$7/gallon for "regular" (89Oct)!!!

BTW, i'm wondering how much peoples knows that Henry Ford started his original cars business with ELECTRIC cars, and turned to combustion motors for the pressures of petrol lobbies .....

HIMNL9 said:

True ..... but there is a big difference, between start a factory for produce Hydrogen from chemical dissociation, and place some solar panels on a roof or unused ground and left the sun work for you dissociating common water

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Exactly. We have all the energy needed from the sun. COP-Infinity...We could have tax paid hydrogen stations which electrolyze water all day from the sun, but of course that doesn't make the oil mongers, billions of dollars..

Do you guys think we can't do any better than 20% efficient solar panels?

"The use of solar energy has not been opened up because the oil industry does not own the sun." - Ralph Nader

Anyways there is a set of researchers in Japan who were achieving 800+% efficiency in their electrolyzer..

Also scientist on youtube has successfully sustained a hydrogen flame with less than 2 watts input, but he has since deleted that particular video, I still have it though. Point is, there are much better ways to electrolyze water than the old primitive methods using brute force. Stan meyer had his buggy running off hydrogen with no input..The day before he was going to sign the military contracts to build jeeps, he was poisoned. Bob Boyce, is another who has also achieved success. Not surprising he found a rfid tag embedded into his arm..

HIMNL9 said:

BTW, i'm wondering how much peoples knows that Henry Ford started his original cars business with ELECTRIC cars, and turned to combustion motors for the pressures of petrol lobbies .....

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You would be surprised what Henry Ford had up his sleeve.. His electric setup in the original model t had the capability to self-run with no input, using a set of horseshoe magnets in a certain configuration. He supposedly was going to be shut down, then threatened to include the "missing" part which would make it self-run.

http://keelynet.com/energy/ford.htm

Anyways there is a set of researchers in Japan who were achieving 800+% efficiency in their electrolyzer..

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efficiency > 100%?
LOL wut

Also scientist on youtube

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Real scientist publish peer-reviewed papers, don't post videos on youtube.

Model T Magnetic Modification

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HHAHAHAAHAHHA, you don't really believe that old story about magnetic motors
that magically run themselves, do you?
Like that company of crooks, Steorn?

You should read up on thermodynamics, especially the 1st law.
If you continue to keep on spewing that kind of woo around here, it will
be my pleasure to call BS on you everytime it applies.

anselm said:

efficiency > 100%?
LOL wut

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You heard me.

anselm said:

efficiency > 100%?
Real scientist publish peer-reviewed papers, don't post videos on youtube.

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MIT has a youtube channel, so I guess they aren't real?

anselm said:

HHAHAHAAHAHHA, you don't really believe that old story about magnetic motors
that magically run themselves, do you?

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Yes I do.

anselm said:

You should read up on thermodynamics, especially the 1st law.

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The law of conservation is not broken..

There's nothing in the rule books that states, energy can't be cohered from an outside source. Solar panels do it all the time. COP=infinity

How do you think Moray was pulling 100's of watts from a wooden box? He was pulling it right out of the aether.

These devices don't produce energy from "nothing", they cohere it from the environment. Do you know how much energy is produced in 1 lightning strike? Does the law of conservation say you can't harness this energy?

I hope that someone does invent a new energy source. It would save mankind from all kinds of danger regarding conflicts over oil and ease the burdens of every day life for many people.

In the U.S., public transportation(metro stations) is not as prevalent as it is in many parts of Europe and Asia. So gasoline is a crucial factor in everyday life. Not that there is really less of a burden accessing public transportation for Europeans, just that the infrastructure for travel without owning a car does exist in many areas. I lived in the UK for a long time and enjoyed the accessibility of traveling without using a car. And when I traveled through France, Spain, Australia, Japan etc. it was easy to get to nearly any destination.

EnergyCoherence said:

..... Do you know how much energy is produced in 1 lightning strike? Does the law of conservation say you can't harness this energy?

