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FrozenGate by Avery

FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"






RedCowboy said:
BATFE, database, licensing and training. Uh NO. Hell No.

That still wont stop idiots, but it will screw us, it takes 2 years to get a laser show opperators permit last time I checked, I wanted to do DJ lighting and wedding up lighting, but NOPE.

Also I don't think that's the answer, I rather they just ban the flebay sells of green and blue pointers.

Seriously, anyone not willing to buy a module and fit it into a battery tube doesn't need it and doesn't appreciate it, the knuckle draggers who can't fit a module are likely the ones pointing at aircraft, 7 dollar 50mw greens in the hands or morons who can't attach one to battery, there's your problem.

Buy a module and fit it into a nice housing or a FL housing, let the 7 dollar fleaybay crap go if that's what it takes, BATFE and licensing is running backwards.
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Yes I agree. My licensing idea is running the wrong way, they need to stop the morons at fault, not legit hobbyists.
Razako said:
Well at least that would be a legit definition of defective rather than basing it on color:can:
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Agreed. Over spec lasers with labels that do not represent the laser correctly are defective.
"de·fec·tive
dəˈfektiv/
adjective
1.
imperfect or faulty.
"complaints over defective goods"
synonyms: faulty, flawed, imperfect, shoddy, inoperative, malfunctioning, out of order, unsound;"

If a laser is designed for a certain wavelength, and it produces the intended light, then it does not meet this definition.
 
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Crazlaser said:
Yes I agree. My licensing idea is running the wrong way, they need to stop the morons at fault, not legit hobbyists.

Agreed. Over spec lasers with labels that do not represent the laser correctly are defective.
"de·fec·tive
dəˈfektiv/
adjective
1.
imperfect or faulty.
"complaints over defective goods"
synonyms: faulty, flawed, imperfect, shoddy, inoperative, malfunctioning, out of order, unsound;"

If a laser is designed for a certain wavelength, and it produces the intended light, then it does not meet this definition.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Crazlaser. This is an excellent point, but the morons at the FDA do not understand it.

If you create a law to call a duck a chicken, that does not make it a chicken.
 
Crazlaser said:
Yes I agree. My licensing idea is running the wrong way, they need to stop the morons at fault, not legit hobbyists.

Agreed. Over spec lasers with labels that do not represent the laser correctly are defective.
"de·fec·tive
dəˈfektiv/
adjective
1.
imperfect or faulty.
"complaints over defective goods"
synonyms: faulty, flawed, imperfect, shoddy, inoperative, malfunctioning, out of order, unsound;"

If a laser is designed for a certain wavelength, and it produces the intended light, then it does not meet this definition.
Click to expand...

Sta said:
Agreed, Crazlaser. This is an excellent point, but the morons at the FDA do not understand it.

If you create a law to call a duck a chicken, that does not make it a chicken.
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You both have read the full FDA article and understand the only color that would be available is red with a maximum output of < 5mW, period, end of story.
As for definitions the FDA can defined a defective laser anyway they want because it's in their purview to do so. If you don't like it then after you bitch here voice your concerns where it might do some real good.
 
How freedom dies in America... Federal alphabet agencies arbitrarily banning, taxing or otherwise restricting things. We don't vote for them, we don't vote for the issues they deal with, and we have very little recourse outside of writing them an angry letter. They basically just do whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, and aren't directly accountable to the people of this country.
 
Razako said:
How freedom dies in America... Federal alphabet agencies arbitrarily banning, taxing or otherwise restricting things. We don't vote for them, we don't vote for the issues they deal with, and we have very little recourse outside of writing them an angry letter. They basically just do whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, and aren't directly accountable to the people of this country.
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Characterising it as arbitrary is a bit of an understatement. If it weren't for the thousands of persons playing 'laser tag" with aircraft the FDA wouldn't be taking this action to remedy the situation. Laser Attacks on Pilots: Risk Is Real and Growing | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week
The problem by the way is worldwide.
 
steve001 said:
Characterising it as arbitrary is a bit of an understatement. If it weren't for the thousands of persons playing 'laser tag" with aircraft the FDA wouldn't be taking this action to remedy the situation. Laser Attacks on Pilots: Risk Is Real and Growing | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week
The problem by the way is worldwide.
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I don't want to sound like an ignorant idiot, so I'll just leave this here without any statement of me being sure. I thought in an FAA video I saw, maybe it was the Boston Globe or NYT, that although lasers being shined at aircraft is at the least a nuisance, and at worst, extremely dangerous, that no aircraft had actually crashed because of this problem. I'm not understating the danger. It is severe and real. A glare could disorient a pilot and cause a crash. However, weren't most bans enacted because something terrible actually happened. For example in 1910, NY was the first state to create drinking and driving laws, because of fatalities (wikipedia). I can see the FDA or some agency trying to stop laser attacks, similar to the way states work to prevent DUI crashes. However the feds currently don't prohibit alcohol. They prohibit abuse of alcohol. They certainly are working to remove lasers. Can't we try to prohibit abuse?; Make the penalties very severe and put resources into tracking down offenders. I guess all I'm saying is this hobby is great and I don't want it ruined by morons with some pen they bought for $6.99 "high power military pen 532" type stuff, who are wondering "what if." I left the FDA a polite comment and I think everyone who sees this thread should. :banned:
 
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steve001 said:
Characterising it as arbitrary is a bit of an understatement. If it weren't for the thousands of persons playing 'laser tag" with aircraft the FDA wouldn't be taking this action to remedy the situation. Laser Attacks on Pilots: Risk Is Real and Growing | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week
The problem by the way is worldwide.
Click to expand...

