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FrozenGate by Avery

IR filter, or no?

People make a fuss over it because they are ignorant ;D To be perfectly honest the green output is more dangerous thant he IR output .
 





Yeah, aslong as you watch for reflections and don't get it in your eye you fine.

What is it anyway, 20mW ?
 
That's not too bad then, if you catch any reflections you'll probably be safe, not saying you shouldn't be careful, but any quick reflections probably won't do any damage, except leave and after image.

Also it will leak some IR all DPSS (Diode Pumped Solid State) lasers do leak a little IR even when filtered .
 
RA_pierce said:
IR leakage isn't very dangerous at all.
Click to expand...

For what definition of "dangerous"?

IR can be more dangerous than visible light, because it doesn't trigger the blink reflex. Green DPSS lasers are only 20-25% efficient, which means that the IR laser diode powering them is 4-5 times stronger than the emitted power. If it isn't filtered correctly some of that power comes out of the aperture with the green light. Of course its focal length will be considerably different, but that actually makes it less safe, because you might look at a blurred-out green laser and not realize that the IR is precisely focused at that distance.

In the end, it costs little or nothing to respect the tools you work with, but you can pay a high price for disrespecting them. There's no need to go out and buy tinfoil hats or anything, but still... if you treat potentially dangerous tools with the proper respect, you minimize the hurt when they cross the line from 'potentially' to 'actually'.



Diachi said:
People make a fuss over it because they are ignorant ;D To be perfectly honest the green output is more dangerous thant he IR output .
Click to expand...

"Guns are more dangerous than knives, so it's ignorant to be cautious with knives."

Interesting logic.


I forget which forum it was, a guy shows up all scared thinking he'd blinded himself for life. (That part happens all the time, on all forums, it seems.) He'd dropped his filterless green laser on the ground, and it knocked the crystal loose. Thinking it was completely dead, he looked right into the lens with it powered up, and his vision fuzzed out. He made a couple of dozen frantic posts, went to see an eye doctor, and finally returned to tell us he had no permanent damage, but he could have lost his eyesight permanently. In the event of permanent damage, do you think he'd be happier he listened to somebody telling him he was "ignorant", or happier he'd spent $16 on a fucking IR filter?

Vedant002, people 'make a fuss' because they realize we are each responsible for our own safety and they draw the line where they are comfortable. Don't let some stranger on the internet convince you to settle for less safety than you are comfortable with.
 
the IR is not as dangerous as the green, end of ( unless it's and actual IR laser ) Most of the IR is contained in the crystals, or stopped by the lenses ( especially if they are AR coated for a specific wavelength ).

The IR generally diverges rapidly aswell.

Just to mention, none of my green lasers are IR filtered, but even the '35mW' labby ( Actual power 50-60mW ) doesn't have a very high IR output, probably about 10mW IR and 50-60mW green .
 
Foobario said:
[highlight]For what definition of "dangerous"[/highlight]?

IR can be more dangerous than visible light, because it doesn't trigger the blink reflex.  Green DPSS lasers are only 20-25% efficient, which means that the IR laser diode powering them is 4-5 times stronger than the emitted power.  If it isn't filtered correctly some of that power comes out of the aperture with the green light.  Of course its focal length will be considerably different, but that actually makes it less safe, because you might look at a blurred-out green laser and not realize that the IR is precisely focused at that distance.

In the end, it costs little or nothing to respect the tools you work with, but you can pay a high price for disrespecting them.  There's no need to go out and buy tinfoil hats or anything, but still... if you treat potentially dangerous tools with the proper respect, you minimize the hurt when they cross the line from 'potentially' to 'actually'.
Click to expand...

By "not very dangerous" I mean, it is not harmful... I have said this many times, I have tested it myself, and other more experienced and knowledgeable members will agree.

Yes, DPSS systems are not very efficient but there are many factors that reduce the danger of IR leakage. IR does not focus well with typical lenses used in the collimating optics used in pointers. It diverges more. Also, the leakage is only a small percentage of the power of the total output. A 100mW green DPSS laser will typically output no more than 30mW of excess IR. Another limiting factor is the aperture. The aperture blocks most of the IR because of the wide angle at which it diverges. So the total output of IR leakage that makes it past the aperture for a 100mW green will be about 10-20mW. 20mW with a diameter of 6 inches is not harmful to your eyes. You get more exposure to IR if you stand outside on a sunny day and look at the ground.

