268mW 6X Key Chain Blu-ray! (With FlexDrive!) - Awesome!

Spyderz20x6 · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

IgorT said:
Sure, if it has 170mAh!

I'm looking at the Conrad catalog for more Li-Ion shape and sizes...

EDIT: No luck with Li-Ions, but i did find 12mm dia / 6mm height Ni-MHs! Three of these would fit, and work, but the capacity is 40mAh.. We're better off with 10180's...

I also found a 3V Primary Lithium, 11.6mm dia / 10.8mm length, from Varta.. Capacity says 170mAh!
I think this is the same you found. CR 1/3N... If only it was a bit longer and more capacity.. In Conrad it costs 5.3€!

Problem with Lithium Primaries is, the FlexDrive won't really use them up fully, since it'll stop at 2.4V. It's possible only half of this capacity would be utilised (since primaries should go down to 2V), maybe a bit more than half, but then you're pretty much back at where you were with the 10180...

I will be happy if i can get those. Li-Ions have the highest energy density, and are in the perfect voltage range for boost drivers.
Unless the tailcap can be drilled out (without reducing the integrity of the threads) to make room for a longer Li-Ion, i think 10180's are the way to go for a project like this.

It's amazing, that it's possible at all! The 10180 will actually power a 200mW red or a 6x, even if it's only for a short time. But that's why they are rechargeable. 200mW in this size is beyond anything i ever imagined..

[highlight]The only thing better would be a 12180 Li-Ion - it would have twice the capacity![/highlight] Oh well, i can dream..

Maybe we can do a GB...
I'm sure 100 people would want these batteries! Most people would even take 2!

IgorT · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

SpydrexZ: It takes 2-3 THOUSAND MINIMUM to have them custom made! I asked, when i was first attempting this build..
(It's possible that he said 20 thousand! Not sure. But he doesn't do a custom battery for 100 orders).

Spyderz20x6 · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

IgorT said:
SpydrexZ: It takes 2-3 THOUSAND MINIMUM to have them custom made! I asked, when i was first attempting this build..

Oh...

Wait... So AW will be making these 10180 batteries, right :-/

jayrob · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Igor, thanks for that excellent explanation on the boost/buck circuit!

That should be stickied. It makes perfect sense...

Please do me a favor and calculate approximate battery life using the 90mAh 10180's for my two Key Chain builds. One is a PHR at 117mA's. And the other is a 1239JL-54 red at 180mA's.

Jay

IgorT · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Yeah, AW has a Li-Ion factory.. They continuously make the more usual shapes and sizes, which are constantly available.

But these strange tiny sizes are actually simply leftovers of someone's custom request!
And often, once they are gone, they are gone for good..

Luckily, he still has the moulds and whatnot for them, and obviously, there is enough interest. At least partially due to Jay...

IgorT · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

jayrob said:
Igor, thanks for that excellent explanation on the boost/buck circuit!

That should be stickied. It makes perfect sense...

Please do me a favor and calculate approximate battery life using the 90mAh 10180's for my two Key Chain builds. One is a PHR at 117mA's. And the other is a 1239JL-54 red at 180mA's.
Jay

I can do an approximate calculation. Problem is, the current draw is not constant - it changes with the voltage. But if i take the average voltage, i can calculate the average current... That would simplify it a lot.

But it will contain a bit of guesstimatig. I would need to know the exact Vfs for there to be only one unknown value - the actual capacity of the battery (altho i know for a fact, that AW doesn't exaggerate like DX brands). I will take average values for PHR Vf and 16 Vf.

I will have to do it a bit later tho....

jayrob · Jan 12, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Update: Scratch the idea of using the CR1 batteries. It works, but not with full power. I got 75mW's with the red build. 128mW's using a 10180...
Jay

jayrob · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Igor, good idea about drilling out the tail cap a little. I just ordered some 10280's for twice the capacity!

I did some more measuring and can see that the extra 10mm's in length will fit with the tail cap drilled out... Sweet!

