Infrared Lasers: Do They All Burn?

[Ablaze]

I was saying that I recommend 940nm or so because I know that that wavelength can be seen by most digital cameras, even cheap ones. There is no need to use an IR filter from most cameras, you should be able to see the IR on the screen without taking a picture. An IR filter is used by people to turn a camera into a night vision camera during the daylight, but if you're trying to use your camera at night you shouldn't need one. However, I bought an IR filter lens for my camera a couple years back for ~$5 off of ebay.

Wavelength doesn't effect safety, except that visible light is safer than invisible light. Safety is primarily effected by the power (brightness) of the laser, which is the mW rating.

 

[BrittanyGulden]

i was saying that i recommend 940nm or so because i know that that wavelength can be seen by most digital cameras, even cheap ones. There is no need to use an ir filter from most cameras, you should be able to see the ir on the screen without taking a picture. An ir filter is used by people to turn a camera into a night vision camera during the daylight, but if you're trying to use your camera at night you shouldn't need one. However, i bought an ir filter lens for my camera a couple years back for ~$5 off of ebay.

**********940nm? When yous said "digital camera" are you talking about "stand still camera's" or both video cam's & stand stills. Okay, so i assume digital cameras can see a "range" of nm's vs a single digit/number like 940mn. Anyone know what it is? Is 940nm actually the nm range number most sensitive to digital camera's or is 940nm the "closest" to the "most sensative range number that a digital camera can pick up?" i assume "nm" doesn't come in whatever number you want, meaning like 1, 2, 3, 4 .... I assume it comes something like 10nm, 20nm, 30nm ..... Maybe it starts at 100nm and goes up from there, but you get the idea.

Got it, will not need ir filter. So what is it exactly that is built in the lens of the camera that actually allows someone to view ir? I assume there's another type of filter?

Wavelength doesn't effect safety, except that visible light is safer than invisible light. Safety is primarily effected by the power (brightness) of the laser, which is the mw rating.

thankyou,

**************mw, like noted before the lasers that i have seen on here are rated "by the mile" vs by the yard or foot. I assume i wouldn't need too powerful of a laser. Now "mw" range from 1mw to 1000mw correct? Anyone know distance per "mw?"

meaning, 1mw = 1 foot, or.....?





* WOOPS, NOT ALL OF MY WORDS WERE PUT IN CAPS. I NOTED ON A FEW THINGS IN YOUR PARAGRAPH ABOVE^ I PUT ************ BY THEM

THANKS AGAIN!

 

[Ablaze]

handheld lasers in the IR range can go up to 5000mW (iow 5w).

that nm that lasers come in is dictated by the molecular composition of the crystal they are made out of, and there are only a few types that are cheap.

I just don't know if cameras can see 1064nm. Maybe they can. 1064nm is probably the cheapest color you can find per mw.

mw is the amount of raw power it puts out, distance it appears to travel is a rather inexact measurement since it will look like a laser travels further in the night than in daytime. 5mw of green is clearly visable within resonable distances, so with 15mw of red and 25mw of blue, and 50mw of purple. IR... it depends on the camera.

It will be very hard to find answers on which cameras see IR the best, and what range they can see, since none of them advertise that ability. I can't give you specific answers about that, and I don't know anyone who can.

As an additional point, I would prefer if you didn't put part of your reply inside the quote box. I, and most people, tend to ignore what's in the quote box without reading it.

 

[TheTeslaWarrior]

1064nm is probably the cheapest color you can find per mw.

Wow! I never knew 1064nm DPSS lasers are cheaper and higher power than the 808nm pump source they use! Good thing efficiencies are often greater than 100%.

 

[ARG]

1064nm is probably the cheapest color you can find per mw.

I think a better word would be wavelength; since we are talking about IR and not the visible spectrum.

 

[bennett326]

holy crap since when is 1064nm a color i thought it was invisible

EDIT wait is 1064 a black laser ? :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[sopark4000]

808nm is a much cheaper wavelength to find.

