New Earthquake Proof Bed May Actually Be A Terrible Idea

[Pi R Squared]

i get that a significant portion of the world population lives by active fault lines, but wouldn't it just be easier for them to move somewhere else?

No it wouldn't. Most of the danger areas are on the coasts. All over the world since ancient times, civilizations sprang up in coastal regions and along large rivers, this was vital to exploration, transportation, and trade. This is still where most of the population lives and it's still necessary for trade and transportation. There's too much infrastructure in place to replace it, and too many cities with too many people. Many large corporations have their operations in these zones because of the ports and the railroads that operate up and down the coast. Just here in the "cascadia subduction zone" that stretches from Cape Mendocino California to the northern tip of Vancouver Island B.C. Canada. They say that the most dangerous part of it is the entire region west of Interstate 5 and it could be completely destroyed when the big one hits, that's 7,000,000 people that live just in the region west of I5. I myself am 10 miles west of I5. Where are you going to relocate them to? Here just in Washington state alone we have 2 of the largest ports in the United States that are vital to the U.S. economy and the economy of Washington State.

In 1873, the Northern Pacific Railroad selected an area here as its western terminus, because the deep waters of Commencement Bay in South Puget Sound made it a perfect port. A few years later, the town of Tacoma incorporated. The Port of Tacoma alone accounts for about 43,000 local jobs and 113,000 jobs just in Washington state as a result of the handling of containerized cargo at the port.

Seattle in the early 1900's invested millions of dollars to create a public port corporation. The port, which celebrated its centennial in 2011, now directly accounts for more than 21,000 local jobs and about 135,000 jobs in Washington state result from the handling of containerized cargo at the port.

There are railroad and trucking jobs across the U.S. And all those truck stops that serve the truckers. And guess where all that stuff you buy at Walmart comes from.

Alan

 

[Alaskan]

Here in Alaska small earth quakes are common, which my wife hates, she isn't accustomed to them and they really freak her out. I wouldn't have that for myself here, but wish I had one when I was working in Afghanistan and having rocket attacks, would have been nice to push a button and close myself into a can, or just sleep in it. I was living in a wooden hut for the five years I worked there and rockets were coming in and exploding near enough to me to shake my bed nearly every month.

 

[Pi R Squared]

I think most people don't understand the terror that people face when they find themselves in a war zone. There's a reason that there are millions of people fleeing there homes where I am sure they would much rather stay. They are afraid of being killed!

Alan

 

[Benm]

Moving out of earthquake prone areas isn't feasible indeed.

For example, the entire country of indonesia is prone to earthquakes (which is common for volcanic islands) with a population of over 200 million. Where should all these people go? And how can we still access the resources there without people?

It is possible to build buildings that can withstand significant earthquakes, and you usually see most victims in poor areas with simple construction techniques (hand laid brick and mortar).

Here in the netherlands we rarely have earthquakes, apart from some very minor ones around collapsing gas fields. Highrises are still built with safety precautions in case a bigger one happens though.

As for getting used to them: I suppose you will at some point. I've experienced several in indonesia, never at any danger to me, mostly because they were far away, not small. It's still quite startling with the doors banging in their frames and the bed shaking under you.

 

[micheal rosen]

Moving out of earthquake prone areas isn't feasible indeed.

For example, the entire country of indonesia is prone to earthquakes (which is common for volcanic islands) with a population of over 200 million. Where should all these people go? And how can we still access the resources there without people?

It is possible to build buildings that can withstand significant earthquakes, and you usually see most victims in poor areas with simple construction techniques (hand laid brick and mortar).

Here in the netherlands we rarely have earthquakes, apart from some very minor ones around collapsing gas fields. Highrises are still built with safety precautions in case a bigger one happens though.

As for getting used to them: I suppose you will at some point. I've experienced several in indonesia, never at any danger to me, mostly because they were far away, not small. It's still quite startling with the doors banging in their frames and the bed shaking under you.

it was kinda a joke.

we could do what patrick did, and take our problems, and push them somewhere else!!!

 

[Benm]

Hehe.. we could try

Then again, solving a problem sometimes works just fine. I live in a country where about half of the land is actually below sea level, and that's working out very well. The only point is being a rich country so you can afford proper countermeasures, and having political will do to so.

The latter may be a problem here and there. As I understand the US is a very wealthy country on average, but apparently unable or unwilling to construct tornado-proof housing for the most part.

To me this is odd - i'm not suprised a hurricane would rip roofs of shacks in the phillipines at all, but 'proper houses' in the US don't seem much more resilient.

 

[Pi R Squared]

Hehe.. we could try

Then again, solving a problem sometimes works just fine. I live in a country where about half of the land is actually below sea level, and that's working out very well. The only point is being a rich country so you can afford proper countermeasures, and having political will do to so.

