If You're Not Passing Get The **** Out of the Left Lane

[Benm]

Some states like here in Oregon it's actually against the law to stay in the left lane
unless you are passing a vehicle,

This is the law in most of europe as well. Staying in the left lane when you are not overtaking vehicles can yield you a hefty fine.

Recently they introduced trajectory speed controls on some highways though, where they measure your average speed over a few kilometers and fine you for speeding. This caused all cars to travel just on the edge of that limit, so there is little chance of overtaking without getting fined for speeding. Too bad this got so effective that its hardly possible to overtake anything in those zones anymore, even if you are in enough of a hurry to take the speeding ticket for granted... just kilometers of cars taking eachother over with a difference of 0.001 km/h

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

This is the law in most of europe as well. Staying in the left lane when you are not overtaking vehicles can yield you a hefty fine.

Recently they introduced trajectory speed controls on some highways though, where they measure your average speed over a few kilometers and fine you for speeding. This caused all cars to travel just on the edge of that limit, so there is little chance of overtaking without getting fined for speeding. Too bad this got so effective that its hardly possible to overtake anything in those zones anymore, even if you are in enough of a hurry to take the speeding ticket for granted... just kilometers of cars taking eachother over with a difference of 0.001 km/h

Wow that sucks

There are several highways in the US that use a similar approach... toll booth and entrance to highway and at exit. If you reach the other booth too fast, along with the toll fee, you're also handed a speeding ticket.

At least hopefully in those "zones" they adjusted the speed limit to something more appropriate?

One of the major issues with US highways is that the speed limit by default is 50mph if not otherwise indicated. Most interstate highways the limit is 55mph.

The reality is most traffic moves at around ~65-70mph, and even the cops that watch for speeder generally won't take off after anyone unless they are doing at least 15mph+ over the limit. (Unless of course it's a slow day, the end of the month and they need to fill they monthly quota.)

@Shorty - No offense, but last thing we need is a bunch of roadway camera vigilantes. There are enough cameras all around as it is.

If a serious offense is committed, you can actually always call it in, and depending on the situation it will be logged and investigated.

I do understand where you're coming from with those slow, always driving the same speed people. In my town there are roads, local roads, which are 25mph (school zones) regular side roads, also 25mph, major streets which are 35mph, and a few streets that are 40mph. Unfortunately all the time there are cars that just drive ~30mph no matter where

 

[ShortyInCanada]

"roadway camera vigilantes"
OK.This could be a good side conversation...
I'm not understanding your usage of the word "vigilantes" in reference to my example.
All I'm suggesting is a simple recording of what I see when driving that contains the irrefutable proof of violations and the violators doing it.
As I admitted, I am by no means a perfect or saintly driver. I am/have been lucky enough to have exceptional reaction times and I take driving very seriously so I have learned where to "push the limits" and how to deal with it. (I take advantage of closed places in variable conditions to practice and push myself and vehicles so I am intuitively aware of slight differences and will react appropriately when I need to. It's also a lot of fun.)
I don't do things stupidly, and I have no problems with the consequences when the police pull me over. (I think my acceptance has resulted in a few "warnings this time" too.)
It's just when I'm going the posted speed in a playground zone that is full of kids coming and going (summertime with a public pool near dinner hour) and some jerk feels that blowing past me on the wrong side is his "right" triggering several others to follow his example...well I think there should be some way of the authorities being notified and able to hunt these jerks down to say "You were SO WRONG to do that !". The charges for doing this : passing in a no passing zone, passing on the wrong side, speeding, and now a second charge of excessive speed automatically applies as it is a playground/school zone too. The last charge doubles the fines and could result in a loss of driving privileges.
I have felt this way for most of my driving life and now that I have a kid of my own I have a heightened sense for this sort of thing.
Now remember that I am only saying that I can record what I am seeing.
Everything is NOT reported. Just the process of transferring the data and submitting it would mean that only the more serious offenses would warrant attention.
And if there is a legal system involved you gotta know that all the extra steps and confirmations, etc that legal systems require to proceed with actions also would discourage frivolous or pointless claims.
Modern video and computer analysis could automate the process.
So offending individuals would get an automated letter from the authorities condemning their actions. And if their vehicle plate shows up more than a predetermined number of times in a certain time frame then the matters could be bumped up to more "personal" attention by a human member of the forces.
I would be happy under these circumstances.
And once in a while I might even get a letter myself. But as I don't habitually offend I wouldn't worry.
But those people in my example here would definitely be getting a visit from the police, and I think rightly so.
They would still get the chance to fight the charges in court.
But I bet they would drive a bit more responsibly !

