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FrozenGate by Avery

New FOCUSABLE 200mW Red on DX

IgorT said:
:) You've done more than enough. I only wanted to know if you can read the letters on it.

The thing is, even if the circuit is capable of regulation, it is not necessary, that it actually does regulate. Only current measurements with full, half empty and almost empty batteries would answer that. If the current doesn't peak with full batteries, and remains the same at two or more battery voltages, it is regulated. If the current peaks, quickly drops to a lower level, and then decreases very slowly, it is not.
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If it helps the world of lasers I'll I'll help in any way I can :D I haven't taken current measurements, but I do think that it is regulated, here's my reasoning. I popped in two freshly charged CR2's when I got it and I ran this laser quite a lot. The brightness and burning stayed the same, until it all of a sudden it dimmed to a barely visible dot, I think this circuit runs the laser at full power until the batteries are completely dead. It was back to full brightness again when I threw in two new CR2s.
 





Well, i have one "direct drive" red, where you also can not notice the decrease in brightness untill the battery power is really low. Only when measuring it, do i see the power dropping, so this doesn't necessarily mean anything. Basically, every time i power it on, the power is slightly lower.

But i'm sure we'll know soon enough. It would be nice, if the chinese finally managed to make a regulated laser.. :)
 
I did a few current tests. I used the DX Rechargeable CR2 batteries for the test.

Fresh off of the charger when the batteries were charged to 3.6v, The current draw was 330mA. When I used partially used CR2 batteries at 3.28v, the current draw was only 310ma. So what do you think this means?
 
styropyro, could you remove the blob of glue off of the IC? it looks like a TI chip, but i cant read the part number.
 
I tried to remove the glue, but it doesn't want to come off. It is pretty plastered to the IC.

Here's what I think it says:
2 / 20
(TI logo) 07T
CVEY
 
IgorT said:
What is the distance to the match, when you are doing this? EDIT: These are also paper matches.. All i ever tried were wooden ones. Need to get me some paper ones.


Oh, and did anyone measure if the current changes with the battery voltage? Do we know if it is regulated or not?
If the driver board is easily accessible, some pics of it would be greatly appreciated.
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Ahhh, the only white match I tried was the beefy wooden white-tipped matches.
 
styropyro said:
Fresh off of the charger when the batteries were charged to 3.6v, The current draw was 330mA. When I used partially used CR2 batteries at 3.28v, the current draw was only 310ma. So what do you think this means?
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Thank you! That's what i wanted to know.

Well, it means the laser is most likely not regulated. You will probably notice the current is going to decrease even more, when the batteries slowly go empty. It also means, that two 3.6V CR2s (blue) would probably kill it instantly.


Luckily, since it has place for two batteries, a driver replacement would be very easy. You could use the normal LM317 driver, if it was made to fit in there. After that, you would have to use two 3.6V CR2 batteries (blue, charge up to 4.2V), so that the driver could remain in regulation. With the green ones, it would drop out very quickly.

What i don't understand, is why they used two batteries in this laser, when they could achieve the same results with only one. But most of these lasers don't have any kind of regulation whatsoever. Even the expensive CNI lasers (Nova X and Alpha series) don't (i asked my CNI sales rep). So you don't really have to worry about it. It's funny, that they all have complicated "driver" circuits, that don't do much else but heat up. Mostly, a resistor, capacitor and a diode could do the same thing as well.


But a driver replacement would be an upgrade, and would mean, that every time you turn it on, it comes on at the same power. I wouldn't recomment trying to go for a higher current, than the max you measured. Maybe even a little lower (300-310mA).


Also, since the diode can withstand up to 330mA, it must be better, than the 16x Sony diode. But the current vs. power characteristics seem closer to it, than to an open can. It's interesting to say the least. I am tempted to buy it, just so that i could play with it a little (test the diode, replace the electronics).
 
