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1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

RedCowboy

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Yea I had thought about posting that video too and some others, the reason we don't see much use of dazzlers here is because people have different thresholds for damage, some people have diseased retinas, some people have reduced blood flow, but our swat teams and swat robots use them and our military uses them just to get through traffic in a war zone, but the lawsuit dangers are too strong Stateside for every cop to have one, they do use pulsed led gun lights with aiming lasers but dazzlers are something we don't want to see criminals using, or carrying your pointer outside will be illegal, probably already is beyond 5mw in some places, I should check but I never take mine anywhere, it's not worth the risk.


 
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BobMc

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I saw this posting and it reminded me how effective bright light can be to temporarily blind. I think many of you are too young to remember flashcubes so won't know what this item was.

"We used to have something like that when I was growing up, it was called a Magic cube and if someone surprised you with a camera loaded with one you were temporarily blinded. If it was dark your night vision was gone for at least 30 minutes. Magnesium wool in flashbulb is incredibly bright."

Also an interesting product link and the first I've seen.
http://comight-tech.com/products/dazzlers/<br>

Just noticed the direct link is not working so click the company name after clicking the above link.

I'm old enough where I remember these flash bulbs. Haa, they were so bright!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~

they usually have two of them, unless a laser hobbyist who didn't believe in laser glasses.
That's pretty funny, thanks for the chuckles :crackup:
 
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RedCowboy

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paul1598419

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That's an insane price to pay for a flash cube. When I was a teenager we had single element flash bulbs filled with magnesium shavings, but had a filament to ignite the mag. It only took a 1.5 volt battery to ignite one and we used to do that when bored. Man, that takes me back.
 

RedCowboy

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Yea I remember the cubes and strips, the single bulbs were just before my time as I was into photography as a pre teen, getting mom to take me to the photomat and picking up photos days later, I remember mom saying not to waste film because it was expensive to get it developed. The electronic flash and cheapo 110 cameras came about in my early teenage years.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-M3B-Flashbulbs-12-qty-Camera-Vintage-Photography-Film/232563062289?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=41375&meid=d65c2cfe9ca140e793cb4d3909bf9eee&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=192087512350&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

 
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RB astro

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Haha, that's awesome.
This all reminds me of the classic Hitchcock ending in "Rear Window".
Anyone remember that one?

RB
 

paul1598419

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I remember the movie, but it's been years since I watched it. I remember many of Hitchcock's movies. Psycho was probably his best, though it was his wife that added the music that made that movie so great.
 

RB astro

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Hey Paul, I was fortunate enough to attend a very special event with my eldest daughter at the Sydney Opera House where
they were screening Psycho but the soundtrack was actually played live by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra.
The shower scene was amazing listening to the live orchestra accompaniment, (there was blood everywhere) :crackup: .

Very memorable.

:D
 
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paul1598419

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That would have been cool to experience. The music really did make that movie and people were terrified at the time by this B&W movie. Watch it without the music. Not nearly as terrifying.
 

steve001

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I'm old enough where I remember these flash bulbs. Haa, they were so bright!






That's pretty funny, thanks for the chuckles :crackup:
Yes, glass bulbs full of little magnesium ribbons with a primer in the stalk and a little spring loaded striker to pop them, I remember taking them apart, they last forever, they are still for sale as NOS on ebay but that R50 flashlight which is not the brightest will stun you just as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15x-GE-General-Electric-Magicubes-Magic-Cube-Polaroid-Big-Shot-Flash-TYPE-X-NOS/192087512350?hash=item2cb94ed51e:g:jgoAAMXQVT9TF4LB
That's an insane price to pay for a flash cube. When I was a teenager we had single element flash bulbs filled with magnesium shavings, but had a filament to ignite the mag. It only took a 1.5 volt battery to ignite one and we used to do that when bored. Man, that takes me back.


Yea I remember the cubes and strips, the single bulbs were just before my time as I was into photography as a pre teen, getting mom to take me to the photomat and picking up photos days later, I remember mom saying not to waste film because it was expensive to get it developed. The electronic flash and cheapo 110 cameras came about in my early teenage years.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-M3B-Flashbulbs-12-qty-Camera-Vintage-Photography-Film/232563062289?_trkparms=aid=888007&algo=DISC.MBE&ao=1&asc=41375&meid=d65c2cfe9ca140e793cb4d3909bf9eee&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=192087512350&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

Do you all recall how long the spot in your visual field would remain? A longtime. Now imagine being repeatedly strobed green laser light how all those spots would interfere with ones vision.
 

RedCowboy

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Yes but it needs to be green or white light, blue will not stimulate the natural defense mechanism that causes temporary bleaching of the rods/cones, blue will do damage but not cause the rapid and extreme temporary flash blindness, one reason why we need safety glasses as there's much less warning when we get too much blue light energy.
 
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steve001

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Yes but it needs to be green or white light, blue will not stimulate the natural defense mechanism that causes temporary bleaching of the rods/cones, blue will do damage but not cause the rapid and extreme temporary flash blindness, one reason why we need safety glasses as there's much less warning when we get too much blue light energy.
Whom are you replying to?
 

RedCowboy

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Whom are you replying to?
I was adding to your statement where you said " Now imagine being repeatedly strobed green laser light how all those spots would interfere with ones vision. " as it related to the OP's question where he asked about a 1W blue laser at 100-200 yards, I wanted to make the point about the wavelength being a factor, I was NOT attempting to correct your statement, just add information for readers who may not know that the wavelength also made a difference and why it matters.