 

[BShanahan14rulz]

I'm half Asian, and I noticed a few people mentioning that Asians drive poorly. It really pisses me off when people say we drive poorly because we don't know any better or that we don't understand the traffic rules.

Personally, I think it's something genetic. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to random things, and driving right in the middle of a lane is often one of those things. Took me a lot of practice to keep perfectly in the middle of the lane, +/- ~2 inches or so. But somehow, I get the feeling that others do not have such a hard time.

Another thing I've noticed is that it is hard to stay in my lane when I'm looking sideways or closing my eyes. I'm thinking it has to do with the shape of my ocular aperture covers inducing an illusion of horizontal left-right movement that isn't actually there. Or maybe it's that I can't move my head without moving my arms subconsciously.

Either way, for some reason, Asians do drive with less ease than you white people. But at least we don't all look alike

 

[lasersbee]

I'm half Asian, and I noticed a few people mentioning that Asians drive poorly. It really pisses me off when people say we drive poorly because we don't know any better or that we don't understand the traffic rules.

Personally, I think it's something genetic. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to random things, and driving right in the middle of a lane is often one of those things. Took me a lot of practice to keep perfectly in the middle of the lane, +/- ~2 inches or so. But somehow, I get the feeling that others do not have such a hard time.

Another thing I've noticed is that it is hard to stay in my lane when I'm looking sideways or closing my eyes. I'm thinking it has to do with the shape of my ocular aperture covers inducing an illusion of horizontal left-right movement that isn't actually there. Or maybe it's that I can't move my head without moving my arms subconsciously.

Either way, for some reason, Asians do drive with less ease than you white people. But at least we don't all look alike

Yeah I'd have a hard time staying in my lane if my head was looking
sideways with my eyes closed....:crackup::crackup::crackup:

KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD and YOUR HANDS UPON THE WHEEL....
:na: :beer:

Jerry

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

"roadway camera vigilantes"
OK.This could be a good side conversation...
I'm not understanding your usage of the word "vigilantes" in reference to my example.

Here's the problem. What you're proposing puts a measure of law enforcement capability into 100% civilian hands. By definition when someone takes the law into their own hands they become a vigilante.

To be honest I actually don't have that much of a problem with that. Sometimes cops do an awful job imo, but that's another issue.

What I do have a problem with is one bad driver chasing another trying to catch a shot of a license plate.

Then there is the problem of surveillance and privacy. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I don't want more freaking cameras everywhere.

This also brings to the front the issue of selective enforcement, and requirements. In the US at least, even if an incident is reported, it can be contested in court and you have the right to face your accuser, and the consequences of that accusation.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the solution to shitty driving is not all out enforcement and punishment. It's education.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem lies with a system that requires only a 5 minute driving test and a 15 minute written test. I mean a freaking monkey could pass it with enough training!

What you're aiming at is not all bad though. I just think that laws need to catch up to the reality of driving, and technology, and they haven't.

If there are going to be drivers who are driving around with cameras, they should be held a higher standard. For now, if you see something that egregious, like a guy passing you, speeding, in a school zone, take note of the license plate and call it in.

 

[lasersbee]

Everyone with video camera filming and stooling on everyone
else is the old "I'm telling mommy"...

