Mistake

[Digger]

Yawn. Life is short guys. Agree to disagree and build a bridge.

Well put! :beer:

 

[lasersbee]

I also agree...
This is over as far as I'm concerned....:beer:

Jerry

 

[Eudaimonium]

OMG Just saw his.

Wow, stuff is really bad these days here at LPF, with drama and all.

For how long is CJ banned?
This is like... second time he's banned?

I dunno if I am banned two times, I seriously doubt I'd be back at all. I hope CJ is that much different than me.

 

[WLHostage]

But you have. You have given information to people that are regulars on LPF. What did you expect them to do? You knew exactly what you were doing. Total BS. You conned all those guys, and used them to do your dirty work. You got one so amped he got banned. You're a good friend.



More BS. Exactly how do you have his back? Except maybe patting him on the back for doing your dirty work. Are you going to lend him money if he needs it? Bail him out of jail? Help him move? Fix his car? Put food in his fridge? So again, exactly how do you have his back?

Fact is he got banned for the shit you placed in his ear. Jay is a good, and loyal person, as are some others, and you totally exploited them. You should be the one banned.

Hopefully this whole fiasco prevents others from trying to get into the middle of it again. If Kenom and Jerry have an issue, it's their issue let them work it out. Anyone else getting in the middle of it doesn't help anyone. There is no one else involved with the Ebay stuff, if something happened there is no way to confirm or disprove it you will forever be a 3rd party taking information second hand, which means you will never have all of the true data.

As the saying goes, there's sideA, sideB, then the truth. This occurs not necessarily because people are lying (though that's certainly a factor if it occurs), but because of people's perceptions. Both Jerry and Kenom will have different perceptions of what occured and their accounts of what happened will be slightly skewed by those perceptions. In many cases like this it is not all that uncommon for both parties to be right to some extent, but the truth always lays somewhere in the middle.

So far here is the info I have found on the two in question...

Kenom - Sells a comparable product to Laserbee, as far as I have seen he has been straight forward in his dealings with buyers. Generally seems willing to acknowledge specific faults with certain products he sells and works to improve those faults with the newer versions (ask him about his first LPM and he will tell you all the areas he could have improved it).

However, I have seen him be overly harsh to new competitors in the market, specifically laserbee. He came straight out and called the new LPM's a piece of junk even though they were essentially the same as the ones he produced. He berated Laserbee and his products openly on the forums. He was clearly wrong in this approach, though the forum generally seemed to support him for some odd reason. So far this is really the only negative thing I have witnessed in regards to Kenom's behavior and if something did occur between these two it may very well explain this behavior.


Laserbee - Sells a competative product to Kenom's LPM's, apparently using the exact same thermopiles. Prices between the two products are relatively similar.

Up to this point I have not seen Laserbee be anything but absolutely willing to help others with any questions they have. From what I can tell he has generally tried to stay out of the forum bashing even when being directly attacked by other members. About the most riled up I have seen him was in response to CJ's posts asking him to please stop.

It has been claimed that he abused Kenom's trust and bought out his originally supplier in order to start his own business. Up to this point there has been no official statement from Kenom in regards to this. If Kenom shared his supplier to someone who was looking to be a competitor then that wasn't a good move on his part no matter what. If Laserbee did buy out Kenom's supplier, that certainly may be an ethical issue between Kenom and Laserbee but realistically doesn't directly effect their customers or anyone else for that matter especially when Kenom is unwilling to make the accusation directly. It is my position that without a direct accusation from Kenom this particular issue should simply be ignored as it currently stands there is no evidence this occured other than slanderous satements made by 3rd parties who are basing their posts simply on heresay with no factual evidence. If there is in fact an issue in regards to this, then Kenom needs to make that statement with supporting evidence, anything short of that simply doesn't hold water. And Kenom has already demonstrated he is willing to blatantly lie in regards to the quality of Laserbee's products.


