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Thor M II safe viewing distance without goggles?

lordsmurf

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I want some community feedback on this:

I plan to do some nifty photo/video work outdoors, using a laser.

After seeing what's available, after some research over weeks, I decided on the Thor M II, which is supposedly a Class 4 laser. The laser needed to be blue, and I needed to be able to focus it, and there were not many options. My only past experience with lasers had been the cheap pet/dollar store things, which turned into a faint red blob at the distance I need. Maybe someday I'll take interest in burning stuff, but I'm not a pyro like Beavis. I got the aluminum kit with the batteries, charger, and OD5 glasses, off eBay from a seller in China. Thor M II is printed on the laser, seems legit.

The kit glasses are dark, but I took the advice of others, and bought an Eagle Pair 190-540&800-2000nm OD4+ pair of goggles. These came from eBay, from China, but seem legit. It appears Eagle Pair are made in China. These are medium/dark orange when viewing, glasses brown in appearance.

In recent quick tests
- outside, either daylight or sunlight
- about 75 feet away from the target
- and wearing the OD4+ Eagle Pair goggles
I see nothing. Moving the laser closer to me on the ground, I can only barely see the laser dot for about 20 feet with the Eagle Pair goggles. With the OD5 kit goggles, I see nothing outdoors, everything is bright red (and the bright red hurts my eyes).

To see the blue dot, I would
- wear sunglasses as a base (which I know do near-nothing to protect from strikes, but perhaps they will for any glare both from sun and laser beam/light?)
- OD4+ Eagle Pair on top of the sunglasses, slightly down on my nose, covering all of my eyes except for a tiny slit at the top where I'd peek through the sunglasses instead
- and from about 75 feet away, I saw the dot/blob ("dot" was a 1-foot blob before focusing it smaller to a few inches)
- on the last couple of tests, I squinted just to be ridiculously semi-careful, try to just barely see the blue dot on the light-colored brick wall

Am I safe to use the laser in the daylight, without googles, or at least mostly covering my eyes, from 75 feet away?
Is there any danger?

I've read things that state, for Class 4 lasers (like the Thor M II), that you must always wear goggles at all times. But then you can't see anything. So ... what's the point of the laser?

Is the blue beam itself being scattered by the sun, and thus no danger?
Or is this invisible beam of light somehow still damaging my eyes, and goggles are therefore a must?

I have photophobia, so merely being exposed to bright sunlight gives me some eye strain, and I must rest my eyes (sometimes for hours) before I can read and focus well indoors. Also a few floaters. When briefly testing the laser, I didn't feel the need to blink, watery eyes, etc. For me, nothing unusual happened. So just after laser use, it may be difficult for me tell the difference between normal issues, and anything being caused by the laser.

After the last quick 30-second (or less) laser test, in sunny outdoors, I came in the house, and was trying to check my vision, looking at the bright-white blank fullscreen Notepad on the computer. I think I see a floater that I'd never noticed before, but of course that doesn't mean anything other than I hadn't noticed it before. Having the usual issue of trying to read something small right now, usual eye strain moving from outdoor to indoor lights. Want to close my eyes for a while, sit in the dark, as usual.

At very most, sometimes the laser could strike a chain link metal fence that is entirely rusty brown, being careful not to have the beam hit the metal bar at the top of the fence. Nothing else should be metal, therefore not super reflective surface. Some of the objects where I'll be "painting the canvas" with laser light on video/photo may be white or offwhite.

My eyes are important. I want to verify it's safe to proceed.
 



GSS

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Your fine outside without the safety glasses viewing a beam, daytime or nighttime.. Yes beware though of reflective surfaces.
You won't or should not see a beam with safety glasses, just a defused spot on what ever it's aimed at.
 

lordsmurf

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Is viewing the dot from 75 feet away safe as well?
Or does the "beam" include everything from the moment it leaves the laser to the point where it ends (aka, create a dot/blob of light on a surface?)

Even through the sans-goggles viewing slit I'd been allowing myself, I don't see a beam in the daytime. It was my understanding that the beam is always invisible in daylight. I just wasn't sure if it was still harmful, even being invisible. (I've not yet taken it out at night, as I don't plan to photo/video anything at night.)