Jay

danq · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

:-/ I'm confused - what host does the 10280 fit (when tailcap drilled)??
and where did you get 10280's?

I'm trying to follow this discussion, with notification being sporadic at best (and my attention spaan not much better)

jayrob · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Dan, check the very first post in this thread!

Jay

danq · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

jayrob said:
Dan, check the very first post in this thread!
Jay

Hey! that's not fair, putting the information up front like that - people aren't going to have to read all 7 pages to find the best way to go!

thanks Jay!

but I do wish we'd get notification when someone edits a post like that... heck, I'd be happy if notification worked reliably at any level!

DanQ

IgorT · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

jayrob said:
Igor, good idea about drilling out the tail cap a little. I just ordered some 10280's for twice the capacity!

I did some more measuring and can see that the extra 10mm's in length will fit with the tail cap drilled out... Sweet!
Jay

Jay, you misunderstood the idea, and applied it to your host..

I was talking about another one.

I had absolutelly no clue it was possible on yours!

Good thing you misunderstood me! ;D

Now, the important question is... Did you misunderstand me in time, or is it too late?
Also, could you perhaps misunderstand me on my host too? :

P.S. The bigger the batteries we get in here, the better! Cos 3.3C discharge rate is a bit much, especially for tiny batteries. A larger battery will suffer less... With 180mA, the discharge rate will be 1.7C (on full, more as voltage drops).

P.P.S. Also, now we don't have to order the out of stock 10180's anymoree..

jayrob · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Sorry Igor, I had already sent your key chain host off before I even had considered trying to drill out the tail caps of my two...

But send me the cap and I will drill it out for you! If you think your other hosts have room, I will take a look at them as well if you want. It's also a matter of how it fits into my 3-jaw chuck. Also, for something this small needing to be drilled out like the picture shows, I must put it in the chuck metal to metal. Otherwise heat will melt any kind of tape and the piece would 'slide'.

This just means some very small, pretty much not noticeable marks on the tail cap. When I say small, I mean very small. Like a smudge. No big deal...

Jay

IgorT · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Yeah, i understand the problems with this.... But i was just looking at mine, and they are really small.
There is SOME room, but it's not much. I might get a 10220 in there, but not the 10280...

I guess i'll make PHRs out of them, and use your host for the 6x..

EDIT: I see now.. While your tailcap offers more room, it doesn't offer much grip for machining. There is a flat area on mine that might offer better grip. But it doesn't offer nearly as much room, if drilled out. The tailcap is very short!

It might provide enough room for my 10220's tho. IF only the structural integrity of the threads doesn't get reduced too much.
I will need to do some careful measurements, to see if it is possible at all.

I would need some info for my measurements, to see if the modification is even possible on my host:
- What is the OD of your tailcap (around the threads), and the approx pitch?
- What ID did you drill them out to? I measured my 10220's at up to 10.3mm

Anyway, thanks again for sending me one of your tiny hosts, Jay! I will try to find a way to use the pushbutton for constant-ON, like it works in the flashlight otherwise. I think it should be possible. And it would make it so much better! If i find a way, i'll post it here.

IgorT · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

Ok, the OD of my tailcap at the threads (without the threads themselves) is 11.80mm.. The hole needs to be 10.30-10-40mm. That leaves 0.7mm wall thickness under the threads (reminds me of the other modification you did for me)...

Do you think it's possible? I think it just might be!

There is no way i could get a 10280 in there, but at least i could use my 10220's....

jayrob · Jan 13, 2009

Re: Key Chain Blu-ray... With FlexDrive!

I think it would most likely be fine Igor.

Here are my measurements...
The hole drilled is 10.4mm I.D. and 10.3mm deep.

The O.D. of the threads is 12.8mm
The I.D. of the host threads is 12.5mm

Hey Igor, I ordered 4 - 10220's before I realized that 10280's could fit. They have been shipped... Now I won't need them. (hint hint)
Jay

268mW 6X Key Chain Blu-ray! (With FlexDrive!) - Awesome!

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