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Negative Experience - Le Thanh Tung (thanhtung)

3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
So, I'm a newb to this group. I joined back in July and found Le Thanh Tung via this message board and decided to give him a shot and purchase a working laser from him. I wanted to build my own, but being rather low on knowledge of laser components, I thought I'd buy one first, and see how that went before building.

I purchased a laser from him.

When I received the laser, I was unable to get it to operate. The laser was not functional. Batteries were installed via Tung's diagram as to ensure proper polarity. I'm not sure if the issue occurred during shipping or if the item was never operational.

So I contacted Tung. After emailing back and forth a bit with him, he offered a fix - he believed there was a short somewhere and showed me how to attempt to fix this issue - "Screw turn out 1/2 round" on what appeared to be a spacer disk. So, I tried this. This fix was unable to satisfactorily fix the issue. I was able to get the laser to operate for a few seconds and then the laser completely stopped working. At this point, I was not willing to continue to work on the laser, given my experience with them.

I notified him that the laser was still inoperable.

His solution at this time was for me to mail it back to him, he'd repair it and mail it back to me.

At this time I told him that "spending $40 to ship it back to him and $40 to ship it back to me" wasn't the fix I'd prefer and that I wish I'd have received the working laser I thought I was purchasing.

At this time, he stopped replying to me.

So, I gave him a couple weeks to reply. Hearing nothing, I turned it over to PayPal.

PayPal told me to return the item and I did. However, the tracking information stops in Hanoi, Vietnam and does not show the package as being delivered. Tung has acknowledged several times via Facebook that he has received the laser and that he "cannot refund me because of the claim on Paypal."

I disagree with this - PayPal is waiting for his action.

He can refund me at anytime, but for some reason has chosen not to do so.

So, I'm out the cost of the laser, the cost of returning the laser and the laser itself.

I highly suggest discretion when dealing with this individual as of right now, he is a thief of my laser, my payment or both.


[Edit] I've been asked to edit this post a little bit to clarify a few things.

First, I have received a refund, but still stand by my opinion of this transaction as being negative and still urge caution when dealing with Le Thanh Tung (Thanhtung.)

This post has lead to some discussion about the Vietnamese vendors in this group.

From what I can tell, we have Le Thanh Tung (Thanhtung) and Trinh Hong Phuoc (trinh hong phuoc).

This thread is only related to my personal experience with Le Thanh Tung (thanhtung.)

I have never dealt with Trinh Hong Phuoc (trinh hong phuoc). [/end edit]
 
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3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
Tung - Why will you not issue a refund? If you issue a refund, the PayPal case will close automatically. You are holding both my payment and the laser.
 

thanhtung

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
485
Points
63
Tung - Why will you not issue a refund? If you issue a refund, the PayPal case will close automatically. You are holding both my payment and the laser.
I dont hold your money, it is Paypal has holding! You must to wait Paypal solve this dispute ! If Paypal not refund, i will do it :)
 

3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
I dont hold your money, it is Paypal has holding! You must to wait Paypal solve this dispute ! If Paypal not refund, i will do it :)

You hold both the laser and the money. I hold nothing.

Issuing a refund AUTOMATICALLY closes the dispute. Straight from PayPal's website. All you have to do is make the choice to issue the refund.

I have returned the laser to you.

I ask you kindly, please stop saying you'll do it, and actually do it.
 

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thanhtung

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Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
485
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63
I said with you that : pls patien for Paypal solve! But you not , and clamour like as a kid!
50635020463_c10ce4b96f_z.jpg
 

3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
I said with you that : pls patien for Paypal solve! But you not , and clamour like as a kid!
50635020463_c10ce4b96f_z.jpg

Your method of finishing this deal is disappointing, Tung. You’re attempting to save face, rather than just be honest and accept the thank you I offered in your Facebook group.

It’s amazing that we’ve been waiting for PayPal to solve this for several weeks and low and behold on the day I leave this post, PayPal solves it.

There are 2 ways PayPal can verify the package was delivered - you can tell them or the tracking number will automatically update. One of these events has not occurred.

The tracking number is still showing “in transit” so that leaves one option for how they found out - that is that you did the right thing and told them - after being prompted by this post.

I honestly appreciate the refund, Tung, but I am dumbfounded by your methods. Either way, thanks.

For everyone else, caveat emptor...
 

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3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
So bad laser, bad communication, took weeks to reply and then insults you by calling you a kid. Sounds like bad business to me.
Pretty much.

I can shoulder some of the blame for bad communication issues, there could have been some things I could have been a little more clear on. Perhaps during the period of no comms from Tung, I could have reached out more, but I didn’t. I'll live and learn, there.
 
