ATTN:welders, fabricators, machinist, others. It's your health!

[Down with Umbrella]

Hey..

Yesterday my supervisor told me to weld galvanized steel in a semi confined space. I said "hey, let me get my respirator and clean this up real quick with a grinder"

He responded by saying "weld it how it is or were going to have problems! do not clean the galvie off."

I REFUSED
Zinc oxide is a toxic gas.
NO I WILL NOT RISK MY HEALTH for your bs agenda.:tsk:

This could apply to anyone in any work place. Lasers included. The moral of this story is don't be a Yes man. When it comes to your safety do what you know is right.
This is what OSHA has to say about it:
"Zinc is used in large quantities in the manufacture of brass, galvanized metals, and various other alloys. Inhalation of zinc oxide fumes can occur when welding or cutting on zinc-coated metals. Exposure to these fumes is known to cause metal fume fever. Symptoms of metal fume fever are very similar to those of common influenza. They include fever (rarely exceeding 102o F), chills, nausea, dryness of the throat, cough, fatigue, and general weakness and aching of the head and body. The victim may sweat profusely for a few hours, after which the body temperature begins to return to normal. "

 

[Down with Umbrella]

He got mad started yelling "fine I'll weld it!" So I handed him the stinger and hood and he says " um um whatever... Clean it"
So HE cleaned the whole row of supports and apparently didn't tell the superintendent. He knows he was wrong. It won't happen again.

 

[Hemlock_Mike]

I helped in a welding shop for about 11 years. The old owner
knew of the danger and we always used ventilation. He told me
that if you get too much fume, drink a bunch of milk !!!
I never had to do that.
HMike

 

[DTR]

I always worry about the fumes form the solder when I remove diodes from the diode blocks. They are assembled in China and suspect they don't use the most human friendly solder.

 

[Razako]

I always worry about the fumes form the solder when I remove diodes from the diode blocks. They are assembled in China and suspect they don't use the most human friendly solder.

Solder is nothing to be too concerned about. The lead is an issue, but it only becomes airborne if you really overheat it.

 

[Down with Umbrella]

The best way with any smoke, welding or soldering is to avoid the smoke plume. That can be hard because often the best view is directly above.

Metal fume fever (welding galvanized) isn't so easy to avoid. Proper safety percautions can be taken to avoid this by using a respirator or cleaning it off before welding.

 

[Sigurthr]

I worked as a welder for many years and was afflicted by Metal Fume Fever and even Zinc poisoning detectable by blood assay many times. Drinking WHOLE milk does indeed help tremendously, but there is about a six hour window at maximum where it will be effective after exposure.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE ONE WELDING TO GET SICK. I often flat out refused to work on galvy without thoroughly cleaning it off and as a result they gave the galvy projects to one of my co-workers. The building had a high ceiling (45ft or so) and his station was about 65ft away from mine. Never the less, after an hour or two of him starting the fumes were so pungent by my station that the headaches and blurry vision would start. The entire shop felt the effects, but I was the only one naïve enough to complain about the safety hazards. In the end I was fired for it.

Zinc isn't the only hazard...

The next shop I worked at mostly had TIG welding (and I was a TIG welder) so there were many electrode sharpening stations, but no dust collection or extraction provided. Most TIG electrodes used today are 2% ThO2 - Thorium Dioxide, which is radioactive. It is a low level radioactive compound, primarily an alpha emitter with a small percentage of beta emissions. Unfortunately, alpha emitters do the most damage when they enter the body, despite doing almost no damage externally. The grinding stations had approximately four pounds of electrode dust built up from 40 years of continuous use. I brought my beta-gamma sensitive Geiger counter in one day and took a reading of 30,000 counts/min from one foot away from the sharpening station. You could see the metal dust sparking in the air whenever bright lighting was used in the shop. We had a couple of slow days in the middle of our slow season that we used to tidy up the shop a bit. I decided to carefully collect all the electrode dust from the sharpening stations and put it in an old coffee can for safe storage.

A few months went by and the unthinkable happened; one of my bosses was straightening up in the shop while we were all on break (at our stations). We didn't pay it much attention. It was a windy day and since it often reached about 118F in the shop we would open the loading bay doors and the emergency exit doors to let a cross breeze in. While we were enjoying our break we noticed a metallic dust cloud sweeping across the shop which was making us cough a bit as it was a LOT of dust. We went to investigate and headed across the shop to the loading bay area. Our boss decided to chuck the can of electrode dust out the loading bay because he wanted to reuse the coffee can for some loose fasteners. It caught the wind and blew right back into the shop, coating everything, and all of us.

After getting fired for complaining about safety hazards in my last job I never said anything about the hazardous state of the electrode waste. This shop's attitude wasn't much better than the last and I NEEDED my job. So, when we got doused with fine radioactive particulate matter and had breathed a fair amount in I kept my trap shut. The damage was done, and there was no point in raising a ruckus about it. I went and washed up in the restroom and never told anyone in the shop the truth about what had just happened to us.