Yes, IR does not trigger the blink reflex, and yes it is dangerous like any laser light. But the amount we are dealing with here (what? 10mW at most? Probably closer to 3 or 5mW...) is such a small amount with so many factors limiting the hazard.

The thing is, I never said "IR lasers are not dangerous." I said "IR leakage is not dangerous."
And IR is no more or less dangerous than visible laser light.
I'm not saying lasers should be used irresponsibly, I'm saying that the fuss over IR leakage is unnecessary.


So to summarize:
IR leakage is not dangerous because:
1. It is mostly blocked by the aperture.
2. It diverges more.
3. The resulting output is of negligible power (30mW in the most extreme cases).
4. Like any low powered laser, it is only harmful if you stare into it.

The green output is more dangerous.
 
Sure, "more experienced and knowledgeable members" know all kinds of things. That doesn't mean you give random newbies the same advice you give someone with more experience. A good litmus test for some of these questions is "if they had to ask... ?". If someone working on their first laser has to ask what is safe and what isn't, it's probably a good idea to give them enough information to make a qualified decision, maybe even to hedge on the side of safety. It can't hurt, but the alternative can.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man probably feels like a goddam idiot every time he sees the two-eyed man walk by.
 
Foobario said:
Sure, "more experienced and knowledgeable members" know all kinds of things.  That doesn't mean you give random newbies the same advice you give someone with more experience.  A good litmus test for some of these questions is "if they had to ask... ?".  If someone working on their first laser has to ask what is safe and what isn't, it's probably a good idea to give them enough information to make a qualified decision, maybe even to hedge on the side of safety.  It can't hurt, but the alternative can.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man probably feels like a goddam idiot every time he sees the two-eyed man walk by.
Click to expand...

Foobario, calm down.
This is no place to start drama. Let's be mature.  :)
This is meant for discussion, not argument.

Again, I never said "look into your laser!" or "neglect safety measures when using dangerous tools!"

The whole guns and knives analogy is completely irrelevant.
The logic we use simply says, the amount of IR that his laser is outputting is not hazardous to his vision. Therefore, it is unnecessary to install an IR filter.

No where in there does it say "neglect safety precautions."

When using any dangerous tool it is recommended to use caution.
If Vedant finds it in his (I'm assuming he is male) best interest to install the IR filter, good for him. I never said he shouldn't. I said it wasn't necessary.

If that story about the guy blinding himself is true, then that still does not prove IR leakage is dangerous.
All it says is that when the bare diode is pumping 200mW of invisible light into your eyes, your eyesight suffers.
Looking into a laser beam is a terrible way to show people you have no common sense.

But unless Vedant knocks the crystals loose and sticks the laser in his eye, which I'm sure he won't, he will be fine, with or without the filter.

If his laser was outputting a significant amount of IR I would recommend installation of the filter. But I seriously doubt it is outputting more than 10mW.


Again, I will summarize:
Setting aside the dangers of the green laser light (that's a whole different story)...

IF a laser is outputting more than 30mW of excess IR and it is in a well collimated beam and you point the laser in your eye, IR light is dangerous.

If your laser is outputting less than 30mW of IR light in a widely dispersed beam and you do not point it in your eye, you are pretty safe without an IR filter.

Since the latter is the case, an IR filter is not needed, but other safety measures are required to operate the instrument safely and responsibly. And when dealing with higher powers it is best to take extra safety measures if one is uncomfortable with the threat that lasers may pose.

THE END
 
Vedant002 said:
so no one has a guide?
Click to expand...

Well, there's no particular guide. I personally have no experience with the Elite lasers, but I'm assuming that if you can get the aperture cap off, you just have to stick it in there.
 
Vedant002 said:
no picture guide? for any laser i does not matter if it was an elite.
Click to expand...

Well, Here's a guide I made for CNI lasers. You can probably apply the same concept to your Elite. In your case it may just be easier to just glue it in though.
Hope it helps! :)
 
that is not a picture guide on how to install the filter. it just tells me where to get them, i already have alot.
 
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