Up here in Quebec a few years ago some of the bikers decided
to rat on the group they usually found them floating face down
or in a burlap bag weighted down with cinder blocks in the
St. Lawrence river not long after...

I like to keep my nose in my own business.... lest it get cut
off....


Jerry

 

[BShanahan14rulz]

Everyone with video camera filming and stooling on everyone
else is the old "I'm telling mommy"...

I think it's a good idea, as long as it is only used for incidents in which your vehicle was involved. Being a tattle-tail is stupid. Everybody has broken the law. You can't say that you've never ever gone one Mi/h over the speed limit. If there were cameras everywhere, we'd get fines all day every day. However, for use in collecting evidence of an incident that happened to your own vehicle I could definitely stand behind that. I live in Nashville, and I bet there are more mexicans ("mexicans" meaning illegals, as opposed to "Mexicans") here than out west or even in Mexico. (Let me also add that I have nothing against Mexican-Americans. If you filled out the paperwork and were let into the country, you deserve to be here just as much as [if not more than] me) Well, I've been in about 8 collisions that damaged my vehicle to some extent. Only twice has the offending party stopped to exchange words/information with me, and that's only because they were students at my school and I could just look up where they lived. All the rest were hit-and-run mexicans. If I had a camera in my car, I could have found out who to report for hitting my car. Then at least I'd have a chance at getting some money for repairs, or at least the satisfaction of deporting some drunk who isn't even supposed to be here.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I'm half Asian, and I noticed a few people mentioning that Asians drive poorly. It really pisses me off when people say we drive poorly because we don't know any better or that we don't understand the traffic rules.

I don't think that's a problem particular to asian folks at all actually. Rather all immigrants who first learned to drive outside of the US.

Did you know that you could take the driving test in languages other than english? At least that used to be the case in the past... idk if it still is.

Considering all the signs are in english, imo that's kind of retarded. It also comes back to education and proper testing.

I spent more time waiting to get my picture taken for my driver's license, then I did on the driving test AND written test combined.

About the other stuff... make sure your mirrors are adjusted in such a way that you don't need to move your head to actually use them, and when in tight lanes, use peripheral vision.

Of course do check your blind spot before changing lanes please

 

[BShanahan14rulz]

Oh hells yeah. Before starting the car, I check my mirrors. I was just experimenting when I first started driving one night when the interstate was empty, trying to teach my arms not to move when I look at my blind spots. A pet peeve of mine is actually seeing people looking completely over their shoulders to merge.

One rule I try to drive by is to always expect other drivers to do the dumbest possible thing, i.e. if the light's red, people will run it. If there is no space to merge, people will merge. Never assume that just because a light is green that it is safe to go. The light is merely a recommendation, and you should still look both ways before crossing, just like your parents taught you. It has saved my life at least twice, I am confident. If you see two pickup trucks flying down the road at 50+mph, sliding sideways, that would be a good time to either wait for them to pass/crash or get outta the way ;-)

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Oh hells yeah. Before starting the car, I check my mirrors. I was just experimenting when I first started driving one night when the interstate was empty, trying to teach my arms not to move when I look at my blind spots. A pet peeve of mine is actually seeing people looking completely over their shoulders to merge.

One rule I try to drive by is to always expect other drivers to do the dumbest possible thing, i.e. if the light's red, people will run it. If there is no space to merge, people will merge. Never assume that just because a light is green that it is safe to go. The light is merely a recommendation, and you should still look both ways before crossing, just like your parents taught you. It has saved my life at least twice, I am confident. If you see two pickup trucks flying down the road at 50+mph, sliding sideways, that would be a good time to either wait for them to pass/crash or get outta the way ;-)

Actually often times I will actually check over my shoulder. Mostly to make sure my blind spot is clear... I'm very paranoid about blind spots.