So in summary, I have seen Kenom try to openly beat the new guy down, his motives for such are certainly still up in the air, but Laserbee has been nothing but helpful to the community from what I can tell and has tried to be civil when dealing with Kenom's apparent rage (justified or not) towards him and the others that appear to do Kenom's bidding (unwittingly or not).

I have no direct bias towards either part and do not own either of their LPM's. The only interaction I have had with either of them have been in reading their posts and a few responses from Laserbee in regards to questions I have asked. From what I can tell they both offer very comparable products at similar prices both of which appear to be pretty good quality.

 

[Tech_Junkie]

He was clearly wrong in this approach, though the forum generally seemed to support him for some odd reason.

Thats because Ken's a master manipulator. I know, because I used to be one too. Till my family and friends had an intervention and I realized what a scum bag I was being. I dont think Ken has family, or friends to show him the proper way to act. One member told me he was helping Ken because Ken needed the money. WTF, a kid, who has no money himself, is worrying about Kens finances??? There is still a member that has a "Help Ken" link in his sig. He has these guys on puppet strings, and they are to naive to see it. He does all his work on Laserchat, away from LPF and the communities eyes. Thats why the forum supports him. All the minions do the dirty work here, while he sits back and smiles. Some people on PL had his act pegged, and I didn't believe it.

I do now. :yabbem:

 

[lasersbee]

Hopefully this whole fiasco prevents others from trying to get into the middle of it again. If Kenom and Jerry have an issue, it's their issue let them work it out. Anyone else getting in the middle of it doesn't help anyone. There is no one else involved with the Ebay stuff, if something happened there is no way to confirm or disprove it you will forever be a 3rd party taking information second hand, which means you will never have all of the true data.

As the saying goes, there's sideA, sideB, then the truth. This occurs not necessarily because people are lying (though that's certainly a factor if it occurs), but because of people's perceptions. Both Jerry and Kenom will have different perceptions of what occured and their accounts of what happened will be slightly skewed by those perceptions. In many cases like this it is not all that uncommon for both parties to be right to some extent, but the truth always lays somewhere in the middle.

So far here is the info I have found on the two in question...

Kenom - Sells a comparable product to Laserbee, as far as I have seen he has been straight forward in his dealings with buyers. Generally seems willing to acknowledge specific faults with certain products he sells and works to improve those faults with the newer versions (ask him about his first LPM and he will tell you all the areas he could have improved it).

However, I have seen him be overly harsh to new competitors in the market, specifically laserbee. He came straight out and called the new LPM's a piece of junk even though they were essentially the same as the ones he produced. He berated Laserbee and his products openly on the forums. He was clearly wrong in this approach, though the forum generally seemed to support him for some odd reason. So far this is really the only negative thing I have witnessed in regards to Kenom's behavior and if something did occur between these two it may very well explain this behavior.


Laserbee - Sells a competative product to Kenom's LPM's, apparently using the exact same thermopiles. Prices between the two products are relatively similar.

Up to this point I have not seen Laserbee be anything but absolutely willing to help others with any questions they have. From what I can tell he has generally tried to stay out of the forum bashing even when being directly attacked by other members. About the most riled up I have seen him was in response to CJ's posts asking him to please stop.

It has been claimed that he abused Kenom's trust and bought out his originally supplier in order to start his own business. Up to this point there has been no official statement from Kenom in regards to this. If Kenom shared his supplier to someone who was looking to be a competitor then that wasn't a good move on his part no matter what. If Laserbee did buy out Kenom's supplier, that certainly may be an ethical issue between Kenom and Laserbee but realistically doesn't directly effect their customers or anyone else for that matter especially when Kenom is unwilling to make the accusation directly. It is my position that without a direct accusation from Kenom this particular issue should simply be ignored as it currently stands there is no evidence this occured other than slanderous satements made by 3rd parties who are basing their posts simply on heresay with no factual evidence. If there is in fact an issue in regards to this, then Kenom needs to make that statement with supporting evidence, anything short of that simply doesn't hold water. And Kenom has already demonstrated he is willing to blatantly lie in regards to the quality of Laserbee's products.


