Lasers, Optics, and Firearms

[DarkSide]

Anyone into firearms and knowledgable in applying Lasers and Scopes? Been tinkering with a few different configurations and platforms lately. Experts in the crowd?


BTW - Hello to LPF!

 

[qumefox]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm sure someone knowledgeable will probably chime in eventually, however it's not a subject that most builders here will have much experience in. The construction requirements for weapon mounted lasers, as far as durability, reliability, maintaining accuracy, and shock proofing are just beyond most hobbyist's expertise.

 

[123splat]

There are litterally thousands of targeting lasers out there for all types of firearms, ranging from sub Watt red dots to big mean blues and greens. Physical shock is not as much a durability issue as you might think in as much as the shock is in one direction. The big problem seems to be with putting them on air-rifles and pistols. For some reason, unknown to me, they have a bi-directional recoil shock that plays havoc with optics and laser diode internals... go figure.

All that aside, let me throw this out for your consideration: If you are in a situation where you want/need rapid target acquisition (usually low light conditions), Do you really think it is such a cool idea to be waving around a beacon that says "Hey, I'm over here! Shoot over here!"?

B.T.W. I've got a couple of pistol laser sights. Little, low power, red dot types. Sitting in a drawer, somewhere. And a '200 mW' (ha ha ha, more like 30-50 mW) long gun greenie that I use for a star pointer. Seemed like a neat idea at the time, cool toy and all that, but just don't see much use for them on firearms now. IR spotter and NightVision system, now that is a different issue all together, BUT,, If the other guy has NVS too, yer screwed...

 

[DarkSide]

Let me explain further: I have a few lasers on my pistols and rifles. Its great for the Hollywood effect in fair conditions. The purpose and project I'm working on now is designed to work on a sniper platform. No less than 700 meters and beyond with match grade .308 . I can pull this off with a mil spec optic (trijicon TA55a). I have a 200mw 625nm with a home built buffer system and multi-function tap switch. I have managed to get the scope, laser, and rifle to complete zero at 100 meters. Problems appear at 500 meters and beyond. I can light up a target for a millisecond and and discharge in daylight, 50-65 deg F and have relatively fair results.. No current laser mounted on a rifle application has lasted to date due to recoil. Stuff you see on varuious websites is crap at best. They either get destroyed from recoil or i have a few millisecond delay on most of the civilian use stuff. Add cold weather and dark conditions and most applications fail completely. And if they do work most create a beam that can paint a tank or small home at 700 meters:wave:. I managed to put a an insulation jacket over the laser barrel and it has gme an extra 20-30 min of for target acquisition and ballistics calculations. I added optics to the laser to lower the beam divergence ( limited) And recoil is always an issue unless your first shot is your last. In a real life "non civilian" application this configuration will not work. Daytime and warm conditions a beginner can hit a 10"x10" paper target. Now your non civilian application chooses not to use laser optics due to performance reasons i mentioned above. R&D is applied mostly to target painting and acquisition for air support just to name one. 445nm and below work well but when observing a target at 800 meters the dot almost has a scattering effect unless you have a target that's totally black. I have yet to apply an IR laser and from what i have researched both insulation and optics is a bit more extensive with within the IR nm.
The potential is obvious perhaps someone with experience in cold weather laser applications and optics can chime in.

If interested i will make a video next time. My cell takes good video cell when looking down a scope and capturing my view of the target that's been painted by a 445 and 625nm. :gun:

 

[anselm]

625nm

I'd like to see a video or pictures of that wavelength very much, as it seems to
me it would be rather "orangy" or even "yellow" kind of red.
We mostly deal with 660nm red, and we start to drool at 635nm because it is
considered much more visible and more beautiful color red.
Getting an even shorter wavelength red is something a lot of us would be interested in.

Is that a direct diode laser? Where from and how much?

Sorry for this threadjack, and I cannot really contribute to your original issue/question.

Oh and welcome to the LPF!

 

[DarkSide]

splat - to address your comment recoil on a .308 AR helps on a scope laser application to a limit. Anything higher in cal. I think most of the junk would fall off after a few rounds. Housings and rail mounts begin separating even with some high grade blue loctite. I torque everything to mil spec on my builds and accessories still moves a millimeter + after a day.

 

[DarkSide]

Anselm - My apologies . Its a 532nm im referring to. I have seen yellow/orange lase and i really couldn't see the beam/dot all to well. Is it in the IR range ? 808 with night vision works well at a few hundred yards. 700-800 yards and the beam begins to scatter and widen. I'm not nearly smart enough to discuss atmospheric variables . Simply said if its going to rain close up shop. And take out the megaW Blue 445 LightSaber!

Thanks for the correction

S

 

[qumefox]

At 700 yards, durability aside, your still going to have the same issues that come up with a scope.

 

[123splat]

DarkSide, I've only played with them in very limited use, close range, NOT serious shooting (M-14 .308, AR-15 .223, various pistols mostly .45acp). Reliability wise, haven't put that many rounds through with them, but never had a mount go kachew and the lasers seem to hold zero. I've just not applied them as seriously as you have. I still think it is a worthless and fairly dumb idea to put a siting laser on a combat weapon (that is unless it is the other guy's weapon).
Thanks for the info on longrange use.