Actually to know for sure you should measure the current through the LD. This laser has many components, but I don't know. I'm not great with electronics, but I'm good enough. I know that the current is the same anywhere in a serial circuit, but maybe there is some parallel stuff in there? Do you know that I mean?
It's damn hard to explain. :-[
 
I took some more measurements, The laser only draws 330ma for a short amount of time. After the freshly charged batteries have been used for a half a minute, the draw goes down to 310ma, this is when the batteries are at 3.4v a piece. When the batteries are down to 3.2v a piece, the current draw is still 310ma. I'll post some more measurements when the batteries are nearly dead to see what the current draw is then.

Oh, IgorT, I think you should pick up one of these, they are fun to mess around with, even if you have a bunch of DIYs.
 
FireMyLaser said:
I know that the current is the same anywhere in a serial circuit, but maybe there is some parallel stuff in there? Do you know that I mean?
It's damn hard to explain. :-[
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I know exactly what you mean, but even if some current was bypassed in parallel with the diode, the total current would still stay the same with different battery voltages if it was regulated. But that only makes sense if it is a constant current source, which can not be adjusted otherwise, like the AMC. The only example i can think of right now, where the current in would change with the voltage, but the current out would stay the same would be a buck regulator (or boost but not in this example). But there the current would increase, as the battery voltage would drop. A buck regulator would make the most out of two batteries, because they work at a high efficiency. Compared to that, a 317 wastes more than an entire battery.


But in most cases you can get a pretty good idea of the LD current by measuring the current going into the circuit.

What we can not know for sure is the exact current through the LD itself, because the circuit can also consume a few mA, but i if the current continues to drop, i'm pretty sure it is unregulated. I'm gonna wait for StyroPyro to measure with the batteries even more empty than they are now, and then we will know for sure.

Without regulation the current peaks when the batteries are full, then it levels out and remains almost constant for a while and drops very slowly, but steadily. In the 20A DMM range you wouldn't even notice the change for a while. In the end it starts dropping fast and the brightness decreases.
This is for example the behaviour of my first red, which was direct drive from a Li-PO. It is also what most green lasers behave like.


Styro: Don't wait untill they are completelly empty. Even a regulated circuit would drop out of regulation by then. It is better to make the nex measurement somewhere in the middle of the battery capacity. It should come out at around 270-280mA soon with these batteries. The current consumption is almost identical to the KD50 on the same battery.

EDIT: A quicker way to test for regulation would be to go to a lower DMM range (2A). If the current was regulated, you shouldn't see much difference from before, and if it's not, there would probably be a noticable difference immediatelly (simply from the larger DMM resistance), and you would see it slowly dropping.


Otherwise, you are right, i am tempted by this laser, just modding it would be lots of fun. But i really think i wasted enough money on lasers for a while.. I promised my Laser Addicts Anonymous sponsor i wouldn't buy more lasers.. Or did i say green lasers? ;)
 
I did some more tests, as the battery voltage dropped to 3.21v, the current was hovering between 300mA and 310mA on my multimeter (My DMM only has 200mA and 20A settings), Over the course of my tests the current never dropped below 300mA until the batteries were dead. Then I ran the laser on and off until it suddenly dimmed to barely anything. Then I let it sit for ten minutes, I took a measurement and it peaked at 200mA, and it almost instantly dropped to 40mA, I checked the voltage of the batteries and one of them was down to .75v! These aren't protected batteries so I won't be surprised if that battery is dead.
 
This is very interesting! I don't understand why the current peaks at the start, but it is possible, that there actually is some kind of regulation after all. Now i want to buy it even more, just to make sure.. :)

I am noticing a very similiar behaviour in my CNI 150. The manufacturer told me there is no current or PD regulation, but the current is surprisingly stable even on different battery types or at different voltages on the same type.


Well, i guess that's good news then. It's even better, than i thought, and at a very good price. Thank you for the measurements Styro!
 
hey somebody posted some AWESOME videos about the 200 red, who was it and where are those videos!! (lighted gunpowder, a white match and a balloon, it rocked)
 
nikokapo said:
hey somebody posted some AWESOME videos about the 200 red, who was it and where are those videos!! (lighted gunpowder, a white match and a balloon, it rocked)
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That was me ;D I'll post them again.
 
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