It's 2020... Can We Safely Store our Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries in Our Lasers Yet?

[FuzzyPancake]

UPDATE: TL;DR - as discussed below, storing li-ion batteries in lasers is widely agreed to be safe and carry minimal if any risk of fire, battery damage, or idle battery drain compared to other storage methods.
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(Note that I am specifically asking about lasers that use rechargeable li-ion batteries - not primary lithium batteries or other battery types)

Disregarding accidental laser exposure concerns for now, can we finally store our li-ion batteries in our lasers for convenience sake? These same batteries stay in smartphones 24/7 365 days a year for years and they virtually never have problems aside from reaching their 300-500 charge/discharge cycle limit. Is there something special in smartphone and other electronics' circuitry that allows them to have permanently fixed and safe batteries, or can we finally start storing our li-ion batteries in our lasers?

I tried looking for threads of the same nature, but they are over a decade old or close to it, so I'd like to raise the question once again now that li-ion batteries themselves and our knowledge of them has has matured significantly.

For a little context, I recently bought a Sanwu Pocket Series 492nm 100mw as a "daily carry" laser with the intention of using it every now and then for demonstration. The question popped into my head though... should I carry the 10440 battery outside of the laser? Given how li-ion batteries are permanently fixed in and sparingly used in things like portable speakers, I don't see any reason why I can't safely keep my 10440 battery inside my laser all the time.

 

[Z80 Lasers]

I've kept mine in multiple pointers for months and haven't had any problems.

 

[brendon7358]

I don't with mine mainly for the safety concerns if the laser turns on randomly. But if it's a lower powered laser I trust I leave the batteries in.

 

[LtKernelPanic]

I leave mine in my lasers all the time. Every few months I'll meter them and recharge as needed.

 

[Cyparagon]

What makes 2020 different? I've been leaving lithium cells in all my gadgets forever.

Alkalines pose more of a risk. Spewing their guts and corroding everything... Especially those Duracell fckers.

 

[FuzzyPancake]

What makes 2020 different? I've been leaving lithium cells in all my gadgets forever.

Maybe I'm alone with this perception then. For many years I've had the impression that leaving rechargeable li-ion batteries in electronics that didn't have them built-in already carried some level of fire risk and is 'not good for the battery'. I was reading a thread from 2006 on a different site about shipping batteries recently and a few people chimed in to note that shipping batteries outside of flashlights was preferred by shipping companies. One guy was apparently told by a USPS worker to remove batteries from a flashlight he had already packaged; however these folks were talking about primary lithium batteries.

I just took some time to find some official documentation about shipping batteries inside or outside of electronics (because shipping companies very very much want to limit fires, obviously) and didn't find anything especially relevant other than advice to make sure devices with batteries in them aren't turned on during shipping.

I did a bunch more reading into general battery storage and leaking hazards. There really doesn't seem to be any compelling argument against storing li-ion batteries inside of devices - especially if the device will be used even just every month or so. I'll update my OP soon with a " TL;DR we determined there are virtually zero risks compared to out-of-device storage" if I don't hear anybody say something compelling otherwise.

 

[DarkLord]

I just took some time to find some official documentation about shipping batteries inside or outside of electronics (because shipping companies very very much want to limit fires, obviously) and didn't find anything especially relevant other than advice to make sure devices with batteries in them aren't turned on during shipping.

True, when I received my parcels for most commercial lasers, I noticed they put the batteries inside the host, and at the bottom, there's a plastic wrapper sandwiched between the battery and the spring of the tail cap. For some odd reason, I've always seemed skeptical about lithium batteries being shipped while inside the electronic itself in general, even though it has a switch unlike smartphones don't.

Also, I haven't had any issues with leaving any batteries in my laser pointers for a while, but certainly I check on its juice to ensure it's in good shape.

 

[Soub]

An important difference with smartphones that suggests that batteries can be stored inside the laser is that lasers usually have a mechanical switch that opens the circuit and physically disconnects the battery, no?

 

[trussmonkey25]

I keep mine out in case someone else finds the laser and tries to turn it on.

 

[Coonie]

I'm sure companies and laboratories are working on this very important nonexistent issue with the highest priority! Because it's the year 2020!