About your rule... it should be a requirement. When I'm driving I try to know what's happening around me at least two cars out.

Fighter pilots are taught situational awareness. Imagine how many accidents could be prevented if more people just paid attention.

Couple weeks ago I was in traffic. The car in front of me bumped into the car in front of it. Not hard since we were in traffic, but it was both funny and sad.

Meanwhile I stopped no problem... not even a hard stop. I mean the guy in front of me just wasn't paying attention at all. The car in from of him stopped and all three of the breaklights worked.

No one got hurt and I doubt there was more than damage to paint... but just seriously people need to pay attention when driving, and take into account that other people will do stupid shit.

 

[ShortyInCanada]

*WARNING* Big block reply ! (full of spelling mistakes too. I've got work to do...)

"puts a measure of law enforcement capability into 100% civilian hands."
Actually, the equipment is in private hands but the onus of everything reported would still be through the local law enforcement system. You would have no more control over enforcement of laws than you do now. The only difference is that you would be another set of eyes for spotting violations. It will still be up to the "system" to determine IF you were correct and IF further actions should be made.

"Sometimes cops do an awful job"
A surveilance system in private cars would hold them accountable to laws too. You ever have a "cop" drive in a way that constitutes above the law that you have seen ? There are strict rules & regulations for them too. A picture or video would be undeniable proof.

"one bad driver chasing another trying to catch a shot of a license plate"
A mounted system in your vehicle would make this uneccessary. Low grade video imaging devices with computer filtering and control already are in use around the world for collecting tolls on bridges, finding parking violators, etc. The technology to locate, read, and record license plates is cheap and easily available.

"you have the right to face your accuser,"
This is an easy one as the evidence is the "accuser" in the legal system. The admissablility of video and photo evidence has been established. The picture or video is deemed to be the "accuser" as it is a more reliable and completely unbiased reporter of the events.The trick will be to make it so the driver is recognizable.

"solution to shitty driving is not all out enforcement and punishment. It's education."
In concept this is true. However making it work is the problem. This is why enforcement & punishment are the hardest part of laws. I took that into consideration and as history proves, only after getting enough press about the violators being caught in the act do people start to pay attention and change their ways. If you couldn't tell who might be able to provide proof of your bad driving habits and illegal activities then you would have to be more careful ALL the time.

"take note of the license plate and call it in. "
Although this leans towards your other point of "one bad driver chasing another trying to catch a shot of a license plate" there is another problem with this idea. I have tried reporting incidents like I described with multiple plates and vehicle descriptions. Unfortunately the authorities can do nothing without confirmation of the operator of the vehicle as someone can always claim that they weren't driving it at the time. That is why you need high quality optics for video to capture the operators likeness. This could be easily compared to the picture from the driver's license photo on file with the DMV.

"you could take the driving test in languages other than english?"
Here in BC it is available in multiple languages. And if you drive around there are more & more communities with most, if not all, of their signage in another language. I am starting to believe that white English speaking people are the minority around here.


Don't overlook that the first action by the authorities would simply be a letter or two telling you that you have been noticed driving unsafely. Only by continuing to drive poorly or recklessly would it escalate to more.
Included in my original thought was the recording of information about the person doing the recording too. Think about that ! If you are speeding down a highway at 2 A.M. doing 20% faster than the posted speed when someone in a $500,000 lightning bolt on wheels blows by you...if you want to report him you incriminate yourself too.
This would work as a check & balance system for the "recorder". So either you drive like prude all the time OR you learn to take things in stride and only worry and report the really bad instances.
A point that most people would reach in, I would hope, a fairly short time. And then you still would need to download the info, submit it for consideration, then if accepted you would need to verify the submission and authenticate a legal chain of posession/transport for the submission. etc. Enough of a legal hassle to further weed out superfluous submissions.
I would expect that the end result would be that maybe 1% of the events witnessed and recorded would end up being prosecuted.
BUT the general perception of the public (if the press is good enough) would be exagerated enough that a much larger percentage would alter their bad driving habits.
This is the end result that would be desired.

