'Underages' Laser Lovers.

[Brett]

You know...most of the kids on this forum can't even seem to master the rules of proper grammar and spelling...much less are they able to form coherent thoughts and express them using any sort of decent syntactic elegance.

How can you expect kiddies like this to be able to grasp some of the scientific principles that are required to understand the operation and safe use of a high powered laser?

...

It's strange that people recoil with shock when presented with a reasoned argument from a guy like Wannaburn. These types of posts should be par for the course on here. I like to see someone on the internet that can actually write something down that doesn't resemble the careless scrawlings of an intoxicated caveman.

-Brett

 

[rocketparrotlet]

Both my parents have full knowledge of my laser and its capabilities. I do not have the urge to run out in the street and shine it around, or harm anyone in any way with it. My parents know how I use it, although they are not always there when I do. They know that I am responsible, and so they trust me to use it safely. I have never burned a match without goggles, or allowed anyone else to view it without goggles.

Do I not understand the dangers behind it simply because of my age? When I turn 18, will I suddenly become mature and realize fully the dangers and consequences of using my laser incorrectly?

I think it's a question of individual maturity. As age increases, so does maturity and common sense. However, we do not all mature at the same level, and age is only a rough approximation of maturity.

-Mark

 

[cexshun]

Sounds good. So away with all of the laws. Parents can now say when children can drink. It's now up to parents to say when their kids can drive cars. And parents everywhere get to decide when it's OK for their kids to smoke. Because after all, it's the parents that know when their children are mature enough to handle these things.

That what you are trying to say?

 

[el-taco]

To be honest, I think it's completely unfair to say all kids are the same maturity level. I'm 14, and apparently I have been grouped into the "have the impulse to go blind an old grandmother" if I don't have my parent around. No offense, but I find that pretty rediculous. I am more cautious, more safety-wise, and more aware than most adults I know.

I think that yes, most kids would have the impulse to shine it where it shouldnt be shown, and yes, most kids would have very little knowledge on how dangerous lasers really are, but there are some who are as cautious/smart as the average adult, then there are some who are smarter than the average adult.

To class everyone as stupid, in my opinion, is completely unfair.

 

[Brett]

I agree that there are some younger folks that are very intelligent and capable of using a laser for serious study and responsible fun. However, like someone said earlier in the thread, they are the exceedingly rare exceptions, and the generalization made by Wannaburn, myself, and others still holds considerable value.

I'm 34, but if I was at such a young age now (like 12...etc) I think would try be discreet about recommending the use of such lasers "willy nilly" to anyone who happened to fancy them. While its true that there may be a distinct minority of young people who take lasers and laser safety seriously...that doesn't justify encouraging the creation of a high powered laser toy market.

When I was that age, I was into Chemistry...especially pyrotecnical applications. It was naturally difficult for me to get my hands on the chemicals I needed. Of course, I used my brain for more than just throwing footballs, so I was able to scheme ways to get the reagents I needed. I was discreet, and I didn't go around sharing dangerous things with other kids or bragging. For me it was enough that I was empowering myself with knowledge, information, and having fun doing it.

What I am saying is that the aforementioned "rare but responsible" 11 or 12 year old kid could get his hands on lasers if he wanted to even if they were illegal or hard to get. If he was smart enough he'd find a way, and he would be safe and discreet. We'd never hear about him hurting someone, or getting in trouble since he'd be as safe as someone my age, right?

-Brett

 

[cexshun]

To be honest, I think it's completely unfair to say all kids are the same maturity level. I'm 14, and apparently I have been grouped into the "have the impulse to go blind an old grandmother" if I don't have my parent around. No offense, but I find that pretty rediculous. I am more cautious, more safety-wise, and more aware than most adults I know.

I think that yes, most kids would have the impulse to shine it where it shouldnt be shown, and yes, most kids would have very little knowledge on how dangerous lasers really are, but there are some who are as cautious/smart as the average adult, then there are some who are smarter than the average adult.

To class everyone as stupid, in my opinion, is completely unfair.

So what are you proposing? Should retailers give "maturity level" tests to all potential buyers who cannot provide valid ID? To me, that sounds pretty ridiculous. Until you can come up with a plausible alternative method then age, we will remain with the status quo.  You yourself state that most kids were be very dangerous with lasers, yet age is not a valid determining factor. So, what do you propose?