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Yes, IF you can build a device that can almost instantly accumulate 50000000 Volt at 40000 A current ..... but, as far as i know, we're still far from these results .

And about that "magnetic motor", i want it in my claws p) for at least an hour, before say something about its validity (i have the very bad abitude to dismantle almost all that what i don't know, for try to learn how it work and why :eg


@ anselm: maybe that means "800% more efficent than the previous system", so it's not against the logic (i mean, as example, if a process have originally the efficence of 0.1%, and you made a new process that have 80% of efficence, you have made a process that is 800% more efficent than the first one)

The day before [Stanley Meyer] was going to sign the military contracts to build jeeps, he was poisoned.

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He wasn't poisoned, it was an aneurysm.

Also, if his patents are publicly available, why hasn't anyone else built an engine like that?

How do you think Moray was pulling 100's of watts from a wooden box? He was pulling it right out of the aether.

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I'd rather say he was pulling it out of his own behind.:crackup:
Otherwise, why don't you and I have a Moray generator running in our house today?

Yes I do.

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You DO know that all these magical magnet motors need a battery to run, and they never
produce any output at all other then just keep themselves spinning untill the
battery is flat, don't you?

Here, better put on a couple of these:
:tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil:

HIMNL9 said:

Hydrogen car motor invention was presented publically in a transmission on Italian TV (conducted from Enzo Tortora...

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TBH, the only Enzo I'm interested in is this Enzo...

EnergyCoherence said:

...The law of conservation is not broken...

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Now-now Gentlemen, you're both about to break the law of conversation with your little rocket-science-level flame war ...

anselm said:

He wasn't poisoned, it was an aneurysm.

Also, if his patents are publicly available, why hasn't anyone else built an engine like that?

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First off, have you ever tried building a device based on a patent? See how far you get.. Patents are not schematics.. They are cryptic vague pieces of paper for the purpose of preventing anyone else from building the device.. Suppression tactic #1. If you want your device to make it into the public sector, you open-source it, and stay as far away from the patent office as you possible can, that is, if you don't want the spooks at your doorstep.

Invention Secrecy Still Going Strong | Secrecy News

Secondly, Bob Boyce has achieved success like I said.
YouTube - Bob Boyce Interview by Chris Patton; 1 of 9

Daniel Dingle is another guy who has a toyota running off water as well..

anselm said:

I'd rather say he was pulling it out of his own behind.:crackup:
Otherwise, why don't you and I have a Moray generator running in our house today?

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Because I'm not Henry Moray, nor Tesla, nor Stubblefield, nor Steven Mark, etc..

Why don't we have these devices in our homes?

The same reason solar panels are 20% efficient..

The same reason you're still using a canon for an engine.

Think we can't do better than a canon?

anselm said:

You DO know that all these magical magnet motors need a battery to run, and they never
produce any output at all other then just keep themselves spinning untill the
battery is flat, don't you?

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Now who's pulling what..

Too bad this motor keeps going and going..
"Will run a small pump with no extra energy into the system"

Don't believe it? Don't care..It will still be there running whether you believe it or not.

Traveller said:

Now-now Gentlemen, you're both about to break the law of conversation with your little rocket-science-level flame war ...

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Alrighty then, I don't want to cause a meltdown.

I'd only be interested in an electric car if the following conditions are all met.

1-Must not be mini and fugly as hell. Have you seen the Nissan leaf? Looks like something out of those corny old movies about the future. What's with all the rounded stuff and weird bugeyed headlights? Driving one and being a male just screams "stuck up liberal, econut activist or a combination of the 2".
2-Must have 200 or more hp. 100ish hp just doesn't do it for me.
3-Must have a range of at least 250 Miles between charges, charge relatively quickly and not have the batteries degrade after a few hundred charges.
4-Must not cost an outrageous amount. $30k+ for some crappy little bubble car or $100K for a cool electric car like the Tesla. Not exactly in the average American's price range.
5-NO HYBRIDS. Pure electric only. Hybrids are massively overcomplicated, overcostly and IMO a dumb idea to begin with. They're like a half-assed econo car combined with a half-assed electric car. The result is a fugly pos like the prius which I wouldn't be caught dead driving.