I've done nifty photo/video tricks with flashlights in years past, and even cheap weak red lasers, but this is my first foray into "real" lasers. I just want to make sure I cover all my bases on safety.

Thanks for taking time to reply.
 

Snecho

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I see a lot of issues with the OP, but to answer your question, you can stare at the dot of a multiwatt blue laser unprotected, as close as 8 feet away without damage. Beware of reflections.

I have a Thor M2 as well and can stare at it all day.

Using deductive reasoning, you can go from there. :)

Hope that helps.
 

GSS

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I see a lot of issues with the OP, but to answer your question, you can stare at the dot of a multiwatt blue laser unprotected, as close as 8 feet away without damage. Beware of reflections.

I have a Thor M2 as well and can stare at it all day.

Using deductive reasoning, you can go from there. :)

Hope that helps.
Snecho, it's obvious that you don't have a Thor M2, as even a few members asked for a pic or two going on 2 months..
Hear me out:unsure: your not a bad kid and just a thought,,
I don't know if it's a money issue? age issue? or what not. If you can prove your at least of decent age, and have those Eagle safety glasses you claimed, I will chip in nicely towards a 1.6W 445 Thor M2 for you as they aren't that much money and maby one other member I can think of will also chip in.
Hoping the things I asked and one thing that will help the LPF..
Alot of new members have been posting about the proper use of safety glasses and it's getting very tiring answering over and over.
I don't know if you can make a "Sticky" to answer these question's or put it on your avatar or just be the answer guy to these glasses questions..
 
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paul1598419

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You know I have answered this question for this member in other places too. I really don't see why it keeps coming up.
 
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RedCowboy

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OP said he has photophobia and sunlight causes him blurry vision for hours after.............then he ask about why we wear safety glasses in daylight as they hide the beam/spot so what's the point..............Seriously ? Why is op attempting to view a laser spot that's brighter than daylight when daylight is a problem for him ?

I enjoy laser beams at night and I enjoy pointing long range in daylight but I never try to look at the spot up close day or night without the correct laser safety glasses.

--------

OP also asked > Am I safe to use the laser in the daylight, without googles, or at least mostly covering my eyes, from 75 feet away?
Is there any danger?

You are always in danger of specular reflections but diffuse reflections at 75 feet will not be a problem however with photophobia anything in the realm of a bright glare could be an issue for the OP

--------

OP said > I think I see a floater that I'd never noticed before

GO SEE YOUR EYE DOCTOR IF YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS WHAT SO EVER, NO MEDICAL HELP IS AVAILABLE HERE.
 
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lordsmurf

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I see a lot of issues with the OP
What do you mean? Your comment is confusing. :unsure:

You know I have answered this question for this member in other places too. I really don't see why it keeps coming up.
The first post in this thread was my first post on this forum.
And I've never asked these questions anywhere else online (or even offline, for that matter). :unsure:

OP said he has photophobia and sunlight causes him blurry vision for hours after.............then he ask about why we wear safety glasses in daylight as they hide the beam/spot so what's the point..............Seriously ? Why is op attempting to view a laser spot that's brighter than daylight when daylight is a problem for him ?
- I never asked "why" one wears safety glasses, merely if needed for a 75 foot distance. (Although I did opine the point of lasers if you must wear goggles than renders the laser invisible.)
- Is the laser spot really brighter than daylight?
- In fact, is the laser spot (at 75ft) brighter than the headlights of oncoming cars when driving on a 2-lane road at night?
- Is it any worse than glancing at a 75-watt bulb in my lamp (from 10ft), compared to the laser at that 75ft distance?

I'm asking these questions because I do not know the answer, and cannot seem to find an answer.

I enjoy laser beams at night and I enjoy pointing long range in daylight but I never try to look at the spot up close day or night without the correct laser safety glasses.
How far is "up close"?
Is 75 feet considered "close"?

You are always in danger of specular reflections
specular reflection = mirror-like reflection of light.
Yes, this is very much understood. (y)

diffuse reflections at 75 feet will not be a problem
At least 2 members have now stated this. Thanks for the confirmation. (y)

however with photophobia anything in the realm of a bright glare could be an issue for the OP
For me, dark sunglasses are always required when outdoors. Life must go on, even with health/disabling conditions. But I know sunglasses are not laser eye protection. So if 75 feet "without safety goggles" is acceptable, then I'm thinking any normal glare-protecting dark sunglasses will suffice.
Would you concur?
Also, what about 50 feet?

