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I think they removed the Claimed OD, because the glasses were not up to spec. WL did a CYA move.
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ArcticMyst Security by Avery
If You've Actually Received Your Spyder III Arctic - Post Here
- Thread starter vegas
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Freakin' company is a joke. "Yeah, here are some useless goggles so you can fry your eyes thinking they will protect you". It would have been better to send nothing at all.
I ended up cancelling my order. I ordered on June 22nd and after all the lies, there was just no way I could possibly rely on them to actually meet their next shipping date by the end of September. They haven't been accurate on ANYTHING when it comes to the Arctic, so frankly I didn't feel all that bad about cancelling. I've decided to simply build my own now using one of Jayrobs kits.
Here were my main issues...
Delivery Date: no need to comment on this, we were given at least a dozen different dates on when to expect it, I wouldn't have minded waiting a few months as long as the info we were provided was even remotely accurate.
Divergence: Wasn't what was claimed.
Power: While techinically it was listed as <1 watt (ie less than 1watt), it was advertised as a 1watt laser. I don't need it to be exactly 1watt, but I don't consider 700mw to be even remotely close to the 1watt advertised. They should be selling this as a 700mw laser, not a 1watt laser. So far I have only seen one laser that beat the 1watt mark, most being between 700-800mw. At 700mw that's only 70% of the advertised power. That's like buying a car only to find out it can't go faster than 40mph, you'd be pissed. But if you kicked out the front and back windows to reduce the drag and rolled all the side windows down you might actually get up to 50mph
.
Safety Goggles: They made all these changes to the arctic to make it safer, yet somehow missed the most significant issue to safety? The safety goggles were supposed to be rated at OD5, but have been tested to only produce roughly OD3. Personally I would rather not have safety goggles at that point, at least then I wouldn't be counting on them to protect me and think I was safe when in reality I wasn't.
TEM00: I understand there are arguments about how to define this, but plain and simple if the laser does not produce a TEM00 image on the wall when I use it, then I don't consider it a TEM00 laser and it should not be advertised as one. I know all the diodes suffer from this same issue, but advertising it as TEM00 when it clearly is not is just one more area of false advertising.
Problems: People have reported multiple problems with the actual lasers ranging from focusing issues, power issues, lense issues, missing components (ie lens kits, goggles, etc...). You couldn't even count on getting the items your odered, and even if you were lucky enough to get them the chances that they would actually work out of the box were slim. Yes, the people here at LPF found ways to fix the majority of the problems but that does not make it a good product, a good product would be one that worked when you got it, not one you had to fix before it would function properly, oh and fixing it yourself instead of waiting some unknown number of months would void the warranty. I believe somewhere over 90% of the people who posted about their lasers indicated problems of one sort or another with it. Frankly that's a very poor track record.
I had ordered the Arcitic, the lense and optics kits, a total of 3 goggles were to be shipped as well, roughly a $400 order, not huge I know but I pretty much ordered everything they offered. Then we find out the laser isn't to spec, the lenses are not very good quality, and really the only lense I was interested in was the focusing lense, so with a build your own kit I don't need a lense set as the laser is focusable. The goggles are worthless, I would have had to throw out the 3 sets I had ordered making them a worthless upgrade, but I certainly couldn't get a hold of anyone to remove them from my order. The only things I haven't heard anything bad about at this point are the Optics kit, and the lens pen cleaner, neither of which there was much of any information about yet.
As for contacting Wicked Lasers, after I placed my order I was able to contact them via phone once to add to my order (shortly after placing it). After that I never once got a single response from them until I cancelled my order. I literally tried to contact them probably 50 different times, through every avenue possible. Phone mailboxes were all full, apparently they don't bother to check and clear their messages EVER. I never got a single response to any of my emails or tickets submitted, and depsite having tried 6 different email addressess I was never able to get a confirmation email to their official forums.
Grats to those who got their lasers and enjoy them. Personally I will NEVER do business with Wicked Lasers again. I simply choose not to support companies with poor business practices like false advertising, blatantly lying to your client base, and what appears to be a purposeful lack of communication (aka stonewalling). I'm sure they have reasons for what they do, but no matter those reasons those business practices simply are not acceptable to me, so I won't help support any company that chooses to use those as their business model. They had so much BS flying around everywhere you couldn't count on any information you were provided. I finally had enough and after cancelling my order that was the first response I received from their support department since placing my order. It was promptly refunded and the funds were back in my account within 2-3 days, the only thing they did right in my entire experience with them was the refund.
Here were my main issues...
Delivery Date: no need to comment on this, we were given at least a dozen different dates on when to expect it, I wouldn't have minded waiting a few months as long as the info we were provided was even remotely accurate.