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Giannis_TDM

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
534
Points
63
Just gonna leave this here, think of what you want about It, I just want to point out that Thanh said that he can't refund because he opened a dispute but magically the cash appeared in 3Eleven's wallet today on the 23rd... 1606152519596.png
 

3ElevenBrodel

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
16
Points
13
That's exactly right, Gianakakis, he kept telling me he couldn't offer a refund. We had to wait until the 25th to see if Paypal offered a refund. He was basing this off PayPal's "Expected resolution date of 11/24."

He told me multiple times to close my dispute and he'd refund me. No. Not happening. Close the dispute and you have 0.00 recourse. I left it in the off chance the tracking would come alive and indicate delivered. It hasn't.

Magically, 12 hours after leaving a post on his Facebook page, I have a refund shortly after comments are turned off on my Facebook post.. Maybe I'm wearing too much tinfoil, but that's just how it feels.

Man, so much drama.. LOL

So, I was all prepared to let this die after I received a refund, but apparently I'm not the only one to have issues with Tung, and given his actions post refund coupled with the PM's and public communications about lasers not working, shady dealings, etc from other people, I thought I'd just put a little more detail into this.

Firstly - I don't believe Paypal closed this case, not that it really matters, but given Tung's accusations above, I'm going to fully address this.

PayPal only works via tracking number and seller input to close a dispute. I spoke to PayPal via the phone and they told me explicitly that either a.) the tracking number would have to show delivered or b.) the seller could indicate the package had arrived and update the claim. That's it. Outside of that, they're sorry, but "get a signature next time...."

I believe this is what happened. Tung actually did the right thing. The stand up thing. He acknowledged he received the laser to PayPal and they offered a refund on his behalf. I don't see the logic behind acting like he didn't do this. But he's insistent he offered no refund. "Thank Paypal."

So, yesterday - 11/22 - I left a post in Tung's Facebook group essentially suggesting caution when dealing with Tung. We all know how blowing someone up publicly will sometimes resolve an issue, so, I went there. I did. I tried to ignite a little fire under Tung. He had my laser. He had my money. Why can't I have a refund?

Well, as one would expect, I was getting blown up pretty hard on his Facebook group for my post, but it is his group, it was to be expected. Go to an Aerosmith group and tell them Aerosmith music sucks and see what the reply it. I knew that going in.

Anyway, many seem to think they have all the facts in this matter and outside of myself and Tung, no one does.

Mostly I've been told I'm being "ridiculous and impatient." "I'm ruining my own name." Well, if expecting a timely refund is ruining my name, I guess I'm prepared to "die on that hill."

I'm being told this mostly by people who have no idea what transpired between myself and Tung, sooo.. I'd like to throw a little timeline out here.. These dates can be verified via email records, if we need that..

8/7 - I bought a laser from Tung.

8/10 - Laser shipped. Quick shipping! It was much appreciated.

8/20 - I’m not 100% sure what day I received the laser, but on 8/20 I emailed Tung to let him know it didn’t function. Now, I’m a laser newb, so it could have been my fault. So I thought I'd give him a shout. Checked the voltage on my batteries. Verified the correct orientation per the diagram Tung sent. Couldn't make it work.

8/20 Tung offers a suggested fix. Rotate the spacer ring "1/2 out." And he included a picture. I attempt suggested fix and was able to get the laser to work for a brief period of time. It was late, so I put it away.

8/22 - I email Tung with questions about the power levels. “Shouldn’t it be able to burn paper.” Again, I’m a newb to lasers. I wasn’t born holding one.

8/22 Tung replies with a link to a YouTube video to help me focus the beam. Very helpful on Tungs part.

I was out of town so the laser sat idle, and I was unable to try the video he sent.

9/2 I'm home, and able to tinker with the laser. I was able to make it burn paper, briefly. I literally got less than 5 minutes operation out of the laser. And the beam always seemed too wide, but this could be the newb in me talking, I am not a laser expert.

9/4 I email Tung to let him know the laser is still not the functional laser I thought I was purchasing. His fix did not work.

9/4 Tung replies. Suggests sending the laser back to him, he repairs it and ships it back.

9/4 I reply and let him know spending almost $80 shipping on an $80 laser is a prohibitive solution IMO and I express I wish I had received a working laser.

Now, maybe this is where I made a mistake. I left it here. I "left the ball in his court" as to suggest a solution. I'm a business man, I would have offered a refund. Perhaps I should have just said "Ok, I'd like a refund." I didn't and he never replied.

That was the last I heard from Tung. No reply. So, I waited a couple days, well, weeks. Life happens, people get busy. Still nothing. Ok. My laser doesn’t work. The seller isn’t replying. Perhaps another comm breakdown on my part. Should I have emailed him again? Possibly. But he was very on top of the situation until it stopped working and then he ghosted me, so some red flags went up.

