14 year old kid caugt lasering bus driver (NL)

[Benm]

You mean in the netherlands?

There is no law regulating posession of a laser of any power, nor importing one.

We do have a fda-equivalent that is supposed to keep dangerous goods off the consumer market, and they could ban the sale of powerful lasers to the general public, especially if they are marketed as a 'pointer', 'toy' or something similar.

As long as the vendor clearly indicates the device is dangerous and should not be used in public, there is no legal problem at all.

 

[borgqueenx]

You mean in the netherlands?

There is no law regulating posession of a laser of any power, nor importing one.

We do have a fda-equivalent that is supposed to keep dangerous goods off the consumer market, and they could ban the sale of powerful lasers to the general public, especially if they are marketed as a 'pointer', 'toy' or something similar.

As long as the vendor clearly indicates the device is dangerous and should not be used in public, there is no legal problem at all.

are you sure about that? i hear like 20 different opinions on this matter. one of those opinions must be a fact...

 

[Blord]

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. But there is one law. Maybe on the official government websites are some information about this issues ? Like the FDA in America.

I found one specific for the Netherland, http://www.vwa.nl/onderwerpen/producten-non-food/dossier/laserpointers

 

[borgqueenx]

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. But there is one law. Maybe on the official government websites are some information about this issues ? Like the FDA in America.

I found one specific for the Netherland, VWA | Producten (non-food)

It doesnt say anthing about legal/illigal so far ive seen.

 

[Benm]

There is no specific regulations in the netherlands where lasers are concerned. All the -general- demands on product safety do, however, apply. The legislation does NOT mention any specifc power level, and NO minimum age required to buy or own a laser of any power or wavelength.

The page linked at the VWA (dutch FDA equivalent of sorts) specifies that class 3B, 3R and 4 lasers are not allowed to be sold.. as laser pointers. The VWA is an agency that is primarily concerned with consumer safety regarding all kinds of products, from foodstuff to tools to bicycles.

The key point is that they control the safety of devices when used for their intended application. They could ban a particular model of hammer if the head flew of at random times. They could ban a laser pointer that outputs more than 5 mW that is -marketed as a pointing device-. If you market the laser as, for example, a cutting tool, there would be no objection at all, consumers are expected to know that they should not use cutting tools on their eyes.

Also, professional tools are treated differently from general consumer items. The important thing is that the consumer is never exposed to risks he does not know about. Marketing a 500 mW laser as a pointer is something like marketing a chainsaw as a nail clipper.. forbidden!

 

[borgqueenx]

Very nice to hear guys but still no facts.
I hear like 25 different things around me.... But mostly photonlexicon claims..and they hate pointers anyways. But here we love them.
So whats the truth? The law is big.
Here is the topic of PL:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php/12421-NLLEM-Ilpendam/page4
Can some dutch guy please help me clarify?
I can only see at the vwa link that selling is not allowed. But nothing about owning it

 

[Nanolaser]

Click Here..

Thanks Lazy L. for reminding fellow members that this has already been posted.

 

[Benm]

Please don't complain of 'no facts'. The only fact i can offer is that legislation is vague, and still open to interpretation and test trials in court.

There is a difference in the process of forming legislation between the US and the EU. In the EU, there is no -specific- legislation for lasers at all, but general consumer safety laws do apply.

The basis of legal proceedings here is that law has to be interpreted reasonably. This can boil down to selling a 500 mW laser as a presentation pointer being downright illegal, whilst selling the exact same laser for another purpose remains perfectly legal.

Owning lasers of any power or wavelength is not punishable as such in the EU. As soon as you use them to injure someone this changes, just as hitting someone in the head with a perfectly legal hammer is still assault.

The debate is only about the purpose you market something for, and if a product is or is not safe in such applications. A laser hair-removal device could be banned if it causes adverse effects like burns. This does not mean that selling or owning that device is a crime in itself, but it does mean you cannot market the device as a hair removal tool any longer.

These things haven't been tested in court often though. The only way to find out would be marketing something ridiculous for a safe application, like a 100W CO2 laser as a bbq starter. That would surely be very dangerous, but using a blowtorch wouldn't be much safer... if anyone wants to test that, be my guest

 

[borgqueenx]

Thanks for explaining

 

[HIMNL9]

Sorry, Benm, a little correction .....

In the EU, there is no -specific- legislation for lasers at all, but general consumer safety laws do apply.

Not in all the EU, only in civilized countries, maybe ..... here in Italy, anything over 1mW is banned by law (from "ministry of (in)sanity") ..... except for "scientific use", but, cause none have specified anything about "scientific use" in the law, judges can decide anything they want

The basis of legal proceedings here is that law has to be interpreted reasonably.

I hope you don't mean in Italy ..... the last time i've seen a law interpreted reasonably, here, was ..... well, NEVER

 

[borgqueenx]

so alright. if a cop shows up here at 31 december 23:59 and wants to take my lasers i can say no and show him the vwa article and other stuff saying there is no law?
If yes what consequences? can i say dont take my laser, take me with my laser to bureau so we can sort this out.

and foggers, are they allowed to run outside covering smoke across the street? (ofcource i wont bother citizens so they cant see their fireworks anymore)
btw my street is small. about 20 houses in total.

 

[solar00]

so alright. if a cop shows up here at 31 december 23:59 and wants to take my lasers i can say no and show him the vwa article and other stuff saying there is no law?
If yes what consequences? can i say dont take my laser, take me with my laser to bureau so we can sort this out.

and foggers, are they allowed to run outside covering smoke across the street? (ofcource i wont bother citizens so they cant see their fireworks anymore)
btw my street is small. about 20 houses in total.

In NL only class 1 and 2 lasers may be sold to the public.
It's illegal to sell class 3A and 3B lasers in the Netherlands (except for medical, industrial or scientific purposes of course)
However it's perfectly legal to own or import class 3A and 3B lasers if you're 18+ but a cop can still confiscate your laser when you use it outside because it's illegal to use them in a public place.
The information tells nothing about class 4 lasers...


There was an organisation(forgot the name) trying to make lasers illegal by law (due to some incidents with people shining on aircraft at Amsterdam airport) , but according to the government, shining lasers on aircraft or vehicles is already a felony so changing the law was not necessary.


Since november2010 it's Illegal to carry lasers in Haarlemmermeer (which is in the neighborhood of the airport), but this is only a local city law.


Still, it seems that customs sometimes confiscates lasers but I don't see what the reason is if you're allowed to own one.. can someone clarify this?

 

[Nanolaser]

so alright. if a cop shows up here at 31 december 23:59 and wants to take my lasers i can say no and show him the vwa article and other stuff saying there is no law?
If yes what consequences? can i say dont take my laser, take me with my laser to bureau so we can sort this out.

and foggers, are they allowed to run outside covering smoke across the street? (ofcource i wont bother citizens so they cant see their fireworks anymore)
btw my street is small. about 20 houses in total.

:san:

 

[Bluefan]

In NL only class 1 and 2 lasers may be sold to the public.
It's illegal to sell class 3A and 3B lasers in the Netherlands (except for medical, industrial or scientific purposes of course)
However it's perfectly legal to own or import class 3A and 3B lasers if you're 18+ but a cop can still confiscate your laser when you use it outside because it's illegal to use them in a public place.
The information tells nothing about class 4 lasers...

The first time I hear there's a law regarding lasers in the Netherlands, would you mind providing the source of this info? (bij voorkeur het wetboekartikel).

 

[Benm]

I would like to see the source for that information as well.