 

[FuzzyPancake]

I'm sure companies and laboratories are working on this very important nonexistent issue with the highest priority! Because it's the year 2020!

The reason for mentioning the year was to emphasize that this has not been debated for 8+ years in this forum or similar forums, and in relevant threads it was very common for people to say they store their batteries outside of their lasers and/or in special cases.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised a guy with a Team Rocket .png in his signature in a forum for lasers doesn't have the social intuition to understand the nuance of my title after reading the body.

 

[Coonie]

If you felt you had to start a thread over battery paranoia then it isn't me who is lacking understanding

 

[Snecho]

I found the title confusing as well.

 

[bertha]

Maybe I'm alone with this perception then. For many years I've had the impression that leaving rechargeable li-ion batteries in electronics that didn't have them built-in already carried some level of fire risk and is 'not good for the battery'. I was reading a thread from 2006 on a different site about shipping batteries recently and a few people chimed in to note that shipping batteries outside of flashlights was preferred by shipping companies. One guy was apparently told by a USPS worker to remove batteries from a flashlight he had already packaged; however these folks were talking about primary lithium batteries.

I just took some time to find some official documentation about shipping batteries inside or outside of electronics (because shipping companies very very much want to limit fires, obviously) and didn't find anything especially relevant other than advice to make sure devices with batteries in them aren't turned on during shipping.

I did a bunch more reading into general battery storage and leaking hazards. There really doesn't seem to be any compelling argument against storing li-ion batteries inside of devices - especially if the device will be used even just every month or so. I'll update my OP soon with a " TL;DR we determined there are virtually zero risks compared to out-of-device storage" if I don't hear anybody say something compelling otherwise.

+1

 

[FuzzyPancake]

If you felt you had to start a thread over battery paranoia then it isn't me who is lacking understanding

Over battery paranoia? You either use the term extremely loosely or do not know what it means. I made it abundantly clear that I was highly skeptical of there being any danger. If keeping my batteries in plastic cases and not in my lasers is paranoia, what would you call the people that put their batteries in fire proof boxes? Is buzzed driving the same as drunk driving to you too?

I did lack understanding of battery science. So I asked a question. Is that not what this forum is for?

Your intention was to mock me and you added nothing to the conversation in doing so. Cyparagon even made the same joke before you in this same thread.

I found the title confusing as well.

Now that I have explained why my title is what it is, I'm genuinely curious to know why we found it confusing and worth mocking me for.

I'm not going to say my title is perfect because if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation... but I do know that when somebody says, for example, "it's 2020... why do iPhones still not use USB-C?" I understand the colloquialism to mean that it has been many years now since USB-C should have been implemented - not that 2020 is a special year for standardized data transfer and charging interfaces.

 

[Coonie]

Over battery paranoia? You either use the term extremely loosely or do not know what it means. I made it abundantly clear that I was highly skeptical of there being any danger. If keeping my batteries in plastic cases and not in my lasers is paranoia, what would you call the people that put their batteries in fire proof boxes? Is buzzed driving the same as drunk driving to you too?

I did lack understanding of battery science. So I asked a question. Is that not what this forum is for?

Your intention was to mock me and you added nothing to the conversation in doing so. Cyparagon even made the same joke before you in this same thread.

Now that I have explained why my title is what it is, I'm genuinely curious to know why we found it confusing and worth mocking me for.

I'm not going to say my title is perfect because if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation... but I do know that when somebody says, for example, "it's 2020... why do iPhones not use USB-C?" I understand the colloquialism to mean that it has been many years now since USB-C should have been implemented - not that 2020 is a special year for standardized data transfer and charging interfaces.

Buzzed driving is drunk driving according to the law. You keep freaking out about batteries but while doing so you're acting like an entitled, insulting little princess. Demanding how people should respond to you, what they can and cannot say. Stop acting like a child. People who say "it's *year*" is always followed by a dumb question that implies ignorance of common sense.
You told us not to say something along the lines of "keep the batteries out to be safe" and whatever else (you since removed that part out of your post) so what else is there to say to you?
It's 2020 and you expected that this "problem" should have been solved. You didn't simply ask, you came on with a huge attitude and then threw personal insults. Not a good way to ask for help.