Bad vibes with shortround 92

[SerpantSlayer]

Definitely an immature brat who doesn't deserve to buy anything from you!

And I agree with the selling to people over 18, it's nice that you even take up the time to get parental permission from those under 18.

 

[cantthinkofone]

yes very nice. you could just say no but going that extra step is well deserving. +rep!

 

[Flaminpyro]

I try not to discriminate against anyone and I always give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove to me they don't deserve it

I am one of the luck ones I feel as I had good old fashion grand parents that cared about me and showed me the correct way from a young age

PS thanks for the rep

yes very nice. you could just say no but going that extra step is well deserving. +rep!

 

[cantthinkofone]

i have no idea how but that grandparent thing reminded me of walking dead. anyone here watch that?

PS your welcome

 

[ApexProxy]

The reason we tend towards 18 as a mark first off is legality. At 18 in most places one is considered a legal adult and therefor is in charge of their own actions whereas under that age they are considered a minor and there are many very strict laws protecting minors(as there should be). Also, the question in itself can help weed out immaturity as in a perfect example of this case. When selling, I for one try to hold conversation to allow myself time to gauge maturity, responsibility, and a buyers experience with lasers in order to gauge weather or not they may be a liability to sell to. I do this to protect them, others, and myself. If a buyer does not appear to possess experience with handling a laser I do my best to inform them. If they are willing to learn I will teach them and if they are not willing then I have been known to turn away buyers.

In a nutshell, maturity is not always(surprisingly often not) directly linked with age and lacking maturity at any age makes you a liability to yourself as well as others when dealing with lasers.

 

[OrionBLF]

i have no idea how but that grandparent thing reminded me of walking dead. anyone here watch that?

FP, as for that missed sale, you can't be any more careful. Your grandparents sound swell. I only got to meet my maternal granddad and paternal grandma. They were sweet too. But I do recall them getting increasingly non-ambulant like 'walkers' as time passed. So I wonder if I'll be clutching an MS-V4 at 97 like : HERE:shhh:

 

[Elektrotechniker]

How dare you sell us what we want! :tsk:

He must have a future in politics. :crackup:

Thanks for the heads-up.

Trevor

Reminded me of

HAHAHA

 

[shortround92]

Hi All,

Since a private conversation became a forum thread, for the sake of transparency here is the full conversation for your viewing. It seems Jeff did not present it as it is and some of you may have gotten only one side of the story. Read it and make your judgement. I'm not making an apology or even trying or trying to change your views of me so that I can get a laser. Just trying to clarify things, especially to DTR and Apex, since they were mentioned in the pm.

View attachment privatemessages-shortround92-11-14-2013.txt

View attachment privatemessages-shortround92-11-14-2013#2.txt

Cheers,
Phuc

 

[Trevor]

Dang. That's a long correspondence. If you don't object, I think I'll spend a few minutes and organize the messages and repost it as sequential quotes.

Good of you to be totally transparent, including some material which might seem damning. ( Edit: I suppose it would be useful for FP to confirm the transcript, but this is still a good step. )

I'll give it a read here in a few minutes.

Trevor

 

[Elektrotechniker]

 

[cantthinkofone]

gave it a read and didnt understand one thing, you make it seem like age is not a big deal. if its not such a big deal, JUST PROVE IT! you took it way to far. obviously he needs to know your not going to lase airplanes and such. it was too big of a deal to take 3 seconds and prove it, but its no deal to get grumpy? honestly until i can read it without it being a jumble im saying that you over reacted just a bit.

 

[shortround92]

Thanks, Trevor. Sorry about the jumbles. I looked for ways to link the message, but couldn't figure it out. I must say I'm all thumbs when it come to posting.

canthinkofone, you're probably right that i may have overreacted a little in the end, but I did not in my 1st reply to FP telling him basically I'm not interested in proving my age and that I want to cancel the transaction. I was polite.

 

[shokkunlasers]

I'm still not getting one thing, some people aren't "of age". Back in the lazerbeak 5 w idea contest one member said he wasn't 18, and so how are these younger members to get laser if we don't allow them? I understand maturity is an issue but this in itself is a whole other thing. This guy took it too far and shouldn't have done what he did but now I'm interested into this as a whole. Lasers make fair learning tools for young ones as long as treated properly. Thoughts?

I was the one you mentioned and I have my own ideas ob that.

IMO somebody is able to learn what lasers are and how to build them without being spoon feed
he'll soon recognize that they aren't toys.