 

[BrittanyGulden]

handheld lasers in the IR range can go up to 5000mW (iow 5w).

that nm that lasers come in is dictated by the molecular composition of the crystal they are made out of, and there are only a few types that are cheap.

I just don't know if cameras can see 1064nm. Maybe they can. 1064nm is probably the cheapest color you can find per mw.

mw is the amount of raw power it puts out, distance it appears to travel is a rather inexact measurement since it will look like a laser travels further in the night than in daytime. 5mw of green is clearly visable within resonable distances, so with 15mw of red and 25mw of blue, and 50mw of purple. IR... it depends on the camera.

It will be very hard to find answers on which cameras see IR the best, and what range they can see, since none of them advertise that ability. I can't give you specific answers about that, and I don't know anyone who can.

As an additional point, I would prefer if you didn't put part of your reply inside the quote box. I, and most people, tend to ignore what's in the quote box without reading it.

iow? I assume that means X 1000

1064nw is a Green Laser, correct

Gotchya. So there is no way to measure distance because it varies camera to camera and it is "different" between day and night? I do know I will be using A Green laser & at night. If I figure exactly what I am going to be using as a Power Source, there is no "guess" to atleast get me close to the range I want?

Will do.



Maybe you didn't see this than:

"So in my application, I DO NOT want an IR filter. So than what exactly is in the Camera lense that allows me to see IR?" I assume some other type of filter?

I am asking because if It is some type of "filter or lense" than I wouldn't have to actually use a video cam or camera. I could just apply the "filter or lense" to one side of my scope.



I will be doing some digging around to see if I can find a "Video Cam or Camera" dedicated forum. LOL, I am hopping forum to forum. I started off on Diyma.com than to Nasoic.com > LegacyGT.com > CandlePowerForum.com > LaserPointerForum > and now to some type of camera geared forum.

Unfortunately, there are no good resources around where I live. Closest "info" I have are a few small Gun Shops, Best Buy, and radio shack. Even more unfortunate, the majority of employees there are women

 

[sopark4000]

kill me now :banghead:

 

[Ablaze]

Some trolls have shown up to try to derail the thread, but I'll try to give you useful advice anyway.

iow = in other words.

532nm is green. If you look at that color chart I posted you can see what nm corresponds to which color. Any animal will see you if you shine a green laser at them and they'll run fast, you would probably be better off not using a green laser.

Almost any regular digital camera will see IR without needing a filter. When I say digital camera that means either a video camera or a still camera.

 

[BrittanyGulden]

Some trolls have shown up to try to derail the thread, but I'll try to give you useful advice anyway.

iow = in other words.

532nm is green. If you look at that color chart I posted you can see what nm corresponds to which color. Any animal will see you if you shine a green laser at them and they'll run fast, you would probably be better off not using a green laser.

Almost any regular digital camera will see IR without needing a filter. When I say digital camera that means either a video camera or a still camera.

I understand any newer digital camera will see IR without needing a filter. So, what exactly is in the Lense that allows you to see an IR laser?

Meaning, take an IR laser and turn it on and the naked eye won't be able to see it. But now, when you view through some type of camera (assuming it doesn't have an IR filter) now you can see it. So what's in the Camera that allows this?


*I am not sure if this was on all of the "How To's" I came across, but when it said "take camera & remove IR filter" it also said "now you need to place in another filter that will NOT allow any visible light through, ONLY IR light. So to do this, you go and buy some film like 120mm and have it developed right away and BAM theres your IR Filter that ONLY allows IR throught and NOT any visible light



SO! Is that the "special thing" that is in Cameras that allow you to see IR. I assume not but maybe I am wrong.

I want to know this because if it's something simple as a filter, than why not just apply the filter to my scope that I already have.

 

[Ablaze]

Most digital cameras shine an IR light when they auto focus just before taking the picture, the cameras have the ability to see IR on the display screen because their optics pick it up.

Some cameras filter that out of the picture. I own a random digital camera and have a lens similar to this the filter filters out normal light and allows only IR through. I can take some interesting pictures with it, but I can see IR light just fine without it. (through my camera's screen)

Unless your scope is digital it won't allow you to see IR. The digital screen in a camera sees the IR and retransmits it as visible light.