So in summary, I have seen Kenom try to openly beat the new guy down, his motives for such are certainly still up in the air, but Laserbee has been nothing but helpful to the community from what I can tell and has tried to be civil when dealing with Kenom's apparent rage (justified or not) towards him and the others that appear to do Kenom's bidding (unwittingly or not).

I have no direct bias towards either part and do not own either of their LPM's. The only interaction I have had with either of them have been in reading their posts and a few responses from Laserbee in regards to questions I have asked. From what I can tell they both offer very comparable products at similar prices both of which appear to be pretty good quality.

No offence but I need to clarify that a bit....

The 5 Watt Limited Edition LaserBee we sold on eBay is
the only LaserBee that uses the OPHIR heads in question..
And since these heads are only available from OHIR at near
$400.00 each in single quantities... This LaserBee product
is only available until we have no more OHIR Heads hence
the Limited Edition moniker...

The LaserBee I and LaserBee II use a Thermopile Head
that is manufactured by us and therefore we will not run out.


We have been in business for over 25 years... and we have
been selling the LaserBee products for almost 3years...
We don't need those limited surplus heads to start a
business...:beer:


Jerry

 

[WLHostage]

Thats because Ken's a master manipulator. I know, because I used to be one too. Till my family and friends had an intervention and I realized what a scum bag I was being. I dont think Ken has family, or friends to show him the proper way to act. One member told me he was helping Ken because Ken needed the money. WTF, a kid, who has no money himself, is worrying about Kens finances??? There is still a member that has a "Help Ken" link in his sig. He has these guys on puppet strings, and they are to naive to see it. He does all his work on Laserchat, away from LPF and the communities eyes. Thats why the forum supports him. All the minions do the dirty work here, while he sits back and smiles. Some people on PL had his act pegged, and I didn't believe it.

I do now. :yabbem:

My info is all based on what I have seen on LPF, I have never been on laserchat nor do I really see the need. There is more than enough info to keep me busy for years here on LPF .

I can't base anything off of something that happened on Laserchat because I have no idea what has occured there and it would be 3rd party info, so my thoughts, opinions and insights are purely based on what I have seen here on LPF. It's the only fair way I know to compare them both based on what I have seen first hand. I hope what you say about Kenom isn't true, but I certainly wouldn't have enough first hand info to know for sure. Regardless if it's true or not I really hope CJ's unfortunate incident helps others to avoid getting caught in the middle of this issue. He certainly didn't belong in the middle of it and paid the price, he seems to have realized at least part of his mistake and has apologized for it. He is certainly welcome to form his own decisions on the two parties in question, I just hope he does so from first hand info between the two instead of taking heresay as fact (which it rarely is).

If Kenom has an issue with something Laserbee did, he really needs to grow a pair and call him out on it directly. If he's unwilling to call him out directly on the issue then let it drop and move on. This underhanded crap just doesn't fly for long.

 

[Tech_Junkie]

If Kenom has an issue with something Laserbee did, he really needs to grow a pair and call him out on it directly. If he's unwilling to call him out directly on the issue then let it drop and move on. This underhanded crap just doesn't fly for long.

I agree completely. :beer:

 

[00Giorge]

I agree also, but I think if there is a problem that it should be taken care of in PM'S and not out in the open, so it doesn't drag other members into to middle of it when it's no one elses business except for the ones involved. Just opinion!:beer:

 

[WLHostage]

I agree also, but I think if there is a problem that it should be taken care of in PM'S and not out in the open, so it doesn't drag other members into to middle of it when it's no one elses business except for the ones involved. Just opinion!:beer:

That is how it should have been handled initially. Unfortunately it has already been made a public specticle at this point. If they want to settle it via PM's that's fine by me, but since it's already been made a public issue I don't see any problem with the confrontation occuring publicly either as long as it occurs between the two parties in question.

