Why is no one talking about this? US pushing Russia/middle east towards war

[trencheel303]

Every time I try to have a reasoned conversation with most people within my physical reach, particularly with regard to Russia, I get sighs and the raising of hands. But people need to research the facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo

From a once left-leaning liberal ish/ centre left person all I will say is this - I feel sorry for the US if you get Hillary Clinton. That's all I'll say. The way your country (or moreover the Hillary regime) is currently behaving towards in particular Russia, is appalling.

I figure we can have reasoned discussion here as there seem to be a fairly high number of active members who are right leaning.

 

[Jhop]

There s a thread about this. but yeah I am terrified of what will happen if Hillary wins. My money is on Trump but this country is so corrupt and twisted I think she will somehow cheat the elections to go in her favor even if Trump gets more votes

 

[NightExplorer96]

There s a thread about this. but yeah I am terrified of what will happen if Hillary wins. My money is on Trump but this country is so corrupt and twisted I think she will somehow cheat the elections to go in her favor even if Trump gets more votes

I unfortunately wouldn't be surprised, and yes, the USA has become such a corrupt driven by the money hungry elite that it's citizens are struggling to survive. As soon as we get rid of these idiots running the country we can go back to fighting for the people!

-Alex

 

[trencheel303]

Aye, good luck with that.

 

[diachi]

Aye, good luck with that.

Us Scots have been trying for what, only a few hundred years?

Agreed though, the US needs good ties with Russia. Won't happen under a Clinton administration though. If anything it'll get worse.

 

[trencheel303]

Indeed. I was for Scottish Independence, but I'm for being out of the EU more. That is one hell of a shitshow. An economic basketcase at an undemocratic high. Name the leader/s of the EU - I don't know anyone who can. Did we vote for them? No...

 

[Razako]

What are people really afraid of? A war between the US and Russia is never gonna happen because there would be no winner in such a conflict. It would lead to the ruin of both nations. I put it well below pandemic plagues and asteroid impacts on the list of things I worry about.

 

[paul1598419]

When you get your information in a speech by Putin, you don't get the entire truth of the matter. Putin is a dictator and has his cronies, all corrupt, keeping themselves in a position of power. I feel badly for the Russian people who have to put up with a Putin regime, many have been locked up for opposing him.

 

[RedCowboy]

What are people really afraid of? A war between the US and Russia is never gonna happen because there would be no winner in such a conflict. It would lead to the ruin of both nations. I put it well below pandemic plagues and asteroid impacts on the list of things I worry about.

God I am cross posting like crazy here, but our proxies are being up armored and we will find our sons and daughters on the pointy end of our own spears.

If one side gets proficient at knocking out the others superweapons then the game changes, just like Regan used "starwars" to bankrupt Russia during the cold war. Only when it happens the other way, live and let live may not be the path taken afterwards.

>>>>> http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/what-s-going-around-world-96356-4.html#post1444596

 

[paul1598419]

God I am cross posting like crazy here, but our proxies are being up armored and we will find our sons and daughters on the pointy end of our own spears.

If one side gets proficient at knocking out the others superweapons then the game changes, just like Regan used "starwars" to bankrupt Russia during the cold war. Only when it happens the other way, live and let live may not be the path taken afterwards.

I am so sick and tired of Republicans trying to give Reagan's nonsensical Strategic Defense Initiative that bankrupted this country credit for the dissolution of the Soviet Union. If any one person deserves credit for it's fall, it would be Gorbachev, who did not stop the fall of the Berlin wall and also the military, for not taking over like the Chinese did when faced with the same situation in Tiananmen Square. It is like the rooster taking credit for the dawn.

 

[RedCowboy]

I don't know about all that, but it was States rights and not slavery that the Civil War was fought over, slavery is a history re-write, the Southern cotton growers were buying up land to the West and gaining political seats, and did not like being forced to pay 100% tax and being forced to buy northern machinery rather than the better made English machines.

Slavery was a small issue, not the main issue.

Yes it needed to be fixed and hooray for the Emancipation Proclamation, but slavery was not the main reason for the Civil War.