The latter may be a problem here and there. As I understand the US is a very wealthy country on average, but apparently unable or unwilling to construct tornado-proof housing for the most part.

To me this is odd - i'm not suprised a hurricane would rip roofs of shacks in the phillipines at all, but 'proper houses' in the US don't seem much more resilient.

Housing is very expensive in the U.S. It is the largest part of a persons living expenses. Many more people live in apartments than in houses. I would think it would cost a fortune to build a house that's tornado proof, they do make windows you can have installed that can withstand 300mph winds, that is about what the most powerful F5 tornado will produce, some rich people on the south east coast and gulf coast have these in their homes in case of hurricanes. I suppose we could build more concrete houses and buildings, and maybe some that are below ground level in areas of high tornado activity, but if the government required new tornado proof construction standards it would just make housing even less affordable.

Earthquake survivability is another matter, we can do better at that, and most areas in the earthquake zones have standards for new construction, but there will remain no shortage of older buildings that will continue to be a danger in an earthquake.

Alan

 

[micheal rosen]

Hehe.. we could try

Then again, solving a problem sometimes works just fine. I live in a country where about half of the land is actually below sea level, and that's working out very well. The only point is being a rich country so you can afford proper countermeasures, and having political will do to so.

The latter may be a problem here and there. As I understand the US is a very wealthy country on average, but apparently unable or unwilling to construct tornado-proof housing for the most part.

To me this is odd - i'm not suprised a hurricane would rip roofs of shacks in the phillipines at all, but 'proper houses' in the US don't seem much more resilient.

tornadoes really destroy everything, its nearly impossible to fortify a large house against them, and horrendously expensive. hurricane proof housing is much easier, though a larger challenge becuase of the massive number of houses that would need to be reinforced against hurricanes. when it comes to tornadoes, its highly unlikely anyone living in central US would ever experience a dangerous one, as they are quite rare, so the need to fortify your house against them does not justify the multimillion dollar cost (for a large house).

 

[Pi R Squared]

when it comes to tornadoes, its highly unlikely anyone living in central US would ever experience a dangerous one, as they are quite rare, so the need to fortify your house against them does not justify the multimillion dollar cost (for a large house).

They aren't that rare, there are about 1300 a year, fortunately the U.S. is so large that it is rare for them to touch down in a populated area, I think only about one in a hundred of them kill people, and then it's usually only several people. You could live in a place like Oklahoma or Kansas where they have an abnormally high number of tornados and never get hit by one in your lifetime, but some people there will. You don't have much chance of getting struck by lightning either, yet many people do, fortunately most people don't walk around outside during thunderstorms. Why do we buy lottery tickets? You know you're not going to win, but someone has to win don't they.

I remember back during the first gulf war in 1990/1991 the Iraqis attacked Israel in the hopes of drawing Israel into the war so as to cause trouble and disagreement among the international coalition. There were a few missiles that hit Tel Aviv as they were targeting the military headquarters there. I remember watching this broadcast live, notice at about 1:10 into the video Lou in Atlanta voices his concern for Richard in Tel Aviv, Richard says "it's a big world and I don't think the missile is going to get me" :crackup: I fully expected one to land and explode behind him on live TV but it didn't happen, the thing they saw flying overhead turned out to be Russian space junk burning up on reentry.

We should probably plan for the future and also try to make buildings bomb resistant.

Alan

 

[Alaskan]

I think most people don't understand the terror that people face when they find themselves in a war zone. There's a reason that there are millions of people fleeing there homes where I am sure they would much rather stay. They are afraid of being killed!

Alan

When I worked in Afghanistan my thought was I'd rather have a rocket land on top of my head than cripple me for life, one came within 100 feet of me and killed a soldier, others a few hundred feet, had enough of that.

 

[Benm]

Housing prices here are quite high as well, probably comparable to those in the US. The netherlands is a pretty small country (200x300 km or so) housing a population of about 17 million. About half of those live in a big urban area no larger than about 100x100 km.

Fortunately hurricanes and such are not much of an issue here as we are further north than all of the US (except alaska), and heavy quakes aren't common in western europe either. We do get pretty serious storms once in a while though.

The idea that a highrise would be less resilient compared to a single or two story building is not really true. I live on the 15th floor, and this fairly old building was designed to withstand 200 km/h winds without damage, and over 250 without structural damage (i.e. ralings might blow off and some windows may go, but the core and staircases will stand).

In storms here the most damage is actually in rural areas with farms having their roofs blown off and such, while the damage in modern urban areas is mostly from trees being blown over and landing on cars, buildings or even people.

Risk is all relative i suppose. I spoke to an isreali chemistry professor once and the topic of attacks somehow came up. I asked if he was affraid of being killed in one, and his response was "about as affraid as you are of being hit by lightning". We do have decdent lightning rods on the roof here btw, though i've lived in highrises for over 15 years and never needed one