And what a crash recording you would have if you were involved in a motor vehicle accident too.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

***Also at work so excuse any grammar, spelling, or repeats. Was actually on a conference call when typing this up

"puts a measure of law enforcement capability into 100% civilian hands."
Actually, the equipment is in private hands but the onus of everything reported would still be through the local law enforcement system. You would have no more control over enforcement of laws than you do now. The only difference is that you would be another set of eyes for spotting violations. It will still be up to the "system" to determine IF you were correct and IF further actions should be made.

While in theory you care correct, in practice you are not. Providing another way for people to snitch on each other will cause overzealous enforcement, which will be detrimental, and can easily get out of hand.

The whole idea of this "system" seems very Orwellian to me.

"Sometimes cops do an awful job"
A surveilance system in private cars would hold them accountable to laws too. You ever have a "cop" drive in a way that constitutes above the law that you have seen ? There are strict rules & regulations for them too. A picture or video would be undeniable proof.

In many states in the US you are not even allowed to film on duty police officers. While this would be great, in equalizing enforcement and "watching the watchers" it will never fly.

Strict traffic enforcement for cops?... Now that's a laugh. Cops are the only ones that are specifically exempt from any traffic rules in most cases. Even without a siren on.

"one bad driver chasing another trying to catch a shot of a license plate"
A mounted system in your vehicle would make this uneccessary. Low grade video imaging devices with computer filtering and control already are in use around the world for collecting tolls on bridges, finding parking violators, etc. The technology to locate, read, and record license plates is cheap and easily available.

While the technology is certainly out there, I think you're ignoring the human factor, and that the technology has a crapload of flaws and problems.

If you give people a reason to chase one another, they will.

"you have the right to face your accuser,"
This is an easy one as the evidence is the "accuser" in the legal system. The admissablility of video and photo evidence has been established. The picture or video is deemed to be the "accuser" as it is a more reliable and completely unbiased reporter of the events.The trick will be to make it so the driver is recognizable.

In this case you're 100% off base. Since the cameras are mounted on your personal vehicle and being operated by you... YOU are the primary witness.

Also tinted windows, and glare aside, more often then not, you're going to be seeing and paying attention to acts in FRONT of you. This means in most cases your camera won't see the driver. Even multiple cameras would not be sufficient in most cases, and the LAST thing that should happen is someone actually using a handheld camera.

Finally let's not forget the whole privacy issue. Do you remember the whole google street view fiasco? Specifically the fact that they were required to blur out all faces, and not take pictures of certain areas? If not, google it.

Bottom line... it's not happening.

"solution to shitty driving is not all out enforcement and punishment. It's education."
In concept this is true. However making it work is the problem. This is why enforcement & punishment are the hardest part of laws. I took that into consideration and as history proves, only after getting enough press about the violators being caught in the act do people start to pay attention and change their ways. If you couldn't tell who might be able to provide proof of your bad driving habits and illegal activities then you would have to be more careful ALL the time.

Actually more often then not, history proves the opposite. For example consider murder. People have been caught red handed (sometimes literally) for centuries. Has that stopped murders?

Great, so now I have to worry about that freaking grandpa doing 50mph on a 55mph highway, reporting me when I blow past him doing 70?

Sorry but I'll pass (put intended) on this idea. It's enough that these are usually the same guys constantly calling in their suspicions from watching neighbors through binoculars.

"take note of the license plate and call it in. "
Although this leans towards your other point of "one bad driver chasing another trying to catch a shot of a license plate" there is another problem with this idea. I have tried reporting incidents like I described with multiple plates and vehicle descriptions. Unfortunately the authorities can do nothing without confirmation of the operator of the vehicle as someone can always claim that they weren't driving it at the time. That is why you need high quality optics for video to capture the operators likeness. This could be easily compared to the picture from the driver's license photo on file with the DMV.