 

[Sigurthr]

The CCD light sensitive device inside the camera that captures light and records an image of the light that came in, is able to see IR. Humans are not able to see IR just as we are not able to see UV.

Some cameras have a filter or a coating on the lens which stops IR from getting in to the CCD device. It is there because if it was not there, then more light (or different colors) would show up in the pictures you take than what your eyes can see and the picture would look wrong. For example; the Nintendo Wii uses an array of IR LEDs, if you took a picture of someone using a Wii with the array facing the camera, in the picture it would look lit up, while the naked eye would see nothing.

If you want to see an IR laser's light and your camera has an IR filter (a filter that stops IR), you would have to remove it. However, most cameras do not have this filter.

The How To's you found look to be about modifying a FILM camera to see only IR, a form of night-vision photography. In this case you want to block out all visible light and only leave IR. This is not necessary for seeing an IR laser, and is rather specific about what kinds of filters and film you would use. It is much simpler to just use a digital camera. Besides, if you're in the dark then there is no reason to filter out visible light.

An IR laser will work fine for cross hairs, and having a focus lens would be a bonus, but you would only really need to have it focussed to infinity. Laser range isn't really dependant on how powerfull the laser is. Laser range is determined by how much stuff the laser beam has to go through. If there is a lot of dust or moisture in the air, the laser beam won't go as far. Light travels until it is stopped (absorbed) by something, it doesn't matter what kind of light it is... an LED, a flashlight, a laser, a microwave, and even a radio transmitter all produce forms of light and all these types have this property.

If you want to use a digital camera as a night vision scope you will need an illuminator as well as cross hairs. The illuminator should be a wavelength of IR that you and your prey cannot see, just like the crosshairs. This time you want the light source to be unfocused (not a laser, or a laser who's beam ahs been diverged (spread out)) so that it covers a wide area. If you set up IR laser cross hairs and no illuminator, all you will see is the crosshairs! You don't need an image intensifier tube if you have strong IR illumination. Night Vision equipment has an IIT so that it will work off of reflected star light, and an IR illuminator so it will work when there is no star light.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Ablaze]

It looks like TheTesla, bennitt, and ARG are all in some sort of troll club. They've all given each other upvotes for their troll posts in this thread, presumably in some kind of attempt to be able to downvote me again.

People like that make it difficult to do anything useful around here.

 

[BrittanyGulden]

Most digital cameras shine an IR light when they auto focus just before taking the picture, the cameras have the ability to see IR on the display screen because their optics pick it up.

Some cameras filter that out of the picture. I own a random digital camera and have a lens similar to this the filter filters out normal light and allows only IR through. I can take some interesting pictures with it, but I can see IR light just fine without it. (through my camera's screen)

Unless your scope is digital it won't allow you to see IR. The digital screen in a camera sees the IR and retransmits it as visible light.

On your first paragraph:

So where do they shine the IR light through? The lense itself?
So whats in the optics that allow the optics to "pick IR up" ?


No, scope is not digital.

So it's a matter of "re-transmitting" and our eyes can't do this. lame.

 

[BrittanyGulden]

The CCD light sensitive device inside the camera that captures light and records an image of the light that came in, is able to see IR. Humans are not able to see IR just as we are not able to see UV.

Some cameras have a filter or a coating on the lens which stops IR from getting in to the CCD device. It is there because if it was not there, then more light (or different colors) would show up in the pictures you take than what your eyes can see and the picture would look wrong. For example; the Nintendo Wii uses an array of IR LEDs, if you took a picture of someone using a Wii with the array facing the camera, in the picture it would look lit up, while the naked eye would see nothing.

If you want to see an IR laser's light and your camera has an IR filter (a filter that stops IR), you would have to remove it. However, most cameras do not have this filter.

The How To's you found look to be about modifying a FILM camera to see only IR, a form of night-vision photography. In this case you want to block out all visible light and only leave IR. This is not necessary for seeing an IR laser, and is rather specific about what kinds of filters and film you would use. It is much simpler to just use a digital camera. Besides, if you're in the dark then there is no reason to filter out visible light.

An IR laser will work fine for cross hairs, and having a focus lens would be a bonus, but you would only really need to have it focussed to infinity. Laser range isn't really dependant on how powerfull the laser is. Laser range is determined by how much stuff the laser beam has to go through. If there is a lot of dust or moisture in the air, the laser beam won't go as far. Light travels until it is stopped (absorbed) by something, it doesn't matter what kind of light it is... an LED, a flashlight, a laser, a microwave, and even a radio transmitter all produce forms of light and all these types have this property.

If you want to use a digital camera as a night vision scope you will need an illuminator as well as cross hairs. The illuminator should be a wavelength of IR that you and your prey cannot see, just like the crosshairs. This time you want the light source to be unfocused (not a laser, or a laser who's beam ahs been diverged (spread out)) so that it covers a wide area. If you set up IR laser cross hairs and no illuminator, all you will see is the crosshairs! You don't need an image intensifier tube if you have strong IR illumination. Night Vision equipment has an IIT so that it will work off of reflected star light, and an IR illuminator so it will work when there is no star light.

Hope that clears things up.

So the device that is in Camera's that allows for IR is the CCD? So in theory, I could slap a CCD onto my either end of my Rifle Scope and that would allow IR?

I am not sure if you understand what I am getting at, but it would be really convenient if I could just use the scope I already have & acquire a CCD & mount it to my scope & use that instead of buying a Camera and going that route. However, my scope is NOT digital so I am not sure if that work or not. I am not sure how my Scope matched W/ a CCD would "Re transmit" to view IR.


I understand the whole "IR ordeal now." Here is the problem, The guy that did the tutorial on "How to use camera to see Night Vision" SHOULD HAVE re-labeled his title to something else. Let me elaborate, basically what he was doing was showing people how to take a camera apart & modify it so when you took pictures in the DAYLIGHT they would show up like they were taken at NIGHT. That guy NEEDS to re-title his tutorial to something like "how to modify camera so when you take pictures in the day, they show up like you took them at night (like nightvision).

See the difference? His application was taking pictures in the Daytime but having the images show up like you took them at night. My application is totally different.


Infinity? Not sure what you mean by that.

Gotchya, I will check out what wavelengths fox's and coyotes & coons can not see along with us humans.

That was my next question. I am going to be out in the elements. Most of my hunting will be down at 10 below fahrenheit in snowy conditions. I need a laser that will penetrate snow, sleet, dust, and anything else the wind blows around.


Hold up, not a laser? What do you mean by the term "Laser." Let me elaborate, in the past I have been using a combination of MANY LED lights. Problem was distance, it was only good for short range. Than I started to use reflectors from various flashlights to try and "beam" out the light farther. Well, bottom line is having 100+ LED's & reflectors mounted off my scope just isn't practical. So, I need something to "beam" out there farther to illuminate.

So an IR laser correct? But you are saying, no not a laser? So you are just saying a I need a more powerful Diode? I thought that's what a laser was? Or is a "laser" a term to describe the focus?

I am using the term "laser" as a way to illuminate, not beam. Maybe I should have said, "I need a more powerful illuminator so I should look into a more powerful *diode*." Correct?





Yes, however, so WHY did they come up with IIT's when you could just use a powerful IR laser Illuminator as a light source?

From my understanding is that IIT's can *amplifer* better and I believe with the new Generation 4 NV they have out now, you DO NOT need a natural light source like starlight/moonlight while with IR you NEED a natural light source.

I still don't understand what's the whole big deal with IIT's when you could just with an IR laser illuminator.


Not sure if you seen my earlier thread, but really why is this? Is it because of the whole "I see you, but you can't see me, oh wait, sh*t, you can see me" thing?

Meaning with an IIT, you can use one witout anyone being able to pick it up with their device while with IR you are can't go "undetected"

But I guess in my application, I could care less, I dont think any coyotes are guna be runnin around with IIT devices lol. Maybe raccoons, they have the face of a bandit!