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Help Needed: Accurate laser for aiming

diachi

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Bright enough for daytime usage but not too bright that they will burn.
Daytime as in full direct sunlight?

Very likely not going to happen at eye-safe power levels.
 



SportsLight

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Daytime as in full direct sunlight?

Very likely not going to happen at eye-safe power levels.
Yes unfortunately, most if not all installs are baseball fields and football fields. It looks like I will most likely have to fabricate custom adjustable mounts to compensate for the variances in the lasers.
 

diachi

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Yes unfortunately, most if not all installs are baseball fields and football fields. It looks like I will most likely have to fabricate custom adjustable mounts to compensate for the variances in the lasers.
Custom mounts aren't going to change the fact that you'll have a very hard time seeing an eye-safe laser in full direct sunlight from any sort of distance.
 

RedCowboy

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You can do laser alignment of ....whatever by using a low power emitter and a detector at the end of a tube, you place a mirror on plane with the spotlight you want to align to the ground and bound your beam off the mirror adjusting it until the detector shows it's aligned, you don't need to use a high power visible laser.
 

SportsLight

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Custom mounts aren't going to change the fact that you'll have a very hard time seeing an eye-safe laser in full direct sunlight from any sort of distance.
Yes, but I'm trying to get the best performance as we can.
 

SportsLight

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You can do laser alignment of ....whatever by using a low power emitter and a detector at the end of a tube, you place a mirror on plane with the spotlight you want to align to the ground and bound your beam off the mirror adjusting it until the detector shows it's aligned, you don't need to use a high power visible laser.
I thought about this but it will take too long to find the correct location. I imagine its like being in pitch black and tasked to find a dime 100 Ft away with a hand held laser.
 

SportsLight

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Some other things that I have considered is using a cheap red dot scope, similar to those used on pistols and having the installer aim through the viewfinder.
 

RedCowboy

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I thought about this but it will take too long to find the correct location. I imagine its like being in pitch black and tasked to find a dime 100 Ft away with a hand held laser.
WHAT???



Sports fixtures i.e. stadium lights cannot be aimed using there beam pattern onto the field. Everything is calculated for even light distribution, hence the laser. Its not like you can put a bunch of light up and eyeball them and say its good. This is also why you rarely see shadows during sporting events and also fans are not blinded watching the game in the stands.

We are currently using these. I don't want or need to make a custom laser. For purpose of aiming lights the laser is mounted square with the light.

For an example if we mount the laser body to a level and verify that it is level to the horizontal axis. If the laser optic is tilted 3 degrees down due to manufacturing, this will point x (varies w/ distance) degrees lower that it should. Therefore throwing my aim off.
WHAT?

Doing basic runout with an X-Y adjustable mount is something you have had to know how to do long before now, if you have been using those cheap aiming lasers you know they have screw adjustments for X and Y

Maybe buy an industrial alignment laser that's already square to it's mounting if you want to save time on set up if that's what you are talking about.

Jet Lasers has these and there more all over the place.

If you align your laser to a mounting plate then you only need to set up your already aligned mount to each fixture and if you need to align your laser to where the spotlight hits the ground then you have to turn it on, if going by your spotlights mounting then simply pre align your laser to a mounting plate. ( JIG )......I don't see what the issue is ?


---edit---

I just jumped in here but it sounds like you don't know what your doing, this sounds like the laser line on the ball field thread again.

Your lights will need to be tested as someone walks the field with a light meter and the stands, there's going to be after adjustments, you are talking like you need something more than a level bubble and a degree gauge that should be built into the lights, I am doubting what you are saying at this point.

As if the light manufacturers have not thought this out before now, and you have been using a sporting laser.........calling BS on this 1

----edit----

I can see the spread is set on the ground, not up the pole with a laser.
There's no shadows because they use a lot of lights, a lot of lights like every stadium we have ever seen.
Precise alignment my hairy ass.


 
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diachi

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Yes, but I'm trying to get the best performance as we can.

You're not going to get any performance because you'll have a very hard time seeing the dot, if you can see it at all. That's my whole point.