I don't think the problem is that the issue was brought up publicly, I think LPF is generally pretty open about handling issues brought up in regards to vendors. I think the issue is that the appropriate parties weren't the ones addressing the issue. Either way in my opinion this issue is null and void unless Kenom makes an open statement in regards to what occured with supporting evidence for his claims. Without being able to prove the claims making any sort of statement against Laserbee would simply be pointless as he has already blatantly lied in regards to Laserbee's products. No offence to Kenom, but based on his behavior in the past towards Laserbee, I simply cannot take his word at face value without proof of his accusations. For all I know Kenom may be a stand up guy, but for some reason it is obvious that he is simply unable to be objective when dealing with Laserbee.

 

[ped]

I think all this should be drawn to a close and topic locked. Both sides have had thier say.

 

[lasersbee]

I think all this should be drawn to a close and topic locked. Both sides have had thier say.

Sorry to disagree with you.... but the problem lies with the
2 main parties involved... and C_J is not one of them...

I'm sorry.... but I have been accused of dirty and unethical business
practices and we (the Forum Community) haven't heard from the 2nd
main party involved on those Issues.... IMO


Jerry

 

[Tech_Junkie]

I agree also, but I think if there is a problem that it should be taken care of in PM'S and not out in the open, so it doesn't drag other members into to middle of it when it's no one elses business except for the ones involved. Just opinion!:beer:

It was, but then it erupted again, some people were banned, and then both parties apologized publicly. But for some reason Kens side keeps rearing its ugly head. The biggest thing that keeps the flame lit is the "Kenometer Posse" logo in peoples sig. This termed was coined by Jerry to describe Kens minions. Now they wear it like a badge. I actually PM Avery about it for two reasons. One, you're not suppose to advertise for a company in your sig. Goes against the TOS. Secondly its obviously a jab at Jerry, which can bring nothing but negativity. I knew this wouldn't be over.

Please dont think I'm sticking up for Jerry. Like I said earlier they both have dirt under their nails. Jerry lost his cool once and got banned for it too. But, he doesnt use propaganda, or other people to screw with Ken. If he did, you would see me first in line. The only reason I'm getting involved now, is that Kens BS is getting people banned now. His little control games are getting out of hand, and other people are getting hurt by it. I wish these people would wake up to the fact their empathy is being exploited and used to Kens benefit. Ken is not a victim. He is some guy you talk to on the internet, and nothing more. He is responsible for his own life, just like the rest of us. I bet I have less money than him, and I have never asked for anything here. In fact I'd wager I've given more free stuff away then Ken ever has. I'm not tooting my horn, just showing you a real man takes care of his own business. Ken is by far not the poor victim he portrays.

 

[00Giorge]

Thanks T_J, I missed all of that. I have read some of the threads but not all.

But I think some people need fight their own battles and not have someone do it for them. Jerry has always been nice to me and I don't see any members getting nasty on Jerrys behalf like Jay did for Ken and I just think that's wrong for someone to do that.

If Ken has something to say he should just come out and say it instead of talking about it some where else and having other members cut down Jerry and getting banned for it.

I sorry that's just bullchit!

Just my opinion!

Jeff

 

[lasersbee]

You couldent be more wrong T_J. Jerry coined it to make fun of us on another forum, same forum in which he attacks LPF calling it a shithole full of babies and calling c0ld a retard... We flipped it and use it against him, nothing wrong there. It is NOT there to advertise for kenometers. Its for proud owners of kenometers, and the members of Jerries aligated posse... If you want to call it as such, you also cant put laserbee in your sig to say you have one because it would be "advertising" for him.

Sorry TJ but you are flat out wrong here man

Got a Kenometer? Proud of it? PM me for details!

Do you own a Kenometer..... If not your argument is moot...


Jerry

 

[Don't Laze Me Bro]

Do you own a Kenometer..... If not your argument is moot...


Jerry

Note the Or in the posse as you yourself have placed a few of us JERRY.