I suppose I could have clarified that I was not attempting to correct you, but to add information so that a reader would not make an incorrect assumption that a blue laser might also produce the desired effect, but this is academic, a laser pointer should never be used or carried with the intent to be used as a self defense weapon.
 
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18LJ

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I would have to agree and say shining a light in a shooters eyes is probably the best way NOT to survive an active shooter situation, and im pretty sure lasers used as a weapon in any situation regardless of self defense are illegal. Worst case scenario if you did end up surviving you would face charges along with the shooter or the shooter would file a civil suit against you for damage to their vision. It sounds absurd but stranger things have certainly happened. My advice is to try and stop worrying about unlikely scenarios/threats which are impossible to predict or avoid, and if thats insufficient a cloud of pepper spray will likely be much more effective at incapacitating a raving lunatic with a gun. My mom had to help draft an active shooter plan/policy for her work and they had a security specialist come and meet with the board. The best survival strategy in situations where you are facing a shooter is to 1. Run 2. Hide if nowhere to run 3. If cornered with nowhere to hide....fight back. Even if your terrified and feeling helpless one person running up to physically attack a person with a gun is the one thing a gunman is least prepared for, and usually inspires others to take action and subdue the cowardly shooter. This is advice coming from a security expert who was part of a SWAT unit for many years, and its basically common sense... It is really unfortunate but a fact of life that there are people that are miserable and foolishly think that hurting other people because they have been hurt or wronged will somehow make up for their pain and misfortune, this is something that cannot be prevented or prepared for, the only thing you can do is love life and show love and kindness to others to offset the evil that exists in the world. On a semi related tangent, i got hit with a 2w 445 that reflected off a mirror in my lap and under my safety glasses (i should really look into finding goggles!) And i was not immediately blinded, or at all really, after momentary physical discomfort that selt sorta like a muscle cramp in my eyeball and a floating light in my field of vision that lasted a few minutes the only remainjng effect was my color vision was skewed for about 2 days, it was super wierd like that technicolor film stock from old movies or a muted instagram picture filter. It went away though thankfully and my next visit to the eye dr resulted in no discernible damage thankfully, however my point is getting hit in the eye with a laser wont stop anyone frkm being able to see well enough to shoot.
 

RedCowboy

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Yes, that's what I was also saying a few post back, it's very unlikely that any of us will ever face a maniac shooter, but we will deal with people who have had a bad day, so carrying a laser with self defense in mind could turn into blinding someone over a fist fight, it's not something that we ever want to hear about happening as it wont end well for anyone, also a shooter can fire bullets in your direction even if they cant see well or at all, but again a pointer should not be carried as a defensive weapon, it can turn the good guy into the bad guy in court regardless of why it happened.

Now before anyone says : But you can carry a gun for self defense. Yes that's because a firearm is designed to produce deadly force, a pointer can at best produce a cruel maiming.

The thing we must all understand is if you're a firearms owner the use of deadly force is a last ditch effort to only be used if you are reasonably in fear for your life, or to stop a forcible felony in some states, also some states have a " duty to retreat " law and even in my state where we have a " stand your ground " law it's understood that every attempt must be made to avoid a confrontation.

If someone grabs the shopping cart you had your hand on 1st and then insults your mother you are expected to say something like, sorry you feel that way, and walk away, you can't shoot someone because they hit you back first.

This is where carrying a laser as a possible means to stop a terrorist could turn into something used in a fist fight, if you can't be the better man or woman and walk away from a belligerent person then don't carry, not a gun or a knife or a water pistol full of battery acid, because blinding someone with a homemade laser or a squirt gun full of battery acid will likely be looked at under the same light in court.

Personally I would rather get punched in the nose and walk away than kill someone although I will defend my 75 year old father or my girlfriend as necissary, but if you face a disparity of force, meaning 2 against 1 or if you are elderly or have physical disability then you have a valid reason to use deadly force ( Know your State laws ) in a 1 on 1 encounter, but you are not in self defense if you provoke or step into the fray, to be within your rights you must first have tried to walk away, except when defending a loved one from attack.

It may seem crazy but carrying an implement that can only produce a cruel maiming ( blindness ) rather than flat out killing can and likely would be deemed as an intent to maim because you chose to carry and used it to maim in a confrontation. Also you can defend yourself with a gun without firing it, but again if you make a threat of force while holding a weapon you had better be in the right and that means walking away from a confrontation without provoking, but a bright flashlight and pepper spray gives you more latitude as your intent is not to kill or maim, only defend, still you must be in the right if you use it.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a lawyer, this is my opinion and correct to the best of my knowledge, you alone are responsible for knowing the law and for your actions.
 
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steve001

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I was adding to your statement where you said " Now imagine being repeatedly strobed green laser light how all those spots would interfere with ones vision. " as it related to the OP's question where he asked about a 1W blue laser at 100-200 yards, I wanted to make the point about the wavelength being a factor, I was NOT attempting to correct your statement, just add information for readers who may not know that the wavelength also made a difference and why it matters.

I suppose I could have clarified that I was not attempting to correct you, but to add information so that a reader would not make an incorrect assumption that a blue laser might also produce the desired effect, but this is academic, a laser pointer should never be used or carried with the intent to be used as a self defense weapon.
During the whole thread no one has addressed the actual question one way or another definitively. Excluding pointers could collimated bright light green from a dazzler stop an assailant in close quarters? Could it be useful against someone at distance. Looking at military videos it seem so, however I've not found specific research that it would be useful in close quarters. Having said that, experience with strobed light and with my class 4 532nm in a dark room switched off suddenly vision is compromised briefly. It's not difficult to imagine the longer lasting affect of a direct hit.The question remains unanswered though.
 
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