How were lights aligned before lasers existed? Surely if you're trying to eliminate shadows you could just have a couple people stand in the field while you align the lights and tell you if they still see any shadows?
 

RedCowboy

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Any particular light group is designed to cover a certain area as in square feet and depending on the size of your field you order the light groups needed so you can put up a pole at a per determined height every so many feet apart based on your field area to completely flood the field with light, you don't align each lights fixture in the air you set the spread of the fixtures on the ground, this is why stadiums use so many lights, so there's no shadows and plenty of light.

Look at these big stadium lights, the individual units are fixed as it's set up to flood an area with light, only rough alignment of the weatherproof enclosure holding the array is needed as there will be plenty of them to make it look like daylight on the field.



C and D you guys are too funny, slow days at the circle jerk ? ;)
 
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SportsLight

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WHAT???




WHAT?

Doing basic runout with an X-Y adjustable mount is something you have had to know how to do long before now, if you have been using those cheap aiming lasers you know they have screw adjustments for X and Y

Maybe buy an industrial alignment laser that's already square to it's mounting if you want to save time on set up if that's what you are talking about.

Jet Lasers has these and there more all over the place.

If you align your laser to a mounting plate then you only need to set up your already aligned mount to each fixture and if you need to align your laser to where the spotlight hits the ground then you have to turn it on, if going by your spotlights mounting then simply pre align your laser to a mounting plate. ( JIG )......I don't see what the issue is ?


---edit---

I just jumped in here but it sounds like you don't know what your doing, this sounds like the laser line on the ball field thread again.

Your lights will need to be tested as someone walks the field with a light meter and the stands, there's going to be after adjustments, you are talking like you need something more than a level bubble and a degree gauge that should be built into the lights, I am doubting what you are saying at this point.

As if the light manufacturers have not thought this out before now, and you have been using a sporting laser.........calling BS on this 1

----edit----

I can see the spread is set on the ground, not up the pole with a laser.
There's no shadows because they use a lot of lights, a lot of lights like every stadium we have ever seen.
Precise alignment my hairy ass.


You are correct on the base plate and its alignment to the light and laser. Its addressed on my prior post. I can either find a reliable laser with xy adjustments or fabricate a base with xy adjustments. I was hoping to find a laser with xy hence me joining this forum. I replaced an inept production manager and his bad decisions.

Yes the light fixtures themselves have degree markings but they are not as precise as a laser. Alignment and aiming is computer generated and to measure and adjust even light level of 1/4 football field is not practical with one man on a lift and another on the ground.

Please don't think that lighting companies just put lights up and if they need more Bubba can go buy an extension cord and add a light or they can just turn a fixture off. Good luck explainging to University president why 5 fixtures they paid for is on due to bad engineering. There is a problem with having too much light.

How have they aligned these lights before? LED sport lighting are very new (years). Before led were Metal Halide, which was/is more forgiving due to using bowl reflectors they are more of a flood light rather than a spot light. You can compare this to reflector (regular) automotive lights to HID/LED projectors. If you notice the HID/LED lights have a defined cutoff.

Those companies who install LED sports lights without proper laser alignment is doing their customers a disservice.

How are current companies aiming? Simple, they do it at night. My installers are asking for better, if they can aim during the day they can be home an extra day rather than wait for the next night and travel the following morning. We work through out the country.

*I understand I am a guest here. I'm am not new to forums or its varied culture and group think. When I make major purchases (cars, specialized electronics) I often find a forum for real-world usage, troubleshooting, and discussions. I just thought members here would be interested in what I am doing.
 

SportsLight

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Any particular light group is designed to cover a certain area as in square feet and depending on the size of your field you order the light groups needed so you can put up a pole at a per determined height every so many feet apart based on your field area to completely flood the field with light, you don't align each lights fixture in the air you set the spread of the fixtures on the ground, this is why stadiums use so many lights, so there's no shadows and plenty of light.

Look at these big stadium lights, the individual units are fixed as it's set up to flood an area with light, only rough alignment of the weatherproof enclosure holding the array is needed as there will be plenty of them to make it look like daylight on the field.



