Alien Life

[Ears and Eggs]

Wonder what people though about this. We'll probably never know for sure in our lifetimes, but still fun to speculate.

Something like the Drake Equation can give some kind of guess as to how likely an advanced civilization exists as we have a good idea about what the first three values are, the last four are anyone's guess though.

What would you guess for the last four values?

 

[paul1598419]

I have no idea, but it certainly seems plausible. This is really just the most rank speculation as no one really has any idea. Far too many unknown variables in your equation.

 

[Encap]

I have no idea, but it certainly seems plausible. This is really just the most rank speculation as no one really has any idea. Far too many unknown variables in your equation.

exactly--probabilities are just that, imaginings about what might be or happen. There is no "probability" that anything other than what actually happened or happens, can happen--the proof is what actually happened or happens, If it were different it would be but it isn't.
Everything is possible in imagination --not so in the real world, so....
There is no evidence of 'life" anywhere but here/on earth and sometimes even that is debatable...at least the intelligent life part is :crackup:

 

[NightExplorer96]

I voted yes. Who are we to say, with our farthest trips into space with humans being the Moon, a mere backyard length away in terms of the universe. What, or who, are we to determine what is intelligent or technology?

I'm pretty hopeful that we aren't alone, the universe is just too big of a place for being only us, but who knows! If we really are alone, as my signature from Carl Sagan says, "it would be a waste of space".

-Alex

 

[Alaskan]

Whether the Drake equation is too tight or giving to the posibilities is a complete unknown. From my perspective, I baulk at the question whether there are other sentient technological civilisations all together, once you see a craft for yourself close up which is far beyond what I believe humanity is capable of producing, the folk who are making statements questioning the reality of such are understood to be way behind the power curve on this reality. It's like DUH, once you see for yourself, no longer a question to ponder.

Here's an interesting YouTube video, wish I had been there to see this, I'd have wanted to turn the boat around and head to them for a better look:

 

[CurtisOliver]

I voted yes with technology and civilisations. I have many reasons for believing so from logical ones to pure gut feeling.
But as you have included the Drake equation I’ll discuss that.

This is long post so feel free to skip by.

The Drake equation is merely a perspective. It is highly variable and evolves over time. It is a clever, simple and logical approach to putting a value down on paper. But it only gives you the number of civilisations that we are capable of detecting using current technology standards and the same for the detectees. It doesn’t measure those we can’t detect, and it doesn’t take into account inferior/superior science and technology. For example, those civilisations may not be emitting a signal strong enough to be detected or if they are, our detectors may not be sensitive enough. We also have a line of sight, which limits our ability to intercept signals and vice versa.

As for the last few factors, they are more dependent on our understanding than they are natural law. The discovery of commonplace exoplanetery systems is enough to shoot the number up drastically. The Goldilocks zone may be smaller/larger than we previously thought. That would influence the factors quite significantly. The concept of a Goldilocks zone might be entirely false and isn’t necessary. Not saying it is false however, just pointing out how something as simple as that can affect the results. The more we learn the more our understanding affects the outcome. And in 99% of cases it actually increases the probability of detecting life.

Another thing that limits us when we think of meeting civilisations is good old general relativity. Matter can’t travel faster than light. This is true. If a civilisation 500 ly wanted to visit us it would mean that it would take them >500 yrs to reach us. But what we are not accounting for is science and technology beyond our own. It is nearly impossible to predict with certainty what our own technological level will be in 1000+ years from now. Let alone what another civilisations capability is.
Just look at quantum physics here on Earth compared to classical mechanics to get an idea of some of the universes oddities. We have achieved and made things that were impossible only a relatively short time ago. There is absolute certainty that there is a lot more to be found out about the universe and possibly even the multiverse along with extra dimensions. This is some of the reasons why I do not rule out the possibility of intelligent life outside of the Earth.

Encap, unfortunately I have to disagree with you on the idea that probabilities don’t exist. If the universe was as black and white as you think, then we wouldn’t have much of the technology we take for granted today. I too used to think like that, and I totally understand why. The wave function is absolutely crucial in modern day science and all that is, is a probability. Quantum tunnelling is heavily dependent on it and if it had to exist as black and white, then it too wouldn’t exist. Also the multiverse theory is also highly dependent on probability.

 

[lasersbee]

It seems egoistic to think we are the only intelligence
in the entire universe....IMO

But I am hesitant to accept all the UFO sightings I've
heard of or seen to date.