Divergence: Wasn't what was claimed.
Power: While techinically it was listed as <1 watt (ie less than 1watt), it was advertised as a 1watt laser. I don't need it to be exactly 1watt, but I don't consider 700mw to be even remotely close to the 1watt advertised. They should be selling this as a 700mw laser, not a 1watt laser. So far I have only seen one laser that beat the 1watt mark, most being between 700-800mw. At 700mw that's only 70% of the advertised power. That's like buying a car only to find out it can't go faster than 40mph, you'd be pissed. But if you kicked out the front and back windows to reduce the drag and rolled all the side windows down you might actually get up to 50mph
.Safety Goggles: They made all these changes to the arctic to make it safer, yet somehow missed the most significant issue to safety? The safety goggles were supposed to be rated at OD5, but have been tested to only produce roughly OD3. Personally I would rather not have safety goggles at that point, at least then I wouldn't be counting on them to protect me and think I was safe when in reality I wasn't.
TEM00: I understand there are arguments about how to define this, but plain and simple if the laser does not produce a TEM00 image on the wall when I use it, then I don't consider it a TEM00 laser and it should not be advertised as one. I know all the diodes suffer from this same issue, but advertising it as TEM00 when it clearly is not is just one more area of false advertising.
Problems: People have reported multiple problems with the actual lasers ranging from focusing issues, power issues, lense issues, missing components (ie lens kits, goggles, etc...). You couldn't even count on getting the items your odered, and even if you were lucky enough to get them the chances that they would actually work out of the box were slim. Yes, the people here at LPF found ways to fix the majority of the problems but that does not make it a good product, a good product would be one that worked when you got it, not one you had to fix before it would function properly, oh and fixing it yourself instead of waiting some unknown number of months would void the warranty. I believe somewhere over 90% of the people who posted about their lasers indicated problems of one sort or another with it. Frankly that's a very poor track record.
I had ordered the Arcitic, the lense and optics kits, a total of 3 goggles were to be shipped as well, roughly a $400 order, not huge I know but I pretty much ordered everything they offered. Then we find out the laser isn't to spec, the lenses are not very good quality, and really the only lense I was interested in was the focusing lense, so with a build your own kit I don't need a lense set as the laser is focusable. The goggles are worthless, I would have had to throw out the 3 sets I had ordered making them a worthless upgrade, but I certainly couldn't get a hold of anyone to remove them from my order. The only things I haven't heard anything bad about at this point are the Optics kit, and the lens pen cleaner, neither of which there was much of any information about yet.
As for contacting Wicked Lasers, after I placed my order I was able to contact them via phone once to add to my order (shortly after placing it). After that I never once got a single response from them until I cancelled my order. I literally tried to contact them probably 50 different times, through every avenue possible. Phone mailboxes were all full, apparently they don't bother to check and clear their messages EVER. I never got a single response to any of my emails or tickets submitted, and depsite having tried 6 different email addressess I was never able to get a confirmation email to their official forums.
Grats to those who got their lasers and enjoy them. Personally I will NEVER do business with Wicked Lasers again. I simply choose not to support companies with poor business practices like false advertising, blatantly lying to your client base, and what appears to be a purposeful lack of communication (aka stonewalling). I'm sure they have reasons for what they do, but no matter those reasons those business practices simply are not acceptable to me, so I won't help support any company that chooses to use those as their business model. They had so much BS flying around everywhere you couldn't count on any information you were provided. I finally had enough and after cancelling my order that was the first response I received from their support department since placing my order. It was promptly refunded and the funds were back in my account within 2-3 days, the only thing they did right in my entire experience with them was the refund.
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Yes it certainly would have been better at least then You would have known You were not protected. Being told You are protected gives You the false sense that if the Beam was to hit You it would do no Damage. People put their trust in the shades they were provided only to find out the weren't protected, and some could have suffered vision damage already.
LazyBeam
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OD2+ Goggles are not THAT terrible...
We're talking about 7-10mW of the arctic's light getting through even on a direct hit. Sure, it's over the FDA 5mW limit... but it won't fry your eyes and shit all over you corneas either. OD2+ should be OK for looking at the dot and to keep diffuse reflections from damaging your vision or straining your eyes. And a direct hit @ 7-10mW should allow for a good blink reflex.
That being said... they are way underspec and anyone should still invest in another set of better goggles for bystanders, if not for themselves.
We're talking about 7-10mW of the arctic's light getting through even on a direct hit. Sure, it's over the FDA 5mW limit... but it won't fry your eyes and shit all over you corneas either. OD2+ should be OK for looking at the dot and to keep diffuse reflections from damaging your vision or straining your eyes. And a direct hit @ 7-10mW should allow for a good blink reflex.
That being said... they are way underspec and anyone should still invest in another set of better goggles for bystanders, if not for themselves.
I'm clearly going to have to try and track down the thread with the measurements, but the Wicked Lasers "OD5" goggles were actually letting through roughly 10% (ie 100mw) of power with the Arctic. I agree if all you were getting was roughly 10mw, while not ideal it most likely wouldn't be terribly dangerous. But at 100mw of power, that's pretty dangerous.
I'll see if I can track down that thread again, most likely it's from LPF somewhere but I'm not 100% certain of that. Also someone posted the spec sheet they received from WL on the goggles which indicate an OD1 rating for 445nm.
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OD2s will cut ~1W to 10mW? How is that possible? Also by the look of the video I posted, that was waaaay more than 10mW of blue.
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I should of paid more attention in meth class. :yabbem:
While I haven't found the one with actual measurements yet, here is a good comparison that includes the WL goggles just so you can see how much of a failure they are...
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/saftey-goggles-comparison-54927.html
Also please note that in the image showing the WL goggles you can see in the upper right of the lens where it clearly states "190-449nm OD5+ 450-532nm OD6+".
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/saftey-goggles-comparison-54927.html
Also please note that in the image showing the WL goggles you can see in the upper right of the lens where it clearly states "190-449nm OD5+ 450-532nm OD6+".
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I use these ARG - UV, Blu Ray, Argon, Blue, KTP Green Protection ARG - UV, Blu Ray, Argon, Blue, KTP Green Protection [NR-ARG-EN207] - $78.20
I wouldn't trust any other goggle for a 1W laser.
I wouldn't trust any other goggle for a 1W laser.
Those are the same ones I ordered. They work for most of the common ranges and provide great protection. They are rated at OD7, and appear to actually meet that rating unlike the WL goggles which are rated at OD5 and don't appear to come anywhere near that actual rating.
They are clearly more expensive, but you know... there are some things you just don't skimp on. IMO this is one of those things.
Mac'n'cheese - Craft
Laser Eye Surgery - don't ever go for the Dr. offering the cheapest price lol.
Eye protection when using a 1watt laser - don't use the WL goggles
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Those are the ones I have as well. I ordered two pair of the style 60 version back in July. I could wish that they were just a teensy bit larger to fit over my glasses better but they do the job and I don't worry about my eyes when I'm wearing them. I special ordered a 52mm disc of the same material from them and fabricated a filter for my camera as well so when I want to take filtered pictures I don't have to juggle a pair of goggles in one hand and my camera in the other while I try to get the shot.
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Thats a great idea. :bowdown:
LazyBeam
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Yes, WL's rating printed on the goggles is WRONG. That has been established. However, knowing the true limitations of the WL goggles is still valuable. Despite the false advertisement there is still *some* level of protection that is actually worthwhile for some activities.
Is this what you were looking for?
If so, I'm well aware of that chart... I made it. That chart indicates a protection level of nearly OD2 so you're looking at nearly 7-10mW of an Arctic being transmitted. I think someone even used a LPM and measured about 9mW through the goggles, corroborating the measurements. That kind of power level is hardly worth getting your panties in a bunch. How many people here have used ebay 532 pointers or various homemade lasers over 10mW without protection without incident? The best piece of safety gear you have is between your ears.
Honestly, I'm fine with WL Lasershade's ~99% protection but nevertheless purchased OEM OD6 YLW goggles for very close dot viewing and burning.
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Heh. It would have been if I'd done it right.
I knew I wanted a filter that I could adapt to my camera. So....my camera, a Nikon DSLR, takes 52mm filters on the lens that I would use for close up shots of such things as a laser dot. Simple, order a 52mm disc of filter material (NOT cheap. Cost almost as much as a pair of goggles), a cheap neutral density filter off Amazon for the threaded ring portion, and presto! An OD 7+ filter for your camera!!! What could go wrong?
Well....that stuff they make the filters out of is harder than hell. Almost like glass. A 52mm lens filter has threads that are 52mm measured across the bottom of the threads. So there I was, thinking I could just screw this plastic filter material into the threads of the ND filter. Ain't happening. I spent an hour gingerly sanding the edges of the filter material until I got it down to a diameter that would fit.
I got it done and it works great but, if you want to do this yourself, I recommend ordering a disc .5mm smaller than the filter diameter of the lens you're going to use it with.
Oh, and for the record, They did a wonderful job on my special order. I ordered a 52mm disc +0/-0.5mm tolerance and they delivered a perfect disc that was exactly 52mm in diameter to the limits of my ability to measure. If I'd ordered it 51.5mm with the same tolerances I would have probably been able to assemble my special filter with no extra work whatsoever.