I've build first laser myself after I learned that.
I have got two pairs of safety googles and I lock my room when I play with my lasers so that nobody comes in unexspected.

For me this forum is very open for younger members if you behave polite and responsible nobody will question your age.

IMO age doesn't matter if the person is responsible and mature enough to handle a higher powered laser.

Even adults can behave stupid *cough* kipkay *cough*

I think the key is going the long way
Not buying a fully assembled high powered laser over night without knowing anything else than it looks cool and burns stuff.

I hope I' m still welcome here when I'm telling you that I'm 16 :tinfoil:

 

[Trevor]

Ok, so here it is, all sequential:

Hi,

I'm building a laser to kill some pests aptaisas in my reef aquarium. I'm looking to get about 1.2-1.4 Watts of power. Does this kit, with the right 445nm diode, support that kind of power? Will I need an extension tube for a 2nd 18650 battery, and/or a different driver than the one included in the kit? Sorry for newbie question. If you have it, please quote me for a stainless steel kit with the new focus ring (that looks like rocket launcher - that's so cool!), shipping to Wichita, KS. Thanks!

BTW, what is the lens included in the kit? Do you have the G2 lens, and how much?

Joe

Howdy

I would be glad to help you get what you want, can you please give me a link to the host/kit your looking at, there are several with the word Aurora in there title.

Thanks :0

Jeff...

Hi Jeff,

It's this one: http://laserpointerforums.com/f64/aurora-sh-032-kit-51476.html#post711053.

I'd like the $84 version w/ copper heat sink, and the new "rocket launcher" focus ring in the last pic. LOL. Also, I saw DTR's build thread with the FlexDrive 5 heatsinked to the gold dollar and was really impressed. I don't know much about the micro boost driver. Would you please recommend which is the best way to go with a single 18650 cell? Please give me a quote for the complete kit with the G2 lens if you have it (if not 3 elements glass will do). I probably won't see the difference. I'm somewhat handy, so I'm sure I can put it together. Thanks.

Phuc "Joe" Le

I need to remove the word Aurora from that thread, if you had said SH-032 I would have known right off.

Yes I have that host in stock and can make you a copper heat sink for it and I also have in stock the V5 flex drive which is the one I recommend and use in my builds, see here> http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/sale-v5-flex-drives-63653-5.html#post910006

I do have the glass 3 element lenses in stock and they are $10.00 each, they have a better beam profile than the G2.

I have silicone wire kits that will make the job of putting it together much easier, if you have never used silicon insulated wire your in for a nice surprise, they are only $1.50 per kit, see here> http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/laser-wiring-kit-67288.html#post969689

Here is some flux, I do use it on every solder joint I make, if your already a good solder then you may not need it but like I said I use it on every joint and I been soldering for over 40 years see here> http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/solder-flux-68199-2.html#post983856

You will need a battery contact board, I will throw that in for free.

So the bottom line with the kit you get the SS host with a copper heat sink that fit's as tight as is possible, a Aixiz module and a V5 flex drive that is $84.00.

You will still need a lens and laser diode, do you need me to set the current on the driver ? that is $3.00 and I will attach 4 each silicone leads for $1.00.

A HYDRA style focus adapter to fit the SH-032 host is $20.00

Let me know and I'll give you a total…

Jeff,

Thanks for itemizing it for me. It doesn't get clearer than that. OK, I will need:
1. SS host with copper sink and Flexdrive 5
2. Hydra style focus adapter
3. 3 element glass lens
4. silicon wire kit (yeah I used some aircraft grade silicon wire when I rebuilt my tube amps. They're nice. the jacket melts at so much higher temp - more forgiving to solder newbie. I got good practice from them.)
5. thanks for the battery contact!
6. Please set the current on the drive and solder the leads

I have some flux and lead-free solder. Love the flux, I wouldn't solder without it. Man, I wish you sell the diode too. It would have been a one-stop-shop for me (except the batteries). If you don't have one, or can't sell one (I haven't got to read the laws and restrictions on selling lasers yet), please recommend for me a 445nm diode (and seller) that will work good with the driver and 18650. I'd appreciate it very much. I guess you'll need to know what kind of diode first before you set the current right? I'll paypal you as soon as I get a total.

Phuc

Are you in the states ?

Yes I do have 445 laser diodes (I thought you already had one so I didn't say anything about them) they are $50.00 each but they have been tested by me and are guaranteed not to be dead

I also have 18650 cells and chargers if your interested.