OP said > I think I see a floater that I'd never noticed before
GO SEE YOUR EYE DOCTOR IF YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS WHAT SO EVER, NO MEDICAL HELP IS AVAILABLE HERE.
Obviously an ophthalmologists visit should be scheduled, and my regular appt is due soon anyway. However the discovery of a floater may have nothing to do with brief testing of a laser. My question here was whether it (A) could be related, and (B) is likely or unlikely related. I'm sure it "could", but how likely is it?
 

RedCowboy

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No one here is able to give you any medical advise, if you have a medical concern go see a doctor.

As far as looking at the spot/dot of a laser I typically keep 8 feet away or more from an opaque surface that will not produces a specular reflection and if glancing the spot produces any noticeable afterimage then I consider that too much even though the sun reflected from car windows and bumpers will produce an afterimage I don't like for glancing a laser spot to do that, also everyone is different so it's best to stay way way on the safe side.

There are no doubt mathematical formulas such as NOHD that you may want to read about, try the search bar, other than that I can only say for certain that 5mw laser spots are safe and many conditions will vary so a blanket statement beyond that I am not comfortable with, I would say use common sense and remember energy decreases by the square so adding a little extra distance is worth a lot.....also a static spot vs. a moving spot such as in the case of a laser show that exploits persistence of vision to make images/cartoons will spread the energy out and reduce the exposure duration per area, so again NO specular reflections and don't stand and stare at a static spot that common sense would suggest is too bright and 99% of the time you will be ok, but I can not guarantee the other 1% of the time and if you want to then do the research and the math but know it's a highly variable deal in the real world so safety glasses when in any doubt is the rule.
 
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Snecho

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Snecho, it's obvious that you don't have a Thor M2, as even a few members asked for a pic or two going on 2 months..
Hear me out:unsure: your not a bad kid and just a thought,,
I don't know if it's a money issue? age issue? or what not. If you can prove your at least of decent age, and have those Eagle safety glasses you claimed, I will chip in nicely towards a 1.6W 445 Thor M2 for you as they aren't that much money and maby one other member I can think of will also chip in.
Hoping the things I asked and one thing that will help the LPF..
Alot of new members have been posting about the proper use of safety glasses and it's getting very tiring answering over and over.
I don't know if you can make a "Sticky" to answer these question's or put it on your avatar or just be the answer guy to these glasses questions..
Hey GSS, sorry for conveying untrustworthiness in my messages. I only ordered the Thor about a month ago though, not two months.

In any event, I hope this straightens things out :)
image.jpegimage.jpeg

Thank you for the offer though, that was very, very kind of you!
Like I said, I was looking forward to do a full review on it, but, I screwed something up on the first one they sent me. They sent me another one for free but It appears to be defective, so now I have to contact them again. Also, I've been having some problems with the batteries and charger I got for it. So that's why I've been keeping it under wraps until everything is worked out. :)

Sorry for all the confusion.
 
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lordsmurf

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Found a recent related thread:
hxxps://laserpointerforums.com/threads/safety-goggles-for-looking-at-the-beam-not-the-dot-or-dot-reflection.105922/
Still doesn't answer all my questions, but I guess it'll have to be good enough.

And a link here from that thread: hxxps://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/blue_light_hazard.html

This community isn't very helpful or friendly, and that's disappointing. I probably won't be sticking around. Some OT bickering even leaked into my conversation, and derailed the topic. Thank you for the eventual answers, RedCowboy, but I could have done without the snarky "we're not doctors" schtick, as I wasn't asking any medical questions, only laser safety distance questions.

(edit: Had to make links inert, forum rules are draconian. Aren't even allowed to link to other threads!? How dumb. Admin: Learn SEO. Not sure how to get "points", and really don't care.)
 
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RedCowboy

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There's a legal reason that I say nobody here can give medical advise and see a doctor if you have any concerns, it's not just for you but for any readers who might glean what could be construed as medical advise so you can thank the A-holes who exploit peoples good nature for underhanded gain for that needed disclaimer.

Enjoy and remember to always lase safely. :)


p.s. Here's your linked thread, just use the link icon.
 
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