C and D you guys are too funny, slow days at the circle jerk ? ;)

Ah crap how'd that guy get our build plans!
 

SportsLight

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You're not going to get any performance because you'll have a very hard time seeing the dot, if you can see it at all. That's my whole point.

How were lights aligned before lasers existed? Surely if you're trying to eliminate shadows you could just have a couple people stand in the field while you align the lights and tell you if they still see any shadows?
Its not that simple. I addressed your first comment in prior post. That's like me, a noob, coming here and saying "whats the fuss? Why don't you guys just put a magnifying glass in front of your laser and run a wire to a 12v car battery. If it can start my car it can make the laser run brighter and last three days"
 

RedCowboy

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Sportlight said:
How are current companies aiming? Simple, they do it at night. My installers are asking for better, if they can aim during the day they can be home an extra day rather than wait for the next night and travel the following morning. We work through out the country.

ANY LASER OVER 5MW IS A POTENTIAL EYE HAZZARD AND YOU NEED TO KNOW THE LAW BEFORE BUILDING ANY DEVICE TO BE USED IN COMMERCE/BUSINESS OR FOR ANY COMMERCIAL PURPOSE. IT'S YOUR RSPONSIBILITY TO KNOW THE LAW.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I am paying $$$ for lights I want your installers to look them over at night and make 100% sure they're right, I don't give a dam if they have to wait a few hours more for the sun to go down on the last day.

As for your so called problem I can only assume that you know how to attach to your fixtures, so you simply use a transit and put the crosshairs right where you want the light to center, it all comes down to your attachment to the fixture, doesn't matter if you use a laser or a string line it's you who has to align your tool to the lamp fixture, the misalignment of a laser to it's mounting plate is something you compensate for ONE DAM TIME, so your problem is BULLSHIT!

Oh and you work through out the country yet you use crappy little hunting lasers, well if that statement that you made is true, then do what you have been doing " all through out the country " only buy a decent industrial quality alignment laser.


---edit---

You are comparing the alignment of a laser pointer to it's housing against the alignment of a FLOOD LIGHT and it's housing and you have to mount the laser to each floodlight without looking at it turned on at night/dusk and for this you need precise factory alignment between the laser beam and it's housing..........BOOOOOLLLLLLLLLSHEET You must register your laser beam to your mounting plates that attachs to your fixtures only once, then you simply attach the system to each light fixture.

I am going over this for my fellow hobbyist who may want to read it, the idea that you travel the country aligning floodlights in the daytime with a crappy little pointer and it's the misalignment of the laser and it's battery tube................simply buy a better quality direct laser alignment tool, but how you REGISTER your tool to each light fixture is something you have already had to known how to do.

THIS IS A HOBBY FORUM.
Why don't you contact a professional laser company about what your needs are ?

Here again is Jet lasers, I suggest a direct diode laser but eye safety is your responsibility, anything over 5mw can cause eye damage so learn that 1 thing here and go ask a professional about the rest.


p.s. If people want to play with you Great, Enjoy but I am finished, this is complete B.S. for a myriad of very obvious reasons.

p.s. If anyone here built this guy a direct laser attached to a plate or even the plate and he or his worker hurt someone with it after he said it was for a commercial application who's ass do you think would be in a sling ?
I know people here like to be helpful but I suggest he contact a professional company about his needs.
 
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steve001

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Its not that simple. I addressed your first comment in prior post. That's like me, a noob, coming here and saying "whats the fuss? Why don't you guys just put a magnifying glass in front of your laser and run a wire to a 12v car battery. If it can start my car it can make the laser run brighter and last three days"
As I stated earlier and RedCowboy said in caps. Know the federal law. Typically lasers over 5mW require one to obtain a variance which is a license to operate such a laser in a commercial enterprise. The appropriate form can be obtained from the CDRH as I recall. If you don't have a license and there is a mishap that opens you up to legal troubles.
 

paul1598419

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Even if you have a license and a mishap occurs you will be subject to all sorts of legal issues. If you are only using this with one person on the field and that person is trained in the possible dangers you should be able to mitigate them.
 




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