Let me know…

I'm in Wichita, Kansas. I'm interested in the diode (if it's rated at least 1W or more) and the batteries (2ea.) and charger. I'm looking at Panasonic 18650s on ebay. If you have them, I'd like to get them from you. I was going to buy Ultra Fire batteries but DTR said to stay away from them on his ebay listings. The bottom line is I'm looking for Japan instead of Chinese cells. Thanks.

My 445's are from a M-140 projector so they can easily do 1W or more and as I said I have tested them to 700ma as that is what they run at in the projector, you will get it in a zip bag with the spec's.

I do carry Samsung 18650 cells they are the Jap type and not the Chinese type and are $6.00 each I bought 20ea of them from a LPF member and the dual charger is $10.00

I have used ultrafire 18650 cells and they are not bad but they are not good for high power use.

Later...

Cool,

Please give me a total for:
1. SS host with copper sink and Flexdrive 5
2. Hydra style focus adapter
3. 3 element glass lens
4. silicon wire kit
5. thanks for the battery contact!
6. Please set the current on the drive (to 1.6-1.7A? or whatever you think is best for M140. DTR suggested 1.7) and solder the lead
7. 445nm diode
8. charger
9. 3x18650 batteries

and shipping cost to:

CCH Inc.
Phuc Le
9111 E. Douglas Ave., Ste. 200
Wichita, KS 67207

Thanks,
Phuc

Fairly normal up until this point. Now comes the question about soldering leads to the diode and pressing it into a module:

BTW, would you solder leads to the diode and press it into the Aixiz for me too? Just figure the fees for that into the total please. I know you sell a press, but I won't be building too many lasers to need one. although the nice laser patterns you have on your sig line caught my eye. Maybe someday i'll learn how to make something like that, my daughters would love to see that.

Flaminpyro refuses, citing his policy, and asks for proof of age. Also asks if the buyer is "all thumbs."

So basically you want me to build it for you is that correct ?

I don't really do that, I do not supply working lasers, I do however supply kits, can you assemble things or are you all thumbs ? there will be no soldering !

And I will need some kind of proof that you are over 18 years old, if your an adult you will understand I would not like to sell your young son or daughter
something they could hurt them self's or others with with out you knowing about it and if your not an adult then please forget about it as it's not going to happen.

Jeff...

This is the bit where DTR is brought in. For whatever reason, shortround92 decides not to provide proof of ID and declines to continue negotiation:

LOL, no need to go that route. I'm not asking you to build it for me. I could have easily go to DTR's site and buy the combos he has, drop it in any sink/host, add battery and be done with it. I like your SS host and the focusing ring you have. That's why I contacted you. I like to build things as much as any geeks and would have liked to build these lasers. Thing is, I need it fast to kill these pest aptaisas that's spreading in my tank. No I'm no kid (apparently my mentioning of having daughters didn't do much) and no i'm not all thumbs. I built this LED light for my tank (not to brag or anything)

I know lasers is a touchy feely subjects, and like I said I haven't spent time reading up on the rules and regulations and such. I am however well aware of its danger and have invested in some good goggles from LaserVision and will put a lock on my fish room door so that my kids won't come in while I laze away at these bastards. Anyway, I would feel silly trying to prove that I'm a 40 year old to you for a stupid laser. Nevermind about the whole thing. Thanks for your time. I guess I'll look elsewhere.

The correspondence continued despite the close of the last message.

It could be argued that the close of this first paragraph is somewhat condescending ("guess you didn't get that point"):

Wow You are offended sorry for that but it's nothing personal as you have seen to take it it's more about not selling a completed powerful laser to your daughter or any ones daughter, guess you didn't get that point.

So do you still want to buy the parts if so I will sell them to to you.

Have a good day in any case

Jeff...

The reaction that follows is somewhat unwarranted IMO, but it is what it is. I can see how "you are nothing to me" could be misconstrued...

The point about what other people sell is interesting. A big show is made about not selling complete lasers, but we do sell people modules that just require touching wires to a battery. I think it's a fair critique of us as a community.

hell yeah I'm offended, but I don't take it personally because you are nothing to me - neither friend or family. it's business. You could have said you don't sell completed lasers for liability and safety reasons and I would have respected that. No need to be condescending and ask for proof of age and stupid shit like that when you're well aware that i'm an adult. Go wag your finger :tsk: at guys like DTR and ApexProxy, who according to you, are essentially irresponsible for selling basically complete functioning lasers. I suppose that will make you feel you're on a moral high ground. Pressing a diode into a module and soldering a couple wires does not make a complete laser. Pleez. Call me lazy and I would have laugh with you, but don't lecture me about safety. I own handguns and I would have treat a laser with the same respect. There's a difference between a noob and a child. You should know that. Don't get them mixed up. I guess this answered your question. BTW, thank you for your concern.