 

[Benm]

When you get your information in a speech by Putin, you don't get the entire truth of the matter. Putin is a dictator and has his cronies, all corrupt, keeping themselves in a position of power. I feel badly for the Russian people who have to put up with a Putin regime, many have been locked up for opposing him.

One issue with that is that Putin is actually quite popular in Russia.

I've seen some footage about election fraud, but that probably isn't even required to give him a majority vote, though it gives a larger majority than realistic.

The worst thing that could happen is another cold war. I don't think this is very likely as russia benefits from trade relations with european nato countries and the current import bans and such are mostly for show.

Meanwhile the russian sphere of influence has extended into the middle east considerably, while the american/nato influence in eastern europe has increased as well. If it came to a second cold war the lines on the map would be very different, but the premise of mutually assured destruction would still be there.

The main danger i see in such a situation is that russia would have to position nuclear weapons in islamic countries, which will pose a huge risk when this cold war ends - so let's avoid it!

 

[paul1598419]

I don't know about all that, but it was States rights and not slavery that the Civil War was fought over, slavery is a history re-write, the Southern cotton growers were buying up land to the West and gaining political seats, and did not like being forced to pay 100% tax and being forced to buy northern machinery rather than the better made English machines.

Slavery was a small issue, not the main issue.

Yes it needed to be fixed and hooray for the Emancipation Proclamation, but slavery was not the main reason for the Civil War.

This is a total rewrite of history. The states that were slave-holding, were very much against Lincoln's candidacy as he was very much antislavery. In the 1860 election, not so much for moral reasons, but for economic ones, as Lincoln saw slavery as putting working whites out of work because slavery was free labor. As soon as he was elected, southern states started to secede from the union. They actually thought that the civil war was going to be a short easy victory for the south. I spent a whole semester studying this war in college and it might have not been a slave issue for poor white southerners, but it was a slave issue to the people in power, and they were the ones that counted. "States Rights" was a mantra of the slave-holding states as they wanted to keep the federal government out of their business. It continued to be that way after reconstruction and on to this day, where blacks are disenfranchised in counties where they even hold a majority. You need only ask a black person in the south if this is not the case. They won't speak freely about it, though, as they have found that there are retributions for doing so.

 

[Trevor]

I don't know about all that, but it was States rights and not slavery that the Civil War was fought over, slavery is a history re-write, the Southern cotton growers were buying up land to the West and gaining political seats, and did not like being forced to pay 100% tax and being forced to buy northern machinery rather than the better made English machines.

You're absolutely wrong. What shall I use as proof? The Constitution of the Confederate States of America.

From section 9:

(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

In the Confederacy, states were not allowed to pass any laws prohibiting slavery.

To rephrase...

North: The Federal Government prohibited states from having slavery.
South: The Federal Government prohibited states from NOT having slavery. Constitutionally.

So which side had more states' rights regarding slavery? :thinking:

It wasn't about states' rights at all. It was about slavery.

The fact that the Confederate constitution specifically mentions slaves is enough to pretty conclusively disprove the whitewashed "states' rights" version of the civil war.

Funny they don't teach the Confederate constitution in Georgia... because the state flag is basically the Confederate flag. :crackup:

Trevor

 

[paul1598419]

This is the the rewrite to the civil war that was only started long after the war was over and dispelled all the way back to 1920. It was all about slavery and nothing else. There's even a nice write up about the civil war deniers in Wikipedia. People in the south have been trying to rewrite this history since the turn of the 19th century. Not a single historian has bought it.

 

[trencheel303]

When you get your information in a speech by Putin, you don't get the entire truth of the matter. Putin is a dictator and has his cronies, all corrupt, keeping themselves in a position of power. I feel badly for the Russian people who have to put up with a Putin regime, many have been locked up for opposing him.

Not all of my information is from his speeches. However, getting information from his speeches, from the horse's mouth direct, is far more reliable than doing what the majority of the public do and listening to news outlets who spin the news into what the general public need to hear to support western war and aggression. I have a feeling you haven't actually watched the clip I posted.

As for Russian people putting up with his regime, I think if you do your research you'll find that he's overwhelmingly backed over there. As for people being put away for opposing him, please show me. Apart from pussy riot, who acted appallingly in places of worship, I know of no such cases that warrant any merit.