9/22 So, I opened the claim at PayPal. Figured it might at least get his attention and we could work through it. If you’ve never done this, this gives the buyer and seller the opportunity to work issues out, officially. Never heard a word. No reply. Several weeks go by. I hear nothing. PayPal is waiting to hear from Tung. Nothing.

I get a message from PayPal telling me to return the item they have ruled I should ship the laser to Tung to get a refund.

10/21 The laser is in the hands of the USPS headed to Tung.

10/30 Laser is in Hanoi and is in transit and the tracking dies. PayPal begins continually updating the "resolution expected date." They are waiting on the tracking information to show "Delivered!" It never comes. Roughly 2 weeks go by. Nothing.

So, I'm shot. Tracking is dead. I figured it'd reach out to Tung. I found a post in the Laser Pointer group on Facebook and asked if he had received it. I am no longer a member of that group so I don't know the exact date, but I think it was 11/16.

Now, I have to give a positive credit to Tung here. He could have simply acted like he never got it. He could have walked away and never said another word, but again, he did the honorable thing and admitted he had received it. Which is why some of this is so puzzling to me.

So, I asked Tung if he received the laser. “Yes, but I have not checked it.” Ok, no big deal. I ask him if he could check it and move this transaction through.

A couple days go by, and I don't hear anything, so on the same thread at Facebook, I check with him again. “Did you check the laser?”

Essentially all he said was “Yes.” OK. Sweet. He's received the laser, he's checked it. I ask for a refund. Surely a refund will follow. Seems the logical thing to do.

At this point, I am told I need to cancel the dispute so he can refund my money. He seemed to be concerned that PayPal was going to double dip on his refund. If he refunded my order and then they ruled in my favor, he'd get hit twice.

I tried to explain to him this would not happen, I showed him (and others) that even PayPal acknowledged the refund would end the dispute. Still, he insisted on me waiting.

And then, all the sudden, a refund arrives.

Good news! Tung is indeed the stand up guy everyone had been telling me he is. I'm pretty glad to have this drama behind us.

I delete the post in Tung's Facebook group and leave an honest "Thank you" post and I receive the same post there as I received here from Tung.

So, that's where this sits. Tung may be an excellent seller. He may be the most standup guy on the planet.

*MY* experience with Tung is bar none the most awkward and convoluted internet transaction I've ever had in over 25 years of dealing on the internet, so take that with however many grains of salt are needed. If this transaction makes you feel like not buying/selling with me, so be it.

Buy from him, you'll probably be fine.

I won't.
 
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Philipnzw

Active member
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
122
Points
43
Normally, I don't like to get involved in drama and bickering, but I'm making an exception this time as laser safety is involved.

I don't quite get the name calling, IMO it's totally uncalled for and not justified. This transaction has been an absolute shit show. All that being said, the $ is refunded so yeah problem solved.

Now to the main point:
I've long been a lurker in that Facebook group, although it's not stated clearly, it's a rather well known fact that Tung has admin access to it, so don't be surprised if anything is censored/removed/deleted. IMO there exists a huge conflict of interest, the name of that page is "Laser Pointer Fans", so one would think it's a general page for laser pointer enthusiasts. In reality its actually just "tung's laser selling group", as that group is just mainly filled with his sales ads and die hard supporters anyway.

Besides that huge red flag, that page is also lacking proper admin monitoring. Please see the attached image for example. The dude is showing off the fact that he is playing with his dog, with a 1 watt green sanwu laser. YES, I'm not kidding, I wish I made that shit up but it's real.

What's genuinely sickening is non of the admins ever show up in the comments to advocate for safety. And even more worryingly is the bunch of wankers in the comment section saying "it's not a big deal, I've never used safety goggles and I'm still fine". To put it in a simple way, a lot of members there are maddeningly ignorant when it comes to safety. Thankfully there are a few sound minds that gave thorough safety advice in the comments, albeit with a harsher tone of warning. (myself included). But honestly, it shouldn't just be a community thing. The ones on top (admins) have the obligation to be the ones taking immediate action to advocate for proper laser safety.
I know laser safety is kind of an individual responsibility, but I mean... by not advocating for laser safety, that is just "actively not doing anything", which is not different from actively doing harm, in this case. It will be a matter of time before one of the misinformed wankers shoot themselves/ someone in the eye with a high power laser.

Let me just put it this way: If you see your neighbour's house on fire and you have an extinguisher, you use that shit. Heck you might despise your neighbour, but remember that the fire can spread to your house and burn it to ashes as well.
In our case, it's simple to stand by and not advocate for safety, but remember that these wankers can possibly shoot out their eyes and get this entire hobby nuked when they get the government's attention.

Those that browse this place frequently might remember the 20w laser shining into empty building post. It's clear someone here has very little respect for laser safety. And I hope that changes in the future.
 

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