Look, this goes far beyond basic safety principles. I've seen and committed many stupid things because I didn't consider something, or just plain didn't know. I know a guy whose kid burned down his garage. He was helping put up Christmas lights and left the extension cable coiled together. This built up heat and started a fire. The kid wasn't dumb or wreckless. He just didn't possess the life lessons that adults have,

When using something potentially dangerous, there's a lot more to consider then simply "wear goggle, point away from people". This is where life experiences come into play. And without these life experiences, then no amount of protesting will grant you the "level of maturity" you seem so desperate to make us believe you possess.

 

[JLSE]

Sounds good. So away with all of the laws. Parents can now say when children can drink. It's now up to parents to say when their kids can drive cars. And parents everywhere get to decide when it's OK for their kids to smoke. Because after all, it's the parents that know when their children are mature enough to handle these things.

That what you are trying to say?

Well thats a reasonable proposition... : I was sitting on my grandfather lap steering the car into the driveway when I was 4. Ive loved cars for a very long time. I took the responsibility to by one with $$ I earned, and got my lic. following the rules.

Twisting my words will not strengthen your argument. The meaning was that of, with other peoples SAFTEY in mind, no kid should be sold any laser over 1mW, and have the ability to run around with it.


@rocketparrotlet

Ive read many of your posts, and would agree that you are mature, not sure of your age, but none the less. Im sure your parents trust you for a very good reason. Im 100% that you would not, lol, dance in the snow with your laser near cars.. nor an airport..

The problem is, for every one of you, there are many that are not. There are many who buy a 100mW green laser for their kid to shut them up. Meanwhile all the kid knows of the laser are videos on youtube..

Again, when I speak of dangers, im not completely reffering to the user, but the poor ba$tard on the recieving end of a youtube enthusiest.

Only time will tell what the statistics will be in the future. But in my opinion, the less strict the rules for the younger crowd, the more disasterous the potential.

 

[cexshun]

[quote author=cexshun link=1229552876/20#34 date=1230077409]Sounds good. So away with all of the laws. Parents can now say when children can drink. It's now up to parents to say when their kids can drive cars. And parents everywhere get to decide when it's OK for their kids to smoke. Because after all, it's the parents that know when their children are mature enough to handle these things.

That what you are trying to say?

Well thats a reasonable proposition... :  I was sitting on my grandfather lap steering the car into the driveway when I was 4. Ive loved cars for a very long time. I took the responsibility to by one with $$ I earned, and got my lic. following the rules.

Twisting my words will not strengthen your argument. The meaning was that of, with other peoples SAFTEY in mind, no kid should be sold any laser over 1mW, and have the ability to run around with it.


@rocketparrotlet

Ive read many of your posts, and would agree that you are mature, not sure of your age, but none the less. Im sure your parents trust you for a very good reason. Im 100% that you would not, lol, dance in the snow with your laser near cars.. nor an airport..

The problem is, for every one of you, there are many that are not. There are many who buy a 100mW green laser for their kid to shut them up. Meanwhile all the kid knows of the laser are videos on youtube..

Again, when I speak of dangers, im not completely reffering to the user, but the poor ba$tard on the recieving end of a youtube enthusiest.

Only time will tell what the statistics will be in the future. But in my opinion, the less strict the rules for the younger crowd, the more disasterous the potential.
[/quote]

Hey man, umm, I'm on your side. That first paragraph was sarcasm directed at the young-lings here that claim they are more mature then the other 99% of the age bracket. I guess I should have quoted parrot in my response.

My comment about subscribing to your newsletter was meant to be a compliment to your arguments and voicing my support for your opinion. In fact, I was trying to +1 you, but I cannot due to post count.

 

[JLSE]

[quote author=wannaburn link=1229552876/20#38 date=1230078610][quote author=cexshun link=1229552876/20#34 date=1230077409]Sounds good. So away with all of the laws. Parents can now say when children can drink. It's now up to parents to say when their kids can drive cars. And parents everywhere get to decide when it's OK for their kids to smoke. Because after all, it's the parents that know when their children are mature enough to handle these things.