Have any pilots even gotten documented eye damage? Far as I know there have been no laser related crashes, and very few if any cases of actual harm. Not that the pilots are all full of crap, but I suspect the vast majority of these cases involve a pilot just seeing a laser in use and freaking out. The whole thing just seems like another big 'scare issue'.

Pilots up in the air are usually at the wrong angle, or too far away to suffer serious harm from lasers. After reading that article it seems that deliberate attacks near/around airports are the biggest threat. You'd think it would be easy to catch a few of the bastards doing it and punish them severely to set an example. As always though, the government would rather just implement an ineffective ban which punishes the 99.9% of responsible users. Actually catching the criminals is hard work:thinking:
 
I am a pilot with over 2000 of hours logged as pilot in command and I can tell you this, unless someone was very close to a runway when I am using it, or about to land, a flash from the side several miles away is nothing but a nuisance and difficult to actually cause a problem for me. Pilots like to scream about any intrusion into their sacred sky, it is part of their culture. Sure anyone purposely trying to piss a pilot off needs to be dealt with for pointing one at them, but most of their complaints and the news about lasers being pointed at aircraft as "attacks" is scare hype.

Professional pilots think they are masters of the universe and any little thing which annoys them will be blown up into a huge issue, it is just how it is for these kind of people. That aside, I don't think the occurrences will begin to taper off without more people being caught and their prosecution being put into the news, but from that there will be a percentage of dorks who will just want to do so themselves, when they see all the news about it. Kinda how I think the rise of school shootings went, the more they were in the news, the more some kids with problems thought about doing it themselves but will the media talk about that aspect of the problem? Hell no, they make money from increased viewership.
 
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I can see clearer with my yellow/amber shooting glasses on, they ae just blue blockers, even looking out my window at the sunny sky with my orange laser safety glasses improves the contrast against the clouds, planes are more clearly visible.

Can't pilots wear a pair of amber/orange laser safety glasses when starting their decent?

It actually helps visual contrast, even a fairly light pair of high visibility OD+3 would eliminate virtually all but the end of the runway actual dedicated terrorist with some modified industrial lightshow equipment, god forbid they really build something "tactical" as it could.......

Mostly I would bet they are dealing with 7 dollar flebay pointers wielded by morons who live near the airport who are trying to see if the beam can hit that airplane up there, I suppose they are too stupid to point at the tail section only.

" PLEASE DON'T ANYONE POINT AT TAIL SECTIONS OR AIRCRAFT AT ALL!!! "

Likely it's just the bright green flash that's no true eye hazard at any distance, but is a distraction, likely people living near the airports, they are typically the cheap seats and not occupied by the sharpest of our society :whistle:

How hard would it be to put up some high poles, such as those high interstate light poles and rather than lights install a 360 degree array of cameras to pinpoint the idiots pointing at airplanes?
p.s. Yes there would be a flashing red warning light on top just like a water tower or antenna, they could be placed a safe distance from the runway, also putting small cams on the aircraft would not be difficult and would identify the trouble spots.

I think 7000 is a big number, but we have millions of airport landings each year, maybe amber glasses would be more appropriate for this needle in the haystack problem if it's not worth putting up cameras?

------EDIT------

Exactly right Alaskan.
Give pilots some light amber glasses, I bet they won't even wear them.
 
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I have seen videos of "laser attacks" from individuals using laser pointers and believe me, they were not enough light to cause a problem, you have to be near the runway with the individual pointing at you there too, and that is not where they use them, the control tower on the field is too much of a threat because they could be spotted and the dorks know that.
 
Alaskan said:
I am a pilot with over 2000 of hours logged as pilot in command and I can tell you this, unless someone was very close to a runway when I am using it, or about to land, a flash from the side several miles away is nothing but a nuisance and difficult to actually cause a problem for me. Pilots like to scream about any intrusion into their sacred sky, it is part of their culture. Sure anyone purposely trying to piss a pilot off needs to be dealt with for pointing one at them, but most of their complaints and the news about lasers being pointed at aircraft as "attacks" is scare hype.

Professional pilots think they are masters of the universe and any little thing which annoys them will be blown up into a huge issue, it is just how it is for these kind of people. That aside, I don't think the occurrences will begin to taper off without more people being caught and their prosecution being put into the news, but from that there will be a percentage of dorks who will just want to do so themselves, when they see all the news about it. Kinda how I think the rise of school shootings went, the more they were in the news, the more some kids with problems thought about doing it themselves but will the media talk about that aspect of the problem? Hell no, they make money from increased viewership.
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Dosen't our fucking own government us a Red green laser system to warn pilots they're too close to a certain area. I seen a video of it. Hypocrites.
 
That's about what low powered green would look like from a few miles away.

These are probably a 1-2 watt with a wide beam since they can be seen during the day and 25 at night. Also the Army uses 532s to signal at checkpoints. My nebhior shined it in the window one time and even though it has a flashlight spread it still looked like 300-500mw.
 
All of the moaning I'm reading is irrelevant as are the reasons why this law elicits these reactions. If you all do not speak up and share your perspectives in a thoughtful manner then this FDA initiative could become law and you will only have yourselves to blame.
 
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