Comes back to the issue of tech, and handheld cameras... not a good idea.

"you could take the driving test in languages other than english?"
Here in BC it is available in multiple languages. And if you drive around there are more & more communities with most, if not all, of their signage in another language. I am starting to believe that white English speaking people are the minority around here.

If it's not the case already, it will be soon. I don't really see it as a problem though. White people will continue to be a very large minority and most powerful minority. What pisses me off is any kind of double standard. Laws should be equal to everyone.

Don't overlook that the first action by the authorities would simply be a letter or two telling you that you have been noticed driving unsafely. Only by continuing to drive poorly or recklessly would it escalate to more.
Included in my original thought was the recording of information about the person doing the recording too. Think about that ! If you are speeding down a highway at 2 A.M. doing 20% faster than the posted speed when someone in a $500,000 lightning bolt on wheels blows by you...if you want to report him you incriminate yourself too.
This would work as a check & balance system for the "recorder". So either you drive like prude all the time OR you learn to take things in stride and only worry and report the really bad instances.
A point that most people would reach in, I would hope, a fairly short time. And then you still would need to download the info, submit it for consideration, then if accepted you would need to verify the submission and authenticate a legal chain of posession/transport for the submission. etc. Enough of a legal hassle to further weed out superfluous submissions.
I would expect that the end result would be that maybe 1% of the events witnessed and recorded would end up being prosecuted.
BUT the general perception of the public (if the press is good enough) would be exagerated enough that a much larger percentage would alter their bad driving habits.
This is the end result that would be desired.

If your goal is behavior modification... start putting up signs that display the speed limit. These have shown to actually do a very good job in getting people to alter their driving habits.

And what a crash recording you would have if you were involved in a motor vehicle accident too.

Most newer cars already have that. It's called an event data recorder. You have to remember that newer cars especially, have a whole lot of processing power in them and record data such as speed, gas pedal application, break pedal application, turning of the wheel, etc,.

Unfortunately there is no regulation for the gathering of this information, or calibration of the equipment... so again, law hasn't come close to catching up technology, and neither caught up to common sense.

Lastly remember that there are already devices in the very vast majority of cars that detect the movement of the car, the identity of who is occupying the car (to a degree) and a whole lot of other data.

These devices are cell phones.

All in all, it's been an interesting discussion, but I see no way that you can overcame several very major obstacles to the idea of drivers monitoring drivers.

 

[Ash]

There are people in this world, right now,
who are having their skin removed
one square inch at a time,
just to force them to admit to something that they didn't even do

Take your foot off the gas, turn up the tunes, and smile

Peace,
dave

I prefer to just hope they glimpse my plate when I'm coming up on them:

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

^^^LMAO.

Meanwhile I've been debating with myself whether to add a couple of antennas on top and lights behind the grill:shhh:

The problem most often is with people who plain don't look in the rearview mirror.

This middle aged asian lady was in the left lane in front of me today. 100% oblivious, doing 45-50mph in the left lane, and pacing a truck:scowl:

When finally the truck slowed for an exit, there was an opening, and I got around her on the right.

Absolutely ZERO reaction. She was staring straight ahead and that's it. Her head didn't move except to bob a little over bumps.

 

[icecruncher]

I understand if you are driving in a big city and you don't pull over to the right (even though you should).

But when you get out of a MAJOR Metropolitan area. Get your car into the right lane except for passing.

I drive all day and it's amazing how many people don't know that they are supposed to do it. (mostly younger - sorry but true)

THe other ones are the soccer moms and people on cells, grannies.

Both of my personal cars will do about 150mph. I don't do that, but I usually don't want to wait for someone doing 45 in a 60 zone. If you want to take a leisurely cruise, get in the right lane.

I'm amazed at how many people also have no manners what so ever! They think they are the most important thing on earth and act, drive and behave that way.

This is just an example!