I'm sure the dosage we received wasn't enough to raise immediate concerns, but who knows how we'll be in the long term. To this day there are metal inclusions that show up on my chest x-rays.

 

[ARG]

I always worry about the fumes form the solder when I remove diodes from the diode blocks. They are assembled in China and suspect they don't use the most human friendly solder.

You don't have to use a fume extractor, a fan will do. That's all it takes, have it blowing across your work station and you wont be huffing fumes.

Solder is nothing to be too concerned about. The lead is an issue, but it only becomes airborne if you really overheat it.

Flux fumes are not good for you, and most solder has flux in it now.

 

[djQUAN]

I always worry about the fumes form the solder when I remove diodes from the diode blocks. They are assembled in China and suspect they don't use the most human friendly solder.

The fumes are only from the flux. If it's a well known brand (Ka$io?), chances are that the solder used would be a good quality one even if it's made in China. At work, we have extensive standards to follow even with just the solder type/brand to use.

Also, equipment these days use lead free solder. But in my experience, lead free solders use more aggressive fluxes to wet better since lead free is poorer in that respect compared to lead solders. I had headaches when I had to solder a long time using lead free at work. I never had those problems when soldering with leaded solder at home.

 

[Down with Umbrella]

@ Sigurthr, I couldn't agree with you more on all your points. Also one thing you didn't mention was Chromium VI. When I weld high purity stainless that's when I get exposed to both hexavalent chromium and 2% ThO2. + whatever the lazy X-ray crew is exposing me to. When they come to shoot welds I'm no where to be found.
I've always wanted to see what my 2% tungsten would read on a Geiger counter but never had the chance because I was never around.

From what I know about solder(not a lot) is it's safer then it used to be.

 

[Sigurthr]

A 3/32 2% Thoriated electrode barely registers at about 30cpm above background for beta/gamma with optimal geometry and a fairly sensitive GM tube. I've verified this myself. The alpha readings though I have not verified but were reported to be around 10000cpm for an unbroken electrode at point blank - this is because the high density of the tungsten self-shields against any radiation from internal atoms, so all you are reading is the atoms exposed to air.

Yeah, Cr6 is a bitch. It is mostly a hazard in aqueous forms though IIRC, so welding isn't high on the hazard list. Also, I seem to remember reading that Cr4 is more common when welding.

I really wouldn't worry about the lead from solder at all. Unless you're heating a solder pot way too high or licking your fingers between fillets you'll be just fine.

Unfortunately when you're looking in to becoming a welder they don't tell you about the hazards. Sure they mention the UV, that's obvious. It is the insidious hazards which get you and the industry attitude that the more you sacrifice your health as a worker the more valuable you are. Couple that with this poor, flailing economy, and the line up of people who will do anything to have your (or any) job; what you get is an atmosphere which stifles anyone trying to do things safely that makes waves.

 

[Hemlock_Mike]

Wow Sig --- I never thought about ThO2 in a TIG electrode.
Thanks for the head's up on this.
HMike

 

[Down with Umbrella]

I know... what would Emma Goldman say hmm. In welding the money's good I accept some risk. Not to the extent in the OP though. One thing worth noting about the tungsten is usually it's not a single piece but a collection of sharpened sticks. I keep mine in a 304 stainless tube. I wonder if that provides any/how much addition shielding.

I have flown with it before the Airlines either can't detect it or know what it is. My guess is its radioactive signature isn't concentrated enough? Example: a crate full of bananas. (K-40)

 

[Sigurthr]

I remember reading something recently that most professional radiation scanners are set to filter out the natural isotope photon energies so that ore collections, old fossils, bananas, etc don't trigger false alarms. Th is a naturally occurring radioisotope in both the Uranium and Radium decay chains. What rad scanners are looking for is mostly very intense sources for dirty bombs or fissile isotopes.

I kept my electrodes in a 304L tube as well, none of the weak betas will get through even 1/16" of 304 steel, but the faint gamma signature will. Just blends in with background though, as it is incredibly weak.

Fun little tidbit; alpha source + low atomic number metal = neutron source (called an Urchin). Don't store large alpha sources in aluminium. Tig electrodes don't really count though, they're low level sources even for alpha.

 

[Down with Umbrella]

Wow Sig --- I never thought about ThO2 in a TIG electrode.
Thanks for the head's up on this.
HMike

2% ThO2 is marked with a red band.(I think there is a 1% too) Pure tungsten is marked green, and lanthanated tungsten is marked with a blue band. Right now, and I'm not sure why but there is a shortage of 2% so they have been substituting the 2%thor. With tungsten with a purple band.

They(air gas, etc) claim it has superior weldability over 2%. I've tested it and personal think it's nothing special. I'm not sure what it's alloys are. That's probably proprietary.

 

[123splat]

Ask your supervisor:
1) can he spell 'OSHA', and,
2) would he like to meet your attorney?