That what you are trying to say?

Well thats a reasonable proposition... :  I was sitting on my grandfather lap steering the car into the driveway when I was 4. Ive loved cars for a very long time. I took the responsibility to by one with $$ I earned, and got my lic. following the rules.

Twisting my words will not strengthen your argument. The meaning was that of, with other peoples SAFTEY in mind, no kid should be sold any laser over 1mW, and have the ability to run around with it.


@rocketparrotlet

Ive read many of your posts, and would agree that you are mature, not sure of your age, but none the less. Im sure your parents trust you for a very good reason. Im 100% that you would not, lol, dance in the snow with your laser near cars.. nor an airport..

The problem is, for every one of you, there are many that are not. There are many who buy a 100mW green laser for their kid to shut them up. Meanwhile all the kid knows of the laser are videos on youtube..

Again, when I speak of dangers, im not completely reffering to the user, but the poor ba$tard on the recieving end of a youtube enthusiest.

Only time will tell what the statistics will be in the future. But in my opinion, the less strict the rules for the younger crowd, the more disasterous the potential.
[/quote]

Hey man, umm, I'm on your side. That first paragraph was sarcasm directed at the young-lings here that claim they are more mature then the other 99% of the age bracket. I guess I should have quoted parrot in my response.

My comment about subscribing to your newsletter was meant to be a compliment to your arguments and voicing my support for your opinion. In fact, I was trying to +1 you, but I cannot due to post count.[/quote]


LOL, rule number one > [sarcasm] your comment here [/sarcasm]

 

[rocketparrotlet]

LOL, rule number one > [sarcasm] your comment here [/sarcasm]

Or, you could be lazy like me and give a couple of automatic disclaimers...

-----

By the way, I'm not encouraging immature behavior or saying that pre-built lasers should be so accessible.  I just don't like the level of generalization and blanket statements being made about ALL people in a certain age group.

@Brett Miller: You mentioned that the smart people my age would be able to get their hands on whatever they needed for their projects/experiments.  You're right...I built my laser myself, with only the help of my dad and forum members.  I managed to obtain all the parts I needed.  Chemistry used to be my main hobby as well, and that's where I learned to scrounge and innovate.  Now, I DIY lasers. I found a way, and I am safe and discreet. You will never hear about me hurting someone or getting in trouble because I am always safe with my laser.

-Mark

 

[JLSE]

Thats just it, im not trying to generalize, I didnt even pay attention to this thread prior to watching Artix youtube video. My point was more towards why parents should be involved, and that age limits are put in place for a reason.

I have a 10 year old nephew, my wifes sisters kid. When he comes over for the weekend, he can look but he cant touch! Everything is locked up and out of site.

I made a cool 405nm 9 LED flashlight for him, as his interest is certainly there. What did he do when he got home? Shine it at his moms face, dads face... No matter how many times you explain, most 10 year olds will not grasp. It was the first thing I told him, it was a test of sorts.

Then we bought him a NERF gun with the "laser sight" just a bright LED that makes a spot. Whats the first thing he does with it? I walk through the door to their house on a sunday visit, bang right in the eyes. Little S***

So you will have to pardon the generlization in that sense, as kids will be kids, but there is no green 1mW in his stocking this year... :-/

 

[Andrewajt62]

Great, another argument, right around Christmas too  .

Personally, I think that you may be muchure depending on your age, but there is many exceptions. I am turning 13 soon, and I am responsible. I have a BB gun that I use every week. It's very powerful but I am careful with it. I wear glasses, give glasses to someone if they are near, keep it on safe mode when it's not in use, and only shoot at a target. Fot my upcoming birthday, I am getting a Nova x75 WITH the key accessory, and proper safety glasses. I know not to use it without safety glasses (except veiwing the beam during star pointing) and keep the key in my safe, away from anyone who might try to turn on laser. I know to not to use it around some one (unless they happen to have a pair of 532nm safety glaases on them ) I agree with both sides of this argument. Most kids my age would shine it in their eyes out of curiousity and view it as a toy. There is however, some that know that safety should always come first.

 

[el-taco]

Im not disregarding what you say. Im just saying I feel that classing everyone in that category is pretty unfair. There is no way around that that I can think of.

I agree with you.