with a flexdrive of course). In his thread he recommends using these batteries from DealExtreme. You might try asking him how much current these batteries can output.

Again, I myself have never had any experience with 10440 batteries. But these threads seem to indicate that powering a red with 2x10440 is not impossible. And honestly, they should have worked fine with your PHR. Maybe you just got a bad set of 10440s?

@Eudaimonium - Where did you buy the PCBs? Or did you make them yourself?

Just I sec...
You say that I can power up AMC with 8.4V?
As i know recommended voltage for AMC is about 3.6-4.5V.
If I give 8.4V to AMC, what will be output voltage to the diode?

I'll contact jayrob and ask him about batteries.

 

[Eudaimonium]

...
@Eudaimonium - Where did you buy the PCBs? Or did you make them yourself?

I make them myself ofcourse, they are farly simple design for fitting a SOT223 and resistor and a capactor into a aixiz module...
Hold on lemme find a pic of that...

There ya go!
Here is the layout of PCB itself drawn in paint for ya:

I had to draw it upside down, because of that picture... so that they match... get it?

BTW Hey ReNNo, take some pics of that PCB's I sent ya, would you? Thanks!
I'm unable to do so, since I'm in a dormitory (my school is far away from my home), and won't be home 'till 23th dec!
Thanx all for understaning!

P.S. in that pic, there is 12 ohm resistor between out and adj pind (soldered directly on them), for 100 mA, for PHR bluray diode, not for red. But works either way.

...

LarryDFW

P.S. I have found plenty of SMD LM1117 regulators on the PCB's of drives I have taken apart. They usually just have "117" on them.

OOY, sorry to burst your bubble ... But I agree with HIMNL9 here,
you see, there are 117 regulators (old ones) and 1117 regulators (new ones, with low dropout), so sorry, but you got 2.5 Vdrop ones.
Go to sparkfun.com, fill your cart with ADJ 1117 from their site, and checkout on January 7th



BTW guys... if red diode has 3V forward voltage, and LM1117 has 1.2 V drop, that would aproximatly made it runnable with fully charged Li-ion cell... Until the cell's voltage drops, but if you grab something massive like 18650... it would last fairly long... Just my thoughts!
Enjoy!

 

[Eudaimonium]

Just I sec...
You say that I can power up AMC with 8.4V?
As i know recommended voltage for AMC is about 3.6-4.5V.
If I give 8.4V to AMC, what will be output voltage to the diode?

I'll contact jayrob and ask him about batteries.

Well you cannot power it from 8 V...
According to datasheet, max input voltage for AMC is 6 V, anything over that will be bled of as heat I guess, and that ain't good.
Using a silicone diode or two might help, but that is a waste of batteries...

 

[ReNNo]

I plan to use Lm317.
I know how this regulator works.
Any additional voltage will just generate heat but I can use some heatsinks to cool it down.
At least diode is safe.

But I'm asking about AMC7135..
What will happen if I give 8.4V to AMC and diode?

Here is picture...

 

[Eudaimonium]

Thanks for PIC ReNNo,
And I WAS refering to AMC, anything over reccomended voltage simply gets turned to heat, or possibly damage the circuitry
I dunno what to tell ya, silicon diode or two?
Hey I meant only the PCB, I posted a pic of the driver already.
So we can clarify how the PCB looks like, just in case a drawing is confusing!

 

[HIMNL9]

Well you cannot power it from 8 V...
According to datasheet, max input voltage for 1117 is 6 V, anything over that will be bled of as heat I guess, and that ain't good.
Using a silicone diode or two might help, but that is a waste of batteries...

I'm sorry, but here i have to contradict you.

From datasheet:

Absolute maximum input voltage: 20V
Maximum input voltage: 15V <----- this is for normal use
Output voltage regulation: from 1.25 to 13.8V

And, important thing that none considerate, usually, is that the device is planned for dissipate safely a maximum power of 1W at 25C, that becomes 700mW at 50C, and 500mW at 75C .....

The more voltage you push in, the more it become converted in heat in the process of current regulation, this is true ..... so, if you need, as example, 100mA at 3V, and the dropout is 1.2, using 4,5V the chip convert in heat 150 mW ..... with 6V in, the power converted in heat is 300mW ..... with 9V in, is 600mW ..... and with 12V in, is 900mW

And so on .....

 

[Eudaimonium]

I'm sorry, but here i have to contradict you.

From datasheet:

Absolute maximum input voltage: 20V
Maximum input voltage: 15V <----- this is for normal use
Output voltage regulation: from 1.25 to 13.8V

And, important thing that none considerate, usually, is that the device is planned for dissipate safely a maximum power of 1W at 25C, that becomes 700mW at 50C, and 500mW at 75C .....

The more voltage you push in, the more it become converted in heat in the process of current regulation, this is true ..... so, if you need, as example, 100mA at 3V, and the dropout is 1.2, using 4,5V the chip convert in heat 150 mW ..... with 6V in, the power converted in heat is 300mW ..... with 9V in, is 600mW ..... and with 12V in, is 900mW

And so on .....

WTF hold on man,,,, DID I REALLY TYPE 1117?!
I must be goin' blind... I gotta lay of my lasers for awhile! OMFG

I means AMC, sorry guys, editing post now!
Sorry for confusion!

 

[ReNNo]

Here is the picture Eudaimonium.


btw... jayrob has answered my question.
He says that battery must give at least 600mA.
I think I'm gonna give it a try.

 

[spectral532]

BTW guys... if red diode has 3V forward voltage, and LM1117 has 1.2 V drop, that would aproximatly made it runnable with fully charged Li-ion cell... Until the cell's voltage drops, but if you grab something massive like 18650... it would last fairly long... Just my thoughts!
Enjoy!

I'm not sure how well that would work. A Li-ion battery only outputs 4.2v when it is fully charged, the voltage then slowly declines as it discharges. Check out this graph of 18650 discharge curves from CandlePowerForums. You can see that at 1A discharge the Li-ions hold their 4.2v for what seems to be a millisecond before dropping to < 4v (The graph is voltage versus runtime in hours @ 1A for those who cant read german). Plus you have to factor in the 1.25 vRef being dissipated across the sense resistor (If you are using the LM1117 in constant current mode). And we established earlier in this thread that red diodes need just bit over 3v (around 3.2v I think) to function at full power. This gives us 3.2v diode + 1v dropout + 1.25v vRef = 5.45v. So I dont think that a single li-ion is sufficient to run a red diode.

Also, thanks for the PCB layout Eudaimonium, I might use that if I ever plan on making a SMD Driver.