It is beyond me that with everyone and their brother
taking Billions of selfies that no one has a clear video
or photos of these UFOs or even UFO aliens.
All the video or pics I've seen are blurry and shaky...

Jerry

 

[CurtisOliver]

Yep, I see what your saying. I don't believe every sighting that someone claims either, but I do believe in some. Also regarding the last point. If we did happen to get a clear shot of a UFO and publish it. Would we be inclined to believe it anyway? It is almost guaranteed to be argued as photoshopped, or CGI. In other words fake. And not surprisingly either unfortunately, as too many do try faking them. Due to that, it makes it incredibly difficult to believe and take ufology seriously.

 

[Alaskan]

I also question many UFO sightings myself, I’ve seen some videos claimed to be craft which were clearly birds, even one with a moth flying through a recorded night vision device. It’s when you see one close up hovering and then zipping off at an immediate speed beyond our jet craft you loose all doubt. However, stories like this have little value beyond pondering the report for those who didn’t experience it themselves. I’m reporting on it anyway, better than being silent.

Regarding the speed limitation of objects with mass through space, to get to another star system space is certainly too vast to travel through at sub light speed, but there are theories of how to get around that limitation, once we can produce enough energy; a warp drive might indeed be in our future to ride a warped bubble of space to move space, there is no limitation to how fast we could travel from one star system to the next under such as we would not be traveling through space, instead, moving space while we ride the wave faster than light.

 

[Encap]

Encap, unfortunately I have to disagree with you on the idea that probabilities don’t exist. If the universe was as black and white as you think, then we wouldn’t have much of the technology we take for granted today. I too used to think like that, and I totally understand why. The wave function is absolutely crucial in modern day science and all that is, is a probability. Quantum tunnelling is heavily dependent on it and if it had to exist as black and white, then it too wouldn’t exist. Also the multiverse theory is also highly dependent on probability.

You misunderstood what I was saying, I think. I have edited my post.
Of course "probability" exists by definition and in the sense of it being an invented mathematical construct a product of the human mind-- an artificial or maybe a better terms in internal mental tool invented by man, same as quantum mechanics, that some find useful for certain purposes. Is all just another "invented" way of looking at what you already know--a tool

It seems egoistic to think we are the only intelligence
in the entire universe....IMO

But I am hesitant to accept all the UFO sightings I've
heard of or seen to date.

It is beyond me that with everyone and their brother
taking Billions of selfies that no one has a clear video
or photos of these UFOs or even UFO aliens.
All the video or pics I've seen are blurry and shaky...

Jerry

Agree.

Yep, I see what your saying. I don't believe every sighting that someone claims either, but I do believe in some. Also regarding the last point. If we did happen to get a clear shot of a UFO and publish it. Would we be inclined to believe it anyway? It is almost guaranteed to be argued as photoshopped, or CGI. In other words fake. And not surprisingly either unfortunately, as too many do try faking them. Due to that, it makes it incredibly difficult to believe and take ufology seriously.

Keep in mind “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away"
Whatever so called "sightings" actually are and "whyever" they are, my point it they are of no consequence in any way, shape, or form whatsoever. They simply don't matter, not even for a tenth of a second in any world for any reason other than imagination as entertainment and the business of "ufology" and it is a sizable business.
All of the sightings and all of "Ufology" + $4 will get you a good cup of coffee in the real world. It is as simple as that.

 

[Alaskan]

My thought is many who reject such are rejecting the real world themselves, simply because they haven't investigated this to much depth themselves, most everyone who does, do not so easily reject it. Doesn't matter, what is, is, regardless of their unfounded beliefs to the contrary. Very simple on the other side of the same coin my friend.

 

[paul1598419]

I doubt seriously that we have been visited by intelligent life from somewhere else in the universe. These "sightings" correspond to the advent of science fiction with plots of Martians attacking us and the advent of rockets. Prior to these you don't find claims of people seeing UFOs. Or, at least, not reported as such. Even at light speed the distances are daunting. This doesn't speak to the possibility of intelligent life somewhere else in the universe. But, with technology in the state that it is, it is still just rank speculation and no one knows either way.

 

[Alaskan]

Easy for you to say without having seen for yourself, understood.

 

[paul1598419]

Do you or someone you know have personal experience?

 

[Alaskan]

I did, just craft though, but the technology had to have been beyond our own by leaps, otherwise I wouldn’t think it was probably from another world.

 

[paul1598419]

Hmm. No possible way it could have been something else? No contact with extra terrestrial life? You saw a "craft"? Okay. :tinfoil: