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HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

A long time ago when I wanted a laser I called like secretary of state, went to the local police station and read everything online and there's no laws against class IIIb lasers in Michigan, so I was pretty happy. Each state is different, I believe you guys are classifying the U.S. as a whole and that's not right. Each state has different laws about lasers. So anyone out there in michigan order away.
 

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SenKat

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

I think you will find yourself to be incorrect - there is a general federal law that encompasses the entire US - then states can have more restrictive laws, but not more permissive...read on the links I posted up higher in this thread - those are federaly mandated laws - they cannot be ignored by one state, and then followed by another.
 

Kenom

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

the cops here are jackass's. they would confiscate it just to take it for themselves. I know there have been some very serious transgressions with people shining the greenies at planes in my particular town and the cops would just pounce on me. GRRR. then I'd have to shoot em in the eye. No kidding. just frustrating when a laser like these can be devestating in the hands of an irresponsible person but like me who is just interested in it for screwing around and nothing harmful (well, maybe to matches and balloons) get's victimized for doing nothing wrong. Bah, now I'm ranting.
 

mcfehn

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

Do the safety features on Nova's Alpha series make them anymore legal than the x series? If not it looks like I'm going to consider going back to laserglow.
 

Greenie

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That bites SenKat. Hope mine get through ok.

Question for ya.. how many lasers or products have you order from them
and how many have gotten held??
 
S

SenKat

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

I have ordered, or had sent to me more lasers than I can recall to tell you the truth. I have never lost one to customs, nor do I think this one will be snatched by customs. Sometimes the shipping companies report it like that, just so you have some sort of an update in order to keep your mind at ease, about the progress of your package. It would TRULY suck bad if this one gets seized, as it was a serious over achiever ! We'll see what happens on Monday though.
 

Greenie

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Ok that make me feel better.. thanks Guy


Also.. if the return package to NOVA was taken
Would it effect my RMA, as long as it was shipped before the 7 day grace period?
 
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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

lazerlover said:
A long time ago when I wanted a laser I called like secretary of state, went to the local police station and read everything online and there's no laws against class IIIb lasers in Michigan, so I was pretty happy.  Each state is different, I believe you guys are classifying the U.S. as a whole and that's not right.  Each state has different laws about lasers.  So anyone out there in michigan order away.
Yeah, as SenKat said you're dead wrong. FDA, CDRH, FAA - all federal, all the US as a whole, all with jurisdiction to make rules/regulations over every square millimeter of these 50 states, and all with laser related restrictions.

There are also opportunities for EXTRA laws to be introduced at the state, county, etc levels. For instance here in Texas it is illegal to point any laser at a peace officer. HOWEVER, these are in ADDITION TO, NOT IN LIEU OF federal laws.

So be careful. Big brother is watching! Sure, just dozing on the job behind the telescreen most of the time, but you don't want to be one of the lucky few that gets caught.
 

steve001

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This is one of my favorite subjects to comment on as there are so many misconceptions as to what is legal status for lasers.
Unless the laws have recently changed any turnkey laser manufactured of class 3b or higher must have safety controls incorporated within the unit as defined by the FDA. Any laser imported that does not is subject to confiscation and is illegal to import. Anyone importing a non-compliant laser into the USA is subject to a fine [ that means you can be fined]. There are no laws either state or federal that make it illegal to own or operate a class 3b or higher laser. Neither the FDA or the CDRH has legal authority over laser hobbiest. As for state and local jurisdictions concerning lasers, I've not found anything that makes non-compliant lasers illegal, however many states have laws that make it illegal to harass someone with a pointer especially the police or emergency vehicles of any type. Harassment of aircraft is under the purview of Homeland Security.

Further reading under stickys

http:/ /ww.candlepowerforums.com/ vb/ showthread.php?t=76273
 

mcfehn

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

First, happy father's day to all the dads out there.

Next, take a look at this portion of the FDA regulation on hand held lasers:
=================================================
Can battery-operated, portable laser systems be sold in the U.S?
Yes, battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes.

People who operate Class IIIb portable laser systems should be familiar with the above ANSI standards for safe use of lasers. This ANSI series of standards includes specific information for the safe use of such laser products in their applications of use.
===================================================

Now, it seems to me that most of the products we talk about on here are not specifically sold as pointers...and many do have the turnkey safety feature as well as other safety features. Isn't this enough to comply with the FDA standard on class IIIb products that are imported? For example, laserglow touts that all of their products are 100 percent legal to be brought in the u.s. They have safety features out the wazoo. Now let's look at Nova. Their pen style portable lasers better known as the x series have no safety features. This to me means they do not comply and cannot be legally imported into the country. But when you look at Nova's Alpha series...they have a keyswitch, aperature shutter and LED indicator. To me these WOULD seem to comply and therefore be legal to import. Am I way off base here or misunderstaning the regulation?

One thing is for sure. I'm puttung my purchase on hold until I figure out exactly what I CAN and CAN'T legally have shipped into the country. It really pissed me off yesterday when the DL rep told me they flat out lie to customs in order to get some of their products into the U.S. Not cool. If I have to consider going back over to laserglow and pay a bit more for a legal product then I will. But my hope is that I can stay with Nova and discover that their Alpha series has enough safety to be considered a legal product. What do you think steve001?
 
