Best Laser For Security - Pointing Out People In Crowd...?

[1up]

Worked in security for approx 11 months and I am looking for a laser to help point out/identify specific patrons within a busy environment [lots of people crowds].
We stand a good 3 feet above the customers and and issues of lasers being shone in peoples faces and eyes is a great possibility..Right now I'm looking at a Maplin Refrakta Green Laser Pointer - 1mw & 532 nm and a KAISER 2316 1mW.

The Maplin Refrakta is nice and bright, maybe a bit too bright and the KAISER 2316 is ok, but slightly too dim.

Any suggestions for a particular brand or colour and preferably with a visible beam or will this require a higher power output and potential hazards with regards to health and safety.

 

[Immo1282]

Given you are specifically pointing it at people (therefore with a real risk of direct exposure to their eyes) you must take care here - You should not use anything >1mw.

The best wavelengths are going to be in the green, specifically 532nm as this is the most visible (Human vision is most sensitive at ~550nm). The trap here is that cheap 532nm lasers might only emit <1mw of laser light at 532nm, but by design they generate much larger powers of invisible IR laser light. Thus for safety's sake you must make sure that whatever you use has an appropriate IR filter built in, or a way for you to add one. I'm not sure if the Maplin pointer has the right filter - I owned one a few years ago but it broke so I'm unable to test it.

I would strongly discourage using anything that is suspiciously cheap - Especially from ebay/china etc. for the reason of the IR filter.

You're right to seek advice here. I was at a club during my Uni freshers days, and the security were using a laser to point out people. I had not been drinking much, so I went over to ask them if the laser was safe and they were using a 532nm cheap green pointer marked as 200mW. I warned them that they'd blind someone even unintentionally and I was promptly thrown out. Glad you're aware not to be like those guys...

EDIT: One thing I will add... A visible beam without the environment being quite smoky will be quite dangerous. If the venue you are security for has smoke machines - practically any laser's beam will show up - but if it doesnt, strike this requirement off your list as it will make what you're looking for potentially quite hazardous.

 

[CurtisOliver]

My first ever pointer was that Maplin laser. They are good lasers but are quite expensive. They are electrically filtered so will be at the right power, which is very important for what you want to use it for. Just be careful not to cause public annoyance and you will have no problems.

 

[Laser Chick]

As stated above, with 532nm, IR is a large concern as it can be well above the visible output of 1mW
Test it on a meter that can test different wave lengths for the 532nm and IR as well. That will confirm that all the IR is being filtered out.
Plus the IR beam usually has a wider beam divergence.
I know 520nm is not as bright to the human eye but then IR is not a concern I believe.
Thanks for being safety conscientious for strangers, well done!!

 

[paul1598419]

Welcome to the LPF, 1up. It would be nice if you could post to the welcome forum and tell us a little more about yourself. Specifically where in the world you are. I am always concerned about people who scan others with colimated lasers as they are an eye hazard. It would be better if you could find a different way to scan a crowd. Cameras come to mind.

 

[CurtisOliver]

Based on his mention of Maplin, I can only assume that he is also from the UK. But it would be nice to know for definite. The Maplin 532nm is a Class 2 pointer. And as from experience from opening one up, it has a special electronic filter inside limiting and stabilising the output power. So it would be safe to use, but like Paul said. There may be other options available.

 

[kecked]

Use a well collimated flashlight. They sell a ton of them with a very tight bright beam. You can focus down so you could pick one person out at maybe 50 feet. Get a bit big after that. you could do similar by expanding a laser beam say 10 times. Now the divergence will stay very low and you can easily and safely spread the beam on a laser. Just make sure the near field beam is expanded so up close it is safe too.

Sorry not doing the math. Flashlight safer and better.

www.laserpointersafety.com

 

[lasersbee]

I agree... a specialized flashlight seems to be the
safest option.
If you go the Laser route then you WILL NEED
to test any Laser you buy on a Recently Calibrated
Laser Power Meter to be absolutely sure the Laser
is Eye Safe.

Jerry

 

[Cyparagon]

Whether you hurt someone or not, you're asking for a lawsuit. Regardless of your intentions, your precautions, and your safety implementations, you are intentionally pointing a laser at a person, with dozens of witnesses. How is that gonna look in court?

Use a narrow beam flashlight instead.