Until those conditions are met I'll keep on driving my gas guzzling and carbon spewing V8.

Hydrogen cars actually have some potential assuming that we ever figure out an efficient way to get the hydrogen AND transfer it across the country. Anyone can set up some photovoltaic cells and use them to electrolyze water. Capturing and effectively distributing the highly explosive and flammable hydrogen is the tricky part.

@Razako
"Hydrogen cars", I've electrolyzed water back in 6th school grade. I did it with a plastic bottle (dunno the name in english ), some hydrochloric acid and 24v (two cars batteries). It take 25~30 hours to generate 2 liters of hydrogen.. When I lit (with a VERY long stick) it exploded in a way it went flying like a rocket, and the fireball went 2 meter (6~7 feet) long. The fire burns infrared as I heard, so it is pretty hot and invisible. Pretty dangerous to not see your car burning and enter it

j/k tho, it is VERY dangerous. Not very safe for a car.. IMHO..

Leodahsan said:

@Razako
"Hydrogen cars", I've electrolyzed water back in 6th school grade. I did it with a plastic bottle (dunno the name in english ), some hydrochloric acid and 24v (two cars batteries). It take 25~30 hours to generate 2 liters of hydrogen.. When I lit (with a VERY long stick) it exploded in a way it went flying like a rocket, and the fireball went 2 meter (6~7 feet) long. The fire burns infrared as I heard, so it is pretty hot and invisible. Pretty dangerous to not see your car burning and enter it

j/k tho, it is VERY dangerous. Not very safe for a car.. IMHO..

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lol I had a similar experience with electrolysis. Basically I had a little container full of salt water and 2 pieces of tin foil hooked up to a typical 12V 1A adapter. I shut the container to collect the hydrogen and left it bubbling for a few hours. Later when I went to take the lid off I accidentally bumped the 2 electrodes together in the concealed container. The result was a loud bang and it shot murky water all over the room. Hydrogen actually burns with a visible flame, but the problem is that it's generally more of a violent explosion rather than a flame.

@Razako
:crackup: My professor said salt water. But I knew acids were going to work better :evil:. The hydrogen exploded inside the whole experiment? LOL'ed at this It is a good thing to teach your sons, tho (ELECTROLYSIS.. not booming h2)

Leodahsan said:

@Razako
:crackup: My professor said salt water. But I knew acids were going to work better :evil:. The hydrogen exploded inside the whole experiment? LOL'ed at this It is a good thing to teach your sons, tho (ELECTROLYSIS.. not booming h2)

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Yeah it was pretty dumb lol. I did it back when I was like 14 after learning about the concept in school.

EnergyCoherence said:

This guy has been running on water since the 1970's. Maybe we should all do a group buy on the particle accelerator and make some tanks.

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Interesting video, I watched all 10 mins of it.

I wonder what kind of power output he gets with his car with Hydrogen.

Razako said:

lol I had a similar experience with electrolysis. Basically I had a little container full of salt water and 2 pieces of tin foil hooked up to a typical 12V 1A adapter. I shut the container to collect the hydrogen and left it bubbling for a few hours. Later when I went to take the lid off I accidentally bumped the 2 electrodes together in the concealed container. The result was a loud bang and it shot murky water all over the room. Hydrogen actually burns with a visible flame, but the problem is that it's generally more of a violent explosion rather than a flame.

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I think Hydrogen flames emit UV also.

@Razako
We're all learning, aren't we? It is pretty dumb to not watch out for ESD and burn out a $40 diode, but I did it

@mfo
I've heard that the power used to generate hydrogen is higher than the power generated by hydrogen. With 9v cells you can generate it so, I don't expect a big power... I think it is why hydrogen cars aren't really used 'till now... Just my 0.02 cents