I don't really have any commentary for this next message. It's a reaction to somewhat of an overreaction / rant.

Wow you are a tightly strung person aren't you, I was simply trying to prevent an under age person from hurting them selves and you have taken it to a whole different level, now your putting words in my mouth that I never said and don't believe, the part where you said I wag my fingers at DTR and Apex, well you couldn't be farther from the truth as both are good friends and me and Jordan/DTR and I buy stuff together all the time.

Also I was never condensing to you, it would seem to me you like to blow things out of proportion and I will be informing the rest of the forum of your actions and your childish attitude so have fun buying something here.

By the way I will be paraphrasing some of your off the wall comments in open forum so others will see what they will have to put up with if they deal with you !

Later...

I don't usually do this for just anyone but I have made an exception in your case, see here> http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/bad-vibes-shortround-92-a-86308.html#post1253211

Now if you would like to apologize for being an ass-hat I would reconsider your order and I may even fill it.

Later...

...and the rebuttal and summary:

Wow, you are so kind. we had a private conversation which started off polite. i remember thanking you each time. then you went off with the child thing and basically saying I want you to build a laser for me simply by me asking you to press the diode. You could have worded that better. That invoked a mild respond from me which I also politely told you I'm an adult - not trying to prove - I don't feel I need to prove to you my age because i don't need the laser enough to do that. I thank you for your time and it could have ended there. Then further condescending message from you telling me that I took it personally, which I did not like I said. It's business, if you don't want to sell, I said thank you and go somewhere else. So a private conversation became a forum discussion where you totally took things out of context (and you accused me of that). WHat I meant was if you consider what I asked you to do amounts to building a complete laser for me, which you don't do because it's unsafe, then isn't Apex and DTR essentially selling complete lasers too (i know for certain Apex sells complete units). So is that bad too? I did not disparage DTR or Apex in anyway. In fact I was even considering to buy from them. But in your thread, you twisted it around or at least presented one side, which made Apex think i talked bad about him. What you did is like sitting with your friends, talking bad about some dude, and everyone agreed with you cuz they're your friends and the dude is helpless and subject to ridicules and bashing from people who knew nothing about him. At least not even half the story. So after you did what you did and now you wanted me to apoligize so MAYBE you will grant my Christmas wish of a laser? [Chuckle] do you have the monopoly on lasers? LIke i said, I'm a reefer, not a laser junkie. This laser will be a tool to maintain my tank, not having it won't kill me or my reef. There are other ways. And yes, there other ways to obtain a laser if you want it bad enough - san forums. So don't think for a moment that by blacklisting me on the forum will prevent me from getting one. Unless you sent emails to all the vendors out there informing them what an ass I am. I won't stoop as low to offer you an apology. If i reallized I may have overreacted, I might have offered an apology in private. But this isn't private anymore. You have a great day.

From the ass-hat. LOL

At least from this transcript, I can definitely see both sides of it. There isn't any ground that is 100% defensible on either side.

If I got asked to send someone on the internet I didn't know a scanned copy of my driver's license or something, I'd probably turn them down and look elsewhere too.

There's definitely a lot of bits of this string of PM's that would be easy to misconstrue and take offense at, which I think is the key to this whole disagreement.

I think it would be counterproductive to blame any one party for this transaction failing; I think it should remembered as just that - a failed transaction.

Trevor

 

[SerpantSlayer]

Hi All,

Since a private conversation became a forum thread, for the sake of transparency here is the full conversation for your viewing. It seems Jeff did not present it as it is and some of you may have gotten only one side of the story. Read it and make your judgement. I'm not making an apology or even trying or trying to change your views of me so that I can get a laser. Just trying to clarify things, especially to DTR and Apex, since they were mentioned in the pm.

View attachment 43509

View attachment 43510

Cheers,
Phuc

Looks exactly how Jeff presented it....

 

[shortround92]

Trevor,
Thanks for putting in the work, and thanks for being fair and subjective given the full context.

SerpantSlayer,
How is it that Jeff presesent it as it is?

He said this: So he got offended that I would ask him this question and he sent me a nasty PM and said to forget the order that he would buy from some one else.

But he didn't post what I said (the 1st decline), which if you're fair minded, would have concluded that it's not nasty at all. But what's done is done. I'm just glad I got the opportunity to clarify. I may still be an ass-hat to some of you, but that's ok by me.