 

[Laser Chick]

Whether you hurt someone or not, you're asking for a lawsuit. Regardless of your intentions, your precautions, and your safety implementations, you are intentionally pointing a laser at a person, with dozens of witnesses. How is that gonna look in court?

Use a narrow beam flashlight instead.

After reflecting on this and letting this bounce around in my mind for awhile.
Cyp is 100% correct. Pointing any laser at a person intentionally is soooo asking for trouble.
Think about it, you are picking this person out of a crowd and that is already going to have them upset. Doing it with a laser gives them a perfect reason to come back at you with a lawsuit or whatever.

 

[1up]

Guess opinions have changed over the years..

https://laserpointerforums.com/threads/laser-for-night-club-bouncer.28102/

Even 1mW is too much...0.5mW..?

I can understand where you guys are coming from and the potential for problems buying an uncalibrated device, Murphy’s Law. I’ll do some more research into the UK law regarding using low powered lasers in a public place. Of course when one person sees another with a laser, one will follow another and before soon someone will get seriously injured.

An alternative as mentioned, a focusable led torch, something like the Sipik SK68 with a 14500 battery. Very bright. Only problem is the beam spread at a distance to too much and one easy fix is to swop out the lens for a concave lens, this would only work at a certain distance and goes a way to show the merits of a laser v led flashlight.

https://www.dx.com/p/sipik-sk68-120...d-flashlight-lantern-1-pc-549394#.W7c5yYrTWhA

Also given the laws in the UK only seem to indicate the legal aspects of pointing a laser at, planes, trains and cars the whole law regarding their use in this area is at best very limited, but once again..a person could be dazzled and become disoriented and fall etc.

You really could say the same thing about using an Led Torch....where does this end!

Ultimately we have radios and good communication is a must, even radios have their shortcomings and being able to quickly attend an area in a dark, noisy and busy environment.

Let’s just leave it at that.

 

[hakzaw1]

Only if you care to continue with this...
_________________
The link you provided is not exactly the same--Since 8 yrs ago and things have changed .'BUT he was posting about the use of lasers to get attention of co-workers NOT 'spotting' patrons w/ laser.
I agree with those who think having/using them WILL cause a few to 'bring their own' and 8 yrs ago finding/affording Hi power was both more expensive and Blue lasers were either new or not yet around like they are today.. so big diff between 'signaling co-workers VS lasing a person for whatever reasons.
_not done yet--read on..
Being UK... visible laser---bad idea.. no matter how well it works for this 'application'
and know that a flashlight can only have a small 'dot' at close range.. Just how far(max) would this be??
I doubt you will be working alone.. & you know headsets are super cheap and you can always be in constant contact.. And they can be 'hands-free'-- AT the very most (& then still not the greatest idea)-- <5mW reds from 638 nm to 640nm -metered at ~5mW.. if each co-worker has one-
1) get your team in contact and you should be able to say whereabouts this person of interest IS. They need to move in that direction.

2) IF you cannot find a better way or what is going on merits this.. tell your team you will be lasing this person very briefly and all on your team needs to do is go to them and more laser 'spotting' need not happen.. it should be as well aimed as possible.. VERY brief and moving in a tiny circle... have insurance-hire a lawyer to see what he thinks , get names of witnesses-- just for 'starters'
--I can see no real problem with this idea unless we are talking WoodStock II..
Outdoor venues make this harder for you.
good luck
Please do update this thread when you can --share with us what you learn, and myb keep us posted as this plays out.. while not the same thing BUT related ....search 'Ranger Kelli blinded at Burning Man' and read much of what you will find. but she as lased by a hi-power 532 green ..since then== NOW only with special permits are lasers allow at BM[I never went (yet) but ]'chipdouglas' is a regular ..& Jeff K 'pyrostyro' knows much about BM. and iirc 'chip' has done lasers at BM for a long time...
best wishes hak

XXXXXXXXXXX


forgot to ad this & its important.
Try to buy a laser with a 'fat beam' OR this can be accomplished with the adding of more optics... better idea? place a WTB thread in BS &T section... NO DOUBT some one has a low power red with awful divergence.. or can mod some for you.. very easy --not expensive.

let me do this.. since your are brand new... I will make the post (you soon will not need to worry. as you will meet the requirements) and also.... we all must wait a bit so our posts in BS&T are cleared by the mods --no big deal.

ONCE the spot is Huge its pretty much eye safe. (lower power Reds)
How many would you need???

hak
retired bouncer