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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

didnt someone recently get their lasers from laserglow taken by customs

http://www.lasercommunity.com/laserglow-experience-with-u-s-customs-t14112.html

in conclusion, no class 3b laser is safe from customs, no matter what company you buy from.
if laser companies like DL/WL do not lie on customs forms about the value of their lasers
UPS would be a lot richer because of taxes + their brokerage fees.
 

steve001

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mcfehn said:
First, happy father's day to all the dads out there.

Next, take a look at this portion of the FDA regulation on hand held lasers:
=================================================
Can battery-operated, portable laser systems be sold in the U.S?
Yes, battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes.

People who operate Class IIIb portable laser systems should be familiar with the above ANSI standards for safe use of lasers. This ANSI series of standards includes specific information for the safe use of such laser products in their applications of use.
===================================================
These standards apply not to hobbiest. You should read up on this part about amusement purposes. At this time I can't recall exactly how the FDA defines amusement purposes. It may only relate to laser shows.

Now, it seems to me that most of the products we talk about on here are not specifically sold as pointers...and many do have the turnkey safety feature as well as other safety features. Isn't this enough to comply with the FDA standard on class IIIb products that are imported? For example, laserglow touts that all of their products are 100 percent legal to be brought in the u.s. They have safety features out the wazoo. Now let's look at Nova. Their pen style portable lasers better known as the x series have no safety features. This to me means they do not comply and cannot be legally imported into the country. But when you look at Nova's Alpha series...they have a keyswitch, aperature shutter and LED indicator. To me these WOULD seem to comply and therefore be legal to import. Am I way off base here or misunderstaning the regulation?

You understand correctly

One thing is for sure. I'm puttung my purchase on hold until I figure out exactly what I CAN and CAN'T legally have shipped into the country. It really pissed me off yesterday when the DL rep told me they flat out lie to customs in order to get some of their products into the U.S. Not cool. If I have to consider going back over to laserglow and pay a bit more for a legal product then I will. But my hope is that I can stay with Nova and discover that their Alpha series has enough safety to be considered a legal product. What do you think steve001?

As long as the laser you are importing meets FDA standards you're good to go. The required safety features are listed within one of the links I provided or can be found on the FDA or CDRH sites. I forget which specifically though. I had to go through the FDA and CDRH sites to learn all this you can too.
 
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SenKat

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

To the best of my knowledge - the FDA standards tout the rules as this :
  • 3 second emmissions delay
  • Aperature beam blocker
  • "Dead man's" switch {a.k.a. safety dongle}
  • Keyed safety switch - that the key MUST not be able to be removed in the ON position
  • Warning label - listing the true classification, power, and wavelength of the laser

Now - with all that being said, it is also stated somewhere in the rules and regulations that none of the above listed safety features can be circumvented, or it invalidates the "legality" of the laser. So - if you put a penny in the tailcap of an Aries, and bypass the safety dongle, it no longer meets the minimum safety requirements and then becomes illegal. It is my understanding that the keys for hte Alpha series (envee, etc) can be removed whie the laser is in the "on" position, so that makes them no longer legal either.

Good luck finding a truly "Legal" pointer to import to the States - if there is a safety measure, it can be circumvented, and that in essence makes it possibly illegal.

Take your time, do the research, and consult legal advice if you are truly concerned about the legality of these pointers. Do ALL of that prior to any purchase, and you might be safe. Be careful about what venue you "demonstrate" your laser in, too - if there is even a remote chance it oculd shine in someone's eyes, you may be liable for any damages, etc. Be careful, play safe, and READ. I cannot tell people enough - READ anything and everything you can when it comes to lasers if you are truly interested in them, and want to experiment with them, then READ !!!!
 

Aseras

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it needs all of this to be compliant for stand alone uses. ( like a handheld)

* protective housing;
* protective housing warning labels and logotype labels;
* product identification label and certification statement;
* safety interlocks;
* emission indicator;
* remote interlock connector;
* key control;
* beam attenuator;
* specification of control locations;
* viewing optic limitations;
* scanning beam safeguards; and
* manual reset of beam cutoff.
integration into another piece of equipment excludes many of the rules.

actally i checked and it depends on the class of laser, see this http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_iii/otm_iii_6.html#app_iii:6_1
for a complete list. this page is basically the bible of laser safety in the US and it's not a nightmare to navigate like the FDA site is.
 

mcfehn

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Re: HELD AT CUSTOMS !!!  ARRRGH !

The following is from customer service at Wicked Lasers. It was sent to me after a failed attempt at using their live chat on Saturday. But apparently they still got my question and sent this response:

Dear Mike,

Laws and restrictions on portable lasers vary from one country to another. Wicked Lasers ships portable lasers worldwide, everyday with many happy customers in US. Many of our lasers are sent to laser enthusiasts, colleges, and universities nation wide and are used in home experiments, physics classes, and astrology (star gazing). We do not believe there are any licenses required for operating our lasers; however, you must be careful not to shine the beam directly into your own eyes (as well as others' eyes).

*Warning: shinning a laser beam at an airplane is a Federal offense.

Thank you!

Best Regards,

Pete Murphy
Customer Support Specialist
Wicked Lasers
89 Anshun Road, Building 9, Suite 104-105
Shanghai, 200052
(877)-WLASERS